The No Goofy Zone Discernment Ministry

The No Goofy Zone is a discernment ministry for saved born again Christians and all who are seeking the truth.We expose non-biblical trends in the church. We are making material available to advance understanding of issue's which endanger Christianity. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit.

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Former drummer for Gary Lewis and The Playboys and The Coasters. Tim has also played with Paul Baloche, Lincoln Brewster, Darlene Zscech and Hillsongs, Jeff Fenholt, SteveCamp among others. Tim founded The Simply Agape Project in 2001 to get free Christian music to the troops. Recordings have been made with Tim, and friends Alex Acuna, Abe Laboriel SR, Justo Almario,Steve Camp , Jared Ming and some wonderful Independant Christian artists.The Somebody Brave CD also features words of encouragment to the soldiers from Pastors, Moms, Dads, and Lt Col Brian Birdwell a Pentegon 9/11 survivor Tim is married to Donna Wirth and has four children Alan 25,Steven 23, Brittany 22, Bethany 21. Tim has played in numerous churchs as well as shows on TBN. Tim has also performed on JCTV on the show Generation Worship featuring worship leader Jared Ming. Tim has a book published worldwide titled "Pass The Plate And Let Us Prey" (My Search For Black and White Christianity in a Gray Nation)

Thursday, July 27, 2006

The tithe is it for today?

Great new article from my friend Mike at Let Us Reason.
We should always give to help the poor and needy in our community.
We don't give to turn our churches into the next Christian Disneyland as Rick Warrren has taught many foolish undiscerning pastors.
here is the article-
http://www.letusreason.org/Biblexp30.htm

6 Comments:

Anonymous Andrew said...

So I checked out this article open to hear and look at something I'm not that great at, tithing. As a bonus I don't really know much about Rick Warren (other than as the author of Purpose Driven Life) and from your post it sounds like he needs help too.

But wait, the article had nothing to do with him. It was a great article and I enjoyed hearing some more about tithing, but what confused me is: What does this article have to do with Rick Warren?

I decided to investigate. Me, "Let's see Google: Rick Warren ENTER. Hey a Wikipedia article, hmm not known as the stand alone source of all knowledge but it is fairly accurate and will serve its purpose." As I read through the article one certain paragraph stuck out to me. It reads:

"Rick and Kay Warren have donated 90% of their income through three foundations: Acts of Mercy, which serves those infected and affected by AIDS, Equipping the Church, which trains church leaders in developing countries, and The Global PEACE Fund, which fights poverty, disease, and illiteracy [7]. Warren no longer takes a salary from Saddleback and repaid all of his salary from the last 25 years back to the church, due to the success of his book sales. He now "reverse tithes" meaning giving away 90% of his salary and living off of 10%.
Warren considers Bill Hybels, Billy Graham, Peter Drucker, and his own father (who was himself a Baptist pastor and an SBC missionary), to be among his mentors."

The thing is it concerns me when a name, someone's name, is attached to an evil so easily. It especially concerns me when there isn't much justification to go along with it. Show me an article that honestly looks at the person and you are just on the start to the asssociation that was so easily made in the post. Names are very serious business read The Crucible, take hints from the Chinese culture, or even investigate how important names are in the Bible.
Sorry to change the topic. It was really a good read. It speaks for itself, and I just couldn't let the Rick Warren sentence go untouched.

1:35 AM  
Blogger Tim Wirth said...

Andrew thank you for your comments. It sums things up. Listing Peter Drucker and Bill Hybels as mentors sums up my statement.
These guys are (and were in Druckers case) businessmen who use Christianity as a tool for wealth and fame.
I do not consider Warren a pastor but he is a genius at duplicating himself and networking.
Rick would have done great in Amway.
Thanks for mentioning Hybels here is another guy who has built big buildings that appeal to the flesh.
As far as donating income Bill and Melinda Gates do this as well. Rick gives to Rick and his companies he set up.
Thanks for all your points and making my point for me
Tim Wirth

10:39 AM  
Anonymous Andrew said...

Ok the point of that comment was completely missed. You basically just added more names to the list you had going. I understand if you disagree with many people on the long list of Christian leaders, but please don't twist my words and undermine my work. You can make your own points without trying to change mine, and I will respect you and listen to what I might have to learn from you.

As far as "another guy who has built big buildings that appeal to the flesh" my counterpoint would be King Solomon had the temple, church history had cathedrals. God's kingdom is vast and beautifull. A church doesn't have to be minimalistic to honor God. It can be excellent, beautiful, artistic, and large like the living God is.

Thanks for the fresh perspective I get from you. I believe disagreement can be healthy. It chanllenges, changes, and strengthens worldview.

12:19 AM  
Blogger Douglas said...

As a bonus I don't really know much about Rick Warren (other than as the author of Purpose Driven Life) and from your post it sounds like he needs help too.

Andrew, Rick Warren is a false teacher deceiving millions of people around the world and he is making a fortune off his fradulent teachings. He will give an account to God for what he has done and is doing. He lets the whole world know about all the great and wonderful things he does himself, he constantly blows his own trumpet and that about him tithing 90%, well he let everyone know about that and the foundations he set up. The person that runs that ad for Rick Warren on Wikipedia put that info there because Rick Warren broadcasted it all over the world in the first place.

Here are some articles and essays and audio for you to work through to get to the bottom of Rick Warren's insidiously deceptive works, so deceptive even he does not know how deceptive he is, shocking really:

http://www.abrahamic-faith.com/James/Rick-global-peace-plan.html7. HOW IS IT FINANCED?

Rick Warren's Global P.E.A.C.E. Plan's initial funding is generated by the royalties he receives from his book The Purpose Driven Life and tithes and offerings from his Saddleback Church in California. He also promotes reverse tithing.[32] Additional income is derived from his companion books and study guides and the 115,000 pastors who subscribe to his Pastors.com Rick Warren Ministry Toolbox and pay to download his sermons. However, this is just seed money; his Global P.E.A.C.E. Plan will require funding vastly exceeding what has currently been financed, if it is to transform every nation on earth.. To fully succeed, Rick Warren is going to have to forge alliances with Heads of State, Corporations, and Non-Government Organizations (NGOs).

I am utterly astonished that someone could write a book saturated with false teachings, promotion of false teachers, false translations, and even blueprints for how to practice psychology, then validate his own righteousness by declaring repeatedly how he is going to give 90% of the royalty income from his sales back to the church, charities, and of course, to finance his Global P.E.A.C.E. Plan. Rick Warren has made his fortune by “causing my little children to stumble,” deceiving 30 million readers of his Purpose Driven Life book, leading astray 20,000 members of his own church, 400,000 church leaders he has trained, 20,000 churches in a host of denominations and 165 countries, which he hopes to turn into purpose-driven countries under the banner of his Global P.E.A.C.E. Plan.[33]

We also constantly hear of how modestly Rick Warren lives. This reminds me of the Vatican. The Pope isn’t rich; the wealth is held by the Roman Catholic Church. However, as the absolute sovereign authority over its assets and distribution of funds, does he need to technically own anything? Likewise, Rick Warren has absolute authority over Saddleback Church and his Global P.E.A.C.E. Plan. He is simply taking money from one pocket and putting it in the other; it is still in the same pair of pants. It would not matter if Rick Warren gained the whole world from the sales of his book and gave all of it to finance his Global P.E.A.C.E. Plan, if his fortune was made from a book of false teachings. Warren should refund the money from his books sales, and his publisher Zondervan needs to remand and recall his book! Further, Christians and churches who bought his book should strongly consider having a bonfire and pitching his books into it, as the early Christians did in Acts 19:19 when they burned all of their magic arts scrolls.

Rick Warren has rejected correction and refused to make restitution -- the fruit of repentance. Even if there were such a person as “America's pastor,” Rick Warren has not met the first essential criteria: being faithful to God's Word. As a pastor, he must meet the requirement of an elder, to be able to rightly divide the truth. (For elder qualifications, see 1 Timothy 3.2-7 and Titus 1: 6-7, and the Pastor is Master, Isn't He? article[34]. A true elder must defend, contend and confess The Faith without equivocation or waffling. It is bad enough that much of Warren’s income was received from unsuspecting non-believers who could not discern the falsehood of his teachings. Even worse, he has plundered from tens of thousands of church treasuries and individual Christians who bought his book.

Some prominent Christian leaders who should know better say that before Jesus ever criticized anyone, he always found something good to say about them. This is inaccurate. Jesus did this with individual churches, as with five of the seven churches in Revelation, but he never did this with a false teacher. Neither did any of the prophets of the Old Testament nor any of the Apostles in the New Testament. NEVER! Christian leaders who defend Rick Warren think that giving profits to charity somehow sanctifies Warren's false teachings in the book which generated the royalties. Furthermore, even if the income came from honest gain, tithing should be voluntary. Warren forces members of his own church to sign tithing covenants,[35] putting Christians back under the law. The Apostle Paul condemned the Galatian church for doing that.

Paul teaches that we are NOT to give out of compulsion, but this doesn't stop Rick Warren. It would be bad enough were he to require this only of his own megachurch, but he trains leaders in his Purpose Driven Church franchises to do the same.

This still doesn’t take into account the destruction left in Warren's wake in all of the churches who paid for his Purpose Driven Life book and materials, to facilitate transition from a New Testament church model to Purpose Driven church polity. Many members of these churches did not just lose $20 paying for one of Warren's books, they lost their church or were purpose-driven out. In many cases, these were senior members or charter members who had helped build their church. I wonder what all those saints forced out of their churches thought when Rick Warren had the audacity to state the following on Larry King Live on CNN:

“One is a reformation of the church in America and the other is a return of civility to society when people who disagree can still get along and like each other even if they disagree.”[36]

For documented case studies of the consequences for Christians who opposed Rick Warren's teachings and refusal to sign his covenants, see Spiritual Euthanasia[37]

Also see Bob DeWaay Redefining Christianity, Understanding the Purpose-Driven Movement, 21st Century Press, 2006, and Dr. Noah Hutchings, The Dark Side of the Purpose Driven Church, Bible Belt Publishing, Southwest Radio Church, p. 8. 2005.

Rick Warren tells us how much he is giving to the church and repeatedly advertises this in the market place. So let's see what the Lord commands regarding this practice:

"Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. Therefore when thou doest [thine] alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly." Matthew 6:1-4





As bad as it is how Rick Warren made his fortune in the first place, as bad as it is that he touts it before men, as bad as it is what happened to a host of saints who resisted his teachings and takeover of churches, and as bad as it is that the unholy leaven of Warren's teachings has virtually if not permanently taken over once God-fearing sound doctrine churches, imagine the greater consequences for using the income from his false teachings and spiritual abuse of authority to finance components of his Global P.E.A.C.E. Plan outlined in this document. Warren may succeed with his Global P.E.A.C.E. Plan; after all, he has guaranteed it. But what will be the cost? Who will pick up the pieces of the dismembered Christians left chewed up by the propeller in the wake of his Global P.E.A.C.E. Plan once it is consummated? There is no room at Rick Warren's table for those Christians he calls “resisters.” His co-conspirator Dan Sutherland of Church Transitions calls leaders who oppose or question this movement 'Sanballats,'[38] but there will be room at the table for all true saints who will take their place when they sit at the Wedding Supper of the Lamb. See Matthew 26:26-29 and Revelation 19:19

5:38 AM  
Blogger Douglas said...

Oppps, I posted too soon and forgot to check the links.

Here they are:

Church Growth Movement

7. HOW IS IT FINANCED?

5:49 AM  
Anonymous Andrew said...

Thanks for the post Douglas. I read it all, but I don't have time to dive into the links right now. Do you have any more resources on the P.E.A.C.E. Plan? That part intrigued me. I really don't know a lot about Rick Warren, and I have yet to read Purpose Driven Life. Which is why I'm glad to see some different resources about him. Honestly I don't have the authority to argue for or against him. All I can raise is a question. Thanks for giving your answer.

1:05 PM  

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