The No Goofy Zone Discernment Ministry

The No Goofy Zone is a discernment ministry for saved born again Christians and all who are seeking the truth.We expose non-biblical trends in the church. We are making material available to advance understanding of issue's which endanger Christianity. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit.

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Location: Piqua, Ohio, United States

Former drummer for Gary Lewis and The Playboys and The Coasters. Tim has also played with Paul Baloche, Lincoln Brewster, Darlene Zscech and Hillsongs, Jeff Fenholt, SteveCamp among others. Tim founded The Simply Agape Project in 2001 to get free Christian music to the troops. Recordings have been made with Tim, and friends Alex Acuna, Abe Laboriel SR, Justo Almario,Steve Camp , Jared Ming and some wonderful Independant Christian artists.The Somebody Brave CD also features words of encouragment to the soldiers from Pastors, Moms, Dads, and Lt Col Brian Birdwell a Pentegon 9/11 survivor Tim is married to Donna Wirth and has four children Alan 25,Steven 23, Brittany 22, Bethany 21. Tim has played in numerous churchs as well as shows on TBN. Tim has also performed on JCTV on the show Generation Worship featuring worship leader Jared Ming. Tim has a book published worldwide titled "Pass The Plate And Let Us Prey" (My Search For Black and White Christianity in a Gray Nation)

Monday, October 27, 2014

New Series on the Holy Ghost movie, False signs and wonders and much more

False signs and wonders series on Bill Johnson, Holy Ghost movie, Heidi Baker, Ken Copeland , Beth Moore, Dan Bohi. and a ton of biblically solid information.

False Signs and Wonders Series.

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Friday, February 28, 2014

James 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

I recently found this post from a friend and sister in the Lord named Wendy I thought it was a good way to open up this article

Wendy-I found the following statement ( thought could share) to be interesting and it seemed to fit what we seem to face today. This is from Tom Bradford's Judges Bible Study (http://www.torahclass.com/old-testament-studies/40-old-testament-studies-judges/332-lesson-17-chapter10-11 ): "It is interesting that the wording the Bible used to introduce each of the cycles of rebellion and apostasy that precipitated the need for a Judge was usually the same: “The people of Israel did what was evil from God’s perspective”. From “God’s perspective” are the operative words. That is, there was quite a disconnect between how the people of Israel viewed their moral and spiritual condition and how God viewed it. I wonder if ever in mankind’s history people or a nation viewed their own actions as evil? I wonder if Israel ever thought that what they were doing (while they were doing it) was wicked and ungodly? From their perspective they were doing right and good; but all too often from God’s perspective they were doing wrong. Humans have an amazing capacity to deny and rationalize our bad behavior, or to even attribute to God things that we do, even though He specifically prohibits them. And the way that happens is by slowly replacing or mixing God’s Word with our own thoughts and opinions. If a lie is told often enough and loud enough, eventually it is taken as truth and few even challenge it. Once a tradition (Christian, Jewish, or secular) is practiced long enough, how it came into being and what it actually symbolized, and whether it’s in harmony with God’s will is no longer questioned. Those who might be so bold as to challenge established doctrines and customs are seen as troublemakers, people who are creating disunity, even heretics. So there is always great peer pressure in communities and congregations of people to keep quiet, put your brain in neutral, and just go along with the flow."


Interesting things always happen on Facebook. Recently a group I am part of was mocked by a page called Concerned Nazarene Memes. The interesting thing is the page is run by pastors and leaders most are in the Nazarene denomination. Brannon Hancock created the main picture when you get to the page. He is a worship pastor in Xenia, Ohio. The interesting thing is that when the admin posts pictures under the name Concerned Nazarene Memes the idenity is hidden. The admin indenity is hidden as well. The admin password could be shared by a number of people. Interesting that Brannon would make this comment on his other site "Sacramental Nazarene" which is a site in my opinion that is dedicated to bringing the Nazarene denomination into fellowship and maybe even membership with the Roman Catholic church.We know some Nazarene pastors have converted to Roman Catholic faith and practice  or Orthodox Faith which is pretty much the same in faith and practice they just split from Rome centuries ago but still foloow similar practice as this man did after attending a Nazarene college.

 He who wrote an article Sola Scriptura.
Webmaster's Note: Father John Whiteford is a former Nazarene Associate Pastor who converted to the Orthodox Faith soon after completing his B.A. in Religion at Southern Nazarene University in Bethany, Oklahoma. He first encountered Orthodoxy as a result of his involvement in the local Pro-Life (Rescue) movement, which also included Father Anthony Nelson and several of his parishioners. After over a year of searching the Scriptures and the writings of the early Church; and through the love, prayers and patience of Father Anthony and the Parishioners of St. Benedicts, Fr. John was received into the Holy Orthodox Church. When he wrote this article he was serving as a Reader at St. Vladimirs in Houston, Texas and is continuing his studies. He has since been ordained a Priest and serves St. Jonah of Manchuria Orthodox Church (Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia), in Houston, Texas.



Brannon Hancock in my opinion is leading the way in trying to get the Nazarene denomination to move in the direction of Roman Catholic faith and practice by leading up the FB page Sacramental Nazarenes. Many leaders from the Nazarene denomination are members of this group from current to former General Superintendents and down the food chain.
To make up you own mind on Brannons discernment and spiritual sense of things you may want to read this article written by my friends and brother in the Lord Manny Silva.
http://reformednazarene.wordpress.com/2013/07/25/sacramental-nazarenes-blaspheming-the-lord-now/

Brannon through one side of his mouth says this-
Brannon Hancock So we hear... So be it. Nothing behind closed doors here. If we're off base, there is transparency and accountability for us.end comment

So why be a part of a group that has no transparency like Concerned Nazarene Memes where the leadership hide?
I know they are fearful of what our group may do but Brannon is a Nazarene in Ohio so Im not sure why he would be in any fear what so ever.
Another person involved is Brannon's cousin Evan Alba who is some sort of leader of something> Still trying to figure that out. Evan states.
 Evan Abla Whatever you do, don't be dishonest about who you are. I think that sends the wrong message. We have to be upright here. We can't let anything come between the fact that we love God and are committed to the sacramental life.

Evan bought this up after Concerned Nazarene was inflitrated by a person using a false idenity on Facebook who was part of a group Evan post on. The person using a false idenity acted like he was one of us for 3 months and was heartily behind our efforts and than he posted this. Of course the idenity was false and this person was from the Concerned Nazarene Memes group which Brannon , Evan another pastor James are all part of.
Here was Chucks post.

Chuck Hendershot Dear friends, I must share this with you. Last night I had a life-changing experience, one that has shaken me to my very core. In the midst of sleep last night I felt my heart strangely warmed. I thought that perhaps it may have been the hot wings I'd had for dinner, but no. Upon waking, the fire within my bosom did glow and persist until looking up unto heaven, I saw a ghostly figure--a woman dressed in blue, accompanied by the unmistakable aroma of roses, filling my bedchamber. My nocturnal visitor introduced herself, as if there were any doubt in my mind of who she was, as the Blessed Virgin Mary, our dear Lord's own mother, the very theotokos. She spoke to me in words so clear I could scarcely believe my ears. She explained to me our Lord's plan to evangelize the whole world through the Holy Catholic church, and asked me, with words so piercing and sincere, why I had been so critical of the Lord's work and his people. She explained to me that Dan Boone, Dan Bohi, Joel Osteen, Tom Oord, and even Brannon Hancock and Evan Alba, and others too many to mention, were not emergent heretics as I had been led to believe, but had been empowered to spread God's word of love and tolerance and sacrifice. She warned me that I should encourage Tim Wirth and Manny Silva to embrace all of humanity, and not to shun them, neither to rebuke them. As I listened to her words, I felt as if the weight of the whole world were lifted from my very soul. But then she spoke the most unbelievable blessing unto me. She told me that she had known of my hidden feelings all of my life, and that there was no shame in my sexuality. She said, with words dripping with loving kindness, that God had made me gay from the beginning, and that my feelings as a teenager for my youth pastor were perfectly normal--even blessed. She told me that there was a man out there for me, and that together we would enlarge the Kingdom of God. I awoke with such amazement, not unlike Adam in the freshly created dew of Eden, that I sprang from my bed and rushed to the nearest Catholic parish, where I confessed my sins are detailed my vision to the dear Father Mackenzie, who has instructed me in the rosary and the discipline of the One True Faith. I look forward to sharing my feelings and my beatific vision to as many as will hear, and I look forward also to the Season of Lent and the celebration of our Lord's death and resurrection beginning next week. Hail Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. end of post

The not so funny thing is these are the guys occupying pulpits and leading music in churches. Yes and I realize its because the time we are in. Marsha West has posted some articles on unregenerate pastors that you may want to read.

The interesting thing about the liberal mind set is they scream for tolerance why they themselves are the most intolerant. The liberal church also states they "Love Jesus" while they scream "We hate your word in scripture."

Evan in one side of his mouth states this
"Evan Abla That's why we have to be careful how we handle folk who are so vehement in their disagreement. It really is sad. Nonetheless, God is good and is reconciling all of creation to himself through Christ, just as Colossians 1 suggests.

Evan Abla "In all seriousness, I wish we could talk, listen, and agree to disagree. Instead, we are maligned, defamed, and accused of being heretics."

Than out the other side of his mouth Evan states this describing a Nazarene elder who's only fault was to be part of our group. "Evan Alba Oct 26 "Henderson's a squatchy pile of flaccid filth. How's that for name calling. If had anything positive to say he would've said it years ago, but alas he has nothing good to say." end quote
I challenge anyone out there to give just one example of where myself or Manny Silva ever refered to someone in these terms
Of course the liberals dont like the word "heresy" even though its a biblical term Brannon actually forbids its use on his page. Which is of course is his right.
The person Evan referred to Mr Henderson is always a gentleman but this is the kind of backlash you get from liberals who have no tolerance for an opposing position.

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Wednesday, November 20, 2013

The Debate or is it?

Well its not really a debate anymore but some still ask the question. Did God create the world in 6 days. Most reasonable people would say yes. However the debate is that science gets in the way. I dont really think that it does. The bigger problem is that the people throwing out the question don't really want to know the truth. They just want to try and disprove what you say. Because the question has been answered over and over again. I used to debate evolutionists back in the 90's in Ohio. Stopped doing it because it lacked bearing any fruit, because no matter what you said they already had a preconceived notion of what the answer should be. In spite of any biblical or scientific proof. Because you see they just like to argue. So anyway I stopped debating. Here is in my opinion is what the real problem is. I think the problem is accountability to a God who knows more than we do. People so much want to try to bring God down to their level and mentality. Yes Jesus did become human but at the same time He was and always will be Fully God. Its a matter of accountability. If God is smarter than us we are therefore accountable to Him because in fact He created us.So in my mind its really an accountability factor. Another reason I stopped debating is because the person I was often debating did not believe the Bible to be the word of God without error. Some how God (or man) messed up in certain parts but He happened to get the part about salvation right. Really how do you prove that? If there is true error in the scripture how can we trust any of it? And what parts are true and what parts are not is debated and mulled over by such people as Tom Oord or Karl Giberson who in my opinion is what could be called" useful idiots" for lack of a better phrase. I still think the real problem is some people can't seem to understand God unless they bring Him down to their level. A infinite mind versus a very finite mind. Not a good place to start.
It surprise's me how many of these men and women say they Love Jesus but scream They Hate Gods Word.
To say that humans and God are different is the ultimate understatement. No wonder we have a hard time understanding Him. Thankfully, he has overcome our limitations by revealing himself to us". Jesus, according to the Bible, is God’s ultimate means of revealing himself to us (Hebrews 1:1-3). The Gospels make it clear that Jesus is fully God (John 1:1) - so much so, that they refer to Jesus as the Word of God - that ultimate message that proceeds from his mouth. God’s thoughts in human form, if you like. The indivisibility of God and Jesus is a claim that Jesus also made about himself (John 10:30). The religious authorities he lived amongst knew what he was saying and wanted to kill him for it (John 8:48-59).
But at the same time the Bible reveals that Jesus is completely human - being born into a human body, growing up and learning as a child, suffering and struggling just like all human beings do. That’s what makes him such a perfect intercessor between God and man (Hebrews 4:15,16). So the Bible lays these two truths side by side (like in Romans 1:3,4) and expects us to accept them both. I have heard many clever illustrations that are supposed to explain this duality of Jesus’ nature (a trinity, when you consider that the Bible holds the Holy Spirit to also be indivisibly God, and yet separate) that point to our inability to comprehend this mystery because of our limited understanding - like the idea that a circle and triangle appear to be completely different shapes in two dimensions; one cannot be another. However, they can be brought together in three dimensions to form a cone (a circular base; a triangular body, but one shape). But the truth is that it is beyond us.
But on to the creation question. The folks reading this know what question was asked so here is the answer as it has been taught to me and both scripture and science agree with it .
Lets make one thing clear before we even start.The age of the earth, as determined by man’s fallible methods, is based on unproven assumptions, so it is not proven that the earth is billions of years old.This unproven age is being used to force an interpretation on the language of the Bible. Thus, man’s fallible theories are allowed to interpret the Bible. This ultimately undermines the use of language to communicate.Evolutionary scientists claim the fossil layers over the earth’s surface date back hundreds of millions of years. As soon as one allows millions of years for the fossil layers, then one has accepted death, bloodshed, disease, thorns, and suffering before Adam’s sin Most people are going to stop right here even though they have no true answers (infallible or conclusive). The Bible makes it clear that death, bloodshed, disease,  and suffering are a consequence of sin. (There's that word that so many except certain exceptions hate to use). I think there is a confusion about light and the actual sun which was created later in the week. Light was created on the first day so now the word of God speaks in Gen 1:3 the result is light., the energizing of the vast cosmos through the marvelous electromagnetic force system which maintain all structure's and process's in matter. These varied  energies not only include visible light, but also the shortwave radiations(ultra violet wave, x rays etc.) and the long wave radiations (infrared, radio waves etc..), as well as heat, sound, electricity, magnetism, molecular interactions etc.. Light the most basic form of  energy is mentioned specifically, but its existence necessarily implies the activation of all form of electromagnetic energies. The existence of visible light  prior to the establishment of the sun.moon and stars (Gen 1:6) emphasizes the fact that light (energy) is more fundamental than light givers. God could have easily have created waves of light energy as he could construct material bodies which generate light energy. The first id direct (since God is light), the second indirect. On the first day God had said "Let there be light". Now he says Let their be lights (Gen 1:14) Light energy was activated first, but now great masses of material (part of the" earth" elements  created on the first day) were gathered together in one of the firmaments or spaces of the cosmos-the space beyond the water's above the space adjacent to the earth.These great bodies were set burning in complex chemical and nuclear reactions, to serve as light givers for the earth.
These answers were given a longtime ago by people a lot smarter than me. And thats the end of this debate. People can choose to believe what they want. When we read scripture we need the Holy Spirit to even understand that. So it is really not by our own smarts at all. We cant take credit for even that,

Tuesday, September 03, 2013

Is Our Music In Church Pleasing To The Lord?

Well to answer that is easy but you will have to do that yourselves because you are the best judge of your individual church. Before I start the article I want to share a bit of background and information about myself. God has been very good to me in my career and jobs I have done in my live. Funny what’s out on the internet about you these days though. Someone earlier asked me if I worked in a lumberyard. Funny I had to laugh because I have never worked in a lumberyard in my life. Crazy what’s out on the net about people. I’ve been playing music all my life and have been blessed. I started out in the secular industry playing with Gary Lewis and The Playboys as well as many other famous oldies acts such as Chuck Berry, The Coasters, Steve Marriot and many others. I also come from a family of bakers and chefs. I was a chef as well as managed some full service places. My nephew Justin is a chef as well at Disney’s Grand Floridian Hotel. I stopped actively touring when I had my first child so I could be at home with my children to see them grow up. I still stayed active playing in theater pit orchestra as well as regular orchestra work. I also have a ministry to the troops which we get them free music; we are expanding that this year to help the Wounded Warriors project to get them free music as well. I recently went to London as well as Paris in April of this year and hope to get free music to our allies as well. I’ve been blessed to be taught and record and produce with the world’s best musicians. I received my credentials as a worship leader from Integrity Music's Worship Institute. I also am deeply involved with the travel and cruise industry and have an audience of about 40 thousand who read my articles on how to save money. I’ve been blessed to go on a number of cruises as well as have traveled most of Europe with my ministry. Funny again what’s out there on the web about people. But being in ministry you expect that and if your not getting attacked you probably should check your faith. I’ve debated Richard Abanes online as well as had shots taken at me from a spoof site called Biblical Nazarenes and unbeliever Greg Horton. Horton reflects the fact that there are unbelievers in the pulpit. Greg Horton makes no bones about being an unbeliever and was actively doing radio with Nazarene leader and pastor Jon Middendorf on a show called Wired Parish. Horton also taught at Jon Middendorf’s church. This should not surprise anyone since there are still many unbelievers in the pulpit today in the Nazarene denomination as well as the rest of the Body of Christ. So again nothing should surprise us and I really don’t have time to fight battles with unbelievers anyway. Ok so on to music in the church. I still play music in church as well and was researching a song called "In the secret” I want to know you more. I broke out my old WOW worship CDs which are now pretty dated. I listened to Sonicflood’s version of the song and was amazed at how much the hook sounded like a Spin Doctors song. Now I enjoy the Spin Doctors drummer and music but can’t we in the church do better at being inspired by the Holy Spirit instead of the culture? I also listened to a Maranatha Praise band song and it was a direct ripoff of both American Band by Grand Funk and Hot Blooded by Foreigner. Now again I don’t hate certain rock groups or anything like that but church, can’t we do better? Its a matter of history that the church used to set the standard for the world’s culture. Now it’s exactly opposite. And they are usually poor ripoffs. We know from the Bible that Cain did not present a sacrifice that God honored or accepted. Is there any hint in scripture when God no longer accepts the music we sing to Him during the week? Yes, it details this in the book of Amos. Amos 5:21-23 "I hate, I despise your feast days, And I do not savor your sacred assemblies. Though you offer Me burnt offerings and your grain offerings, I will not accept them , Nor will I regard your fattened peace offerings. Take away from Me the noise of your songs, For I will not hear the melody of your stringed instruments. Amos 6:5-7 Who sing idly to the sound of stringed instruments, And invent for yourselves musical instruments like David; Who drink wine from bowls, And anoint yourselves with the best ointments, But are not grieved for the affliction of Joseph. Therefore they shall now go captive as the first of the captives, And those who recline at banquets shall be removed. (note-The ruin of Joseph may refer to the societal disintegration in Israel, or to the effects of the impending judgment.) This could also be in line with Gods judgment on His church which has strayed far from Him. There are many factors to address here. We know that Cain’s sacrifice was not acceptable to God because it was not the right sacrifice. But in Amos’ day we see God not even accepting the right sacrifice because God’s people had their priorities out of line. Now the current praise and worship movement has only become a thing popularized in the 90's by companies such as Integrity music which makes a ton from all the worship seminars they teach all over the world. Integrity also bought out a bunch of world famous musicians such as Alex Acuna and Abe Laboriel SR to pair them up with their contracted worship leaders to give their tapes STAR power. Now I do believe that Integrity's heart was in doing the right thing. But was it the biblical way to do things? We now have salaried praise and worship leaders as a result in many churches across the world. Salaries range conservatively from 28 to 30 thousand per worship leader. Most are paid around 45-50 much more in the mega churches where responsibilities are often a very big load. Most medium level churches usually just need the leaders to put together a 20-30 minute set of songs. Usually practice is about 1 hour per week plus a run through before service. Most rehearsals include songs we have been playing forever because pastors are often afraid of making the congregation learn something new (this puts the congregation into a compromising level of laziness as well). Plus we have been feed the unholy mantra of Rick Warren who chooses not to honor God through music because of not wanting to offend unbelievers who of course do not understand what it is to worship God through music. I know from experience that most medium level churches (like the one I currently attend) have poor practice habits with singers rarely practicing with the band. And then there are people allowed on the platform with little to no talent. (Not talking about my church here where most musicians and singers are pretty good at what they do). There are however many exceptions where at the Sunday night service people just come up and sing, some who do not attend practice. Does the Bible state what level the musicians and singers need to be at? What was acceptable to God is plainly listed in the Old Testament. David was a skilled musician. And the Levites (the musicians and singers) were skilled at their craft as well not just hobbyist. By employing professional musicians (modern day Levites) you fulfill the principles established by King David when he formed the praise teams for the temple in I Chronicles 25. Let's consider King David's discourse with Ornan over a plot of land for an altar (see I Chronicles 21:24). David refused to accept Ornan's free gift of land for an altar of sacrifice because David would not submit an offering to the Lord which cost him nothing. In fact he insisted upon paying Ornan the full market value of the land. It truly was a sacrifice of praise by the Davidic temple when they employed skilled musicians (see references to skilled musicianship in I Chronicles 25:6-7 and Psalm 47:7) to lead worship. Because it did cost them something (see I Chronicles 21:24), they could truly consider the sacrifice of praise to God an offering from the entire temple. Had the musicians not been compensated for their part in leading worship, the sacrifice of praise would have belonged to the musicians themselves. We also have writings in the New Testament on the subject of the church body providing for those who work on its behalf. Now we have condensed this all into only paying the worship leader. This is not the biblical method and if you choose this route of don’t have good musicians; perhaps lead worship by everyone singing to taped music. This will not only be cheaper in cost but everyone on a CD will show up on time and always sing and play in key. Ask yourself this question-Why has the church been pressured into having a live band which is more often than not distracting for one reason or another (lack of skill or showing off). Again I bring up the secular ungodly methods fed to the church in Rick Warren’s book "Purpose Driven Church". An undiscerning church who's main focus was to fill the seats instead of filling souls through the Holy Spirit bought this hook, line and stinker. Here are some direct quotes from Purpose Driven Church. Each week at Saddleback, we remind ourselves who we’re trying to reach. . . . Once you know your target, it will determine many of the components of your seeker sensitive service: music style, message topics, testimonies, creative arts, and much more. (253-254). “The style of music you choose to use in your services will be one of the most critical (and controversial) decisions you make in the life of your church. It may also be the most influential factor in determining who your church reaches for Christ and whether or not your church grows. You must match your music to the kind of people God wants your church to reach. . . . If you were to tell me the kind of music you are currently using in your services I could describe the kind of people you are reaching without even visiting your church. I could also tell you the kind of people your church will never be able to reach” (280-281). “At Saddleback we categorize songs according to target. Songs on the crowd list are appropriate when unbelievers are present (at our seeker services). Songs on the congregation list are songs that are meaningful to believers but wouldn’t make sense to the unchurched (we sing them at our midweek worship service)” (286). “Use more performed music than congregational singing in your service for seekers. Visitors do not feel comfortable singing tunes they don’t know and words they don’t understand. It is also unrealistic to expect the unchurched to sing songs of praise and commitment to Jesus before they become believers. That’s getting the cart before the horse” (291). “The style of preaching that I use in our seeker service is very different than the style I use to teach believers. . . . When preaching to believers I like to teach through books of the Bible, verse-by-verse. . . . Verse-by-verse, or book, exposition builds up the body of Christ. It works great when you’re speaking to believers. . . . But what about unbelievers who are not yet motivated to study Scripture? I do not believe verse-by-verse teaching through books of the Bible is the most effective way to evangelize the unchurched” (294). [By the way, Saddleback no longer has a mid-week believers’ service]. If you buy into this you are unfamiliar with scripture and what Gods word teaches as well as the sovereign work of the Holy Spirit. But again Rick does not rely on the Holy Spirit for guidance but relies on his own wits. Here is the kind of wisdom Rick Warren uses. James 3:14-16 "But if you have bitter envy and self–seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. For where envy and self–seeking exist , confusion and every evil thing are there." The real purpose that drives Rick Warren I believe is his own ambition. What about the Christian Music Industry we get our songs from. They are owned and controlled by the world who lets them sometimes uses the name of Jesus because at this point in time it is still profitable. We don’t see much evidence that CCM is influencing the world, but there is considerable evidence that the world is influencing CCM. “Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?” (2 Cor. 6:14) “Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever” (1 John 2:15-17). POINT: The worship team should play and sing skillfully for two reasons. 1) It is what God desires and deserves. 2) It can be an awful distraction to someone's worship experience when musicians make terrible mistakes. We want to keep the congregation in a vertical posture toward God's throne. The music serves as a vehicle for our praise offering to the creator of the universe, and thus it should not be a "blemished lamb." But how many of today's churches, in the good name of stewardship, use amateur volunteers or poorly compensated professional musicians to prepare the praise offering? David insisted on paying the full market value for his offering to God. Consider this, the sermon/message/teaching is a horizontal (i.e. man-to-man) event. The praise and worship is a vertical (i.e. man-to-God) event. God really tunes in when His people begin to praise Him. He actually inhabits the praise of His people (II Chronicles 5:12-14). May we seek to offer Him the unblemished sacrifice of praise that He desires and deserves. And may we offer it with a clean heart amidst musical excellence. NOTE: The principle of using only professional musicians remained in place as late as Mozart's day. The bottom line is that, as long as a Christian musician is a minister and not simply in it for the sake of entertaining, fame, etc., he/she should be supported by those who benefit spiritually from his/her ministry and those who will share in the credit, perhaps a church or group of churches, and individuals to wish to give freely as a "love offering" (Galatians 6:6). In fact, that being said, concerts should be paid for and hosted by churches, not ticket sales. Look at I Corinthians 9:18 about offering the gospel without charge. We have a lot to learn today with regard to the church and its relationship with true Christian musicians. When we choose to just use volunteers we should at least choose musicians and singers who are willing to sacrifice their time to give unto the Lord; not just take the scraps and leftovers who often crowd the platform in churches these days.

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Monday, August 19, 2013

Responding To Dan Bohi's "The Voice" By James Scullin

 Before reading this keep in mind that Dan Bohi has proclaimed in public that his definition of faith is not the same as what scriptures proclaims and teaches.

(Faith:Not Maybe, I Am, Part 1, at :50)
“I don’t like the definition of faith in Hebrews 11 because it doesn’t make sense to me, even though I know what it says.”
Mr. Bohi then goes on to give his definition of faith.  “ My definition of faith is a two letter word… :to”.  I believe we are being transformed from glory to glory.  We all experience glory…”
Mr. Bohi seems to be setting aside what Hebrews 11 teaches about faith, does not accept it, and substitutes his own special definition of faith.  Are we not to have faith in what God’s word says?



Responding to The Voice
Dan Bohi preached a message about living in the voice, available here: http://crossroadstabernacle.sermon.tv/Sunday_Morning_Messages/8543486 You may listen and verify what I report.
Some of what Dan says and the way he says it merely reflects a less formal presentation. That, in and of itself, is not necessarily a problem; stilted, over-formalized, and lifeless sermons bother me more. The content, not the delivery, of this sermon is what I will concentrate on. I will note my concerns in the order they occur in the message, if you wish to follow along.
Dan leads off by saying faith is hearing and obeying. He also states, correctly, that faith comes by hearing. Faith comes by hearing, it is not hearing. Obedience is an action taken because of faith. I do not disagree that if you are faithful, you will hear and obey; I disagree with calling these distinct things the same. This distinction can and should be made clear, even in a less formal presentation from a pulpit.
Dan compliments the congregation. He tells them while some churches require spoon feeding, they are ready for a buffet. Remember this statement when the sermon wraps up in another two hours.


We are told Moses became the greatest deliverer of the old covenant by hearing and obeying. Moses was the deliverer because he released the prophetic word of God. Dan does say these things were not things Moses could have dreamed up, but he tells us they did not show up until Moses released them with his voice. They did follow in time, after the proclamations by Moses, but it was God who released them, not Moses. Moses did not cause the plagues to happen by his voice.
Later, when the people fear God and tell Moses, they were content to get their information “second-hand,” we are told this desire for another person to be an intermediary is at the base of Judaism, Catholicism, and Protestantism. Really? Luther proclaimed the priesthood of believers.
In keeping with releasing the prophetic word, we are told the shrink back in Hebrews 10:38 means to fail to declare. Within context, the verse speaks of shrinking back from fear of what may happen to you if you live as a professing Christian. Not proclaiming your faith is more to the point, rather than not releasing God’s prophetic word.

Next, we are told it requires both the written word and the prophetic word to
glorify Christ. Keep in mind, the way prophetic word is used, this is saying it requires the
written word and prophets releasing miracles into being to glorify Christ. We are told of
Elijah releasing the word of God. We are told to hold on during trials because, if we do,
we will see greater power and miracles released.
Then, we are informed everybody has to have a history with God in the secret
place. We are told there are no shortcuts; people want shortcuts, they want laying on of
hands, but we have to have the time in secret. (This comes up again later.) Dan says
Jesus only had a ministry for three years because the rest of the time was spent in the
secret place with His Dad. Dan says Psalms 139 talks of God forming us in “the secret.”
Psalms 139:13 For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother's
womb. The unseen formation of the child in the mother’s womb is declared, not the
secret place Dan tries to propose this verse teaches.

Dan is not a medical doctor, nor am I, but the statements about healing a man
with a cancerous liver sound questionable. I do not deny God can or does heal liver
cancer, but consider the report. The man had 37 tumors on the liver and was expected
to die that week. When Dan touched him, his pain was gone. A follow up at the Mayo
clinic, showed no tumors remained. But then we are told a DNA scan was done on the
liver, and the DNA was different, the man had a new liver.
Questions: Why was a DNA scan done? Why on the liver itself and not a simple
cheek swab? Is it possible to have that many separate tumors on the liver
simultaneously? DNA can detect genetic markers that indicate predispositions to certain
cancers, did Dan mean to say these markers were gone? But again, why take the DNA
from the liver? A biopsy is the more likely procedure.
We are told if a Christian does not listen to God and obey, Satan can handle him
completely.

Dan intermingles 2 Chronicles 5:13 and Acts 2:2 He mistakenly says it is in Acts
where a cloud fills the house of the Lord. Acts refers to the house where the 120 were
waiting, not the house of the Lord.
We are told God wants to engrave His name on us. We are told Jeremiah 31:33
is the same as Isaiah 49:16 and 2 Corinthians 3:2-3. Judge for yourself.
Jeremiah
"But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,"
declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I
will be their God, and they shall be My people. Isaiah "Behold, I have inscribed you on the palms of My hands; Your walls are continually before Me. 2 Corinthians You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all men; being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. God writes on our hearts in the first text, He engraves us in His palms in the second, it is the Corinthians who are the letter in the third. Dan says God wants you to be a prophet and calls a woman in the crowd a prophet. Dan claims the Acts gathering started with the 520 witnesses to Christ’s resurrection and dwindled to 120 through people dropping out who were not willing to pay the price. I don’t find support for that in the first two chapters of Acts.
Dutch Sheets is mentioned to support the concept that Elijah was “birthing” the rain when he prayed for rain to return after a three year drought. We are told Elijah had his face between his knees (Scripture so states), but Dan includes he was grunting and groaning birthing the rain and embarrassing his assistant. I Kings 18:42-45 has the account. John 7:38 is tied in to further support birthing. We are reminded John says “He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his koy-lee-ah shall flow rivers of living water.” Dan replaces the word belly from the KJV with the Greek word koy-lee-ah and says it means womb. Koy-lee-ah is the root form of the word used. The actual word is koy-lee-ahs, κοιλίας. It occurs seven times in this exact form in the New Testament. In six of those times, it is rendered womb, as in Luke 1:15, "For he will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will drink no wine or liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while yet in his mother's womb.” The word is a generalized term which can denote any abdominal organ. Context determines its proper translation. It is disturbing that Dan will take Psalms 139 which does refer to womb, and make it a secret place, and here, where the clear translation does not fit his purpose, he will inject the word womb where it does not belong. The only purpose is to promote a Gnostic God willing to give secrets in secret places.

This was the end of the delivery of the message on the voice. What followed was a thirty minute talk on miracles that was supposed to be ten minutes. Dan mentions a service where “everybody” was healed. Later we find it was everybody that requested healing; still impressive sounding, but far different from what the first statement seemed to indicate. Several of the “healings” were people simply saying they were. There is a story of a lesbian being healed, but apparently not saved, or delivered from lesbianism. Remember Dan earlier said there were no shortcuts. Now, he relates doing an impartation service. Impartation is the belief some people are gifted to lay hands on others and give them the Holy Spirit and gifts for the five-fold ministry. The five-fold ministry refers to God raising up Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, and Teachers. If there are no shortcuts, why does Dan admit using them? Dan speaks of a twelve year old girl who he “saw” had been raped and abused. He says God was going to take away her memory of the abuse, she would not remember it. Later, she reportedly says she can’t remember her abuse. Yet why does she remember she was abused? Only the details are gone; that sounds like normal suppression of trauma. After all the talk of miracles someplace else, Dan comes in for a landing. He says the church he is in is like home, and it’s harder to do things at home. So, no healings will be attempted here. This church, that at the beginning was ready for a buffet, is told they need to get ready to be able to receive healings. This church, so like home, and ready for filling, is not as ready as a sinful woman, apparently left in her sin, to see healings. Dan says this church so ready for filling has a number of relational problems, some very fragile and hanging on by a thread. The call is limited to people having one of several generic issues guaranteed to be in a crowd of any reasonable size. The issues: Those going through a transition, those who have messed things up, those with bitterness, those afraid to step out in faith. Not that these are not real things to pray about and commit to God, but Dan comes in with a bang and leaves with a whimper. Dan ends with saying he doesn’t have a clue what he’s doing, he’s just trying to follow the voice. I’d say that means he’s following the wrong voice. end of article

My notes I went to as well as contacted the Mayo clinic since that number of tumors should be a record.
No record on hand of that situation . Keep in mind hippa law plays into this but that number of tumors would have been a record plus Dan has a bad record of coming clean with information on the medical miracles he performs. Take for instance when Dan claimed to have raised the dead.

  Claims of People Being Raised From The Dead
Quote: “I prayed for a man. My brother and I were in revival in Coffeeville, Kansas… and we prayed for a man who was dead… and he came back to life. I prayed for a man when I did a revival at the Roy Clark Theatre in Branson… and he came back to life. I prayed for a man in Olathe, Kansas at a Tuesday night revival service at 9:04 pm… and he came back to life. I haven’t raised 600, like Heidi and Roland.. but I’ve done three because I’m a Nazarene and a Nazarene always has three points.” (laughter)
Source (2:40: Faith, Not Maybe: I Am, Part 2)
His reference was to Heidi and Rolland Baker who are involved in missionary work in Africa, and whose blog is full of stories about miraculous raisings from the dead, instantaneous healings, visions of the Lord, and many signs and wonders.  This is very disturbing, not only the raising from the dead claim without any solid documentation to prove such a serious claim; but also his apparent connection with, or at least knowledge of the Bakers, whose outrageous claims of raising many from the dead include an example in this story (Back From The Dead), which as far as I know, has no substantive proof behind it.
In another sermon, (10:27) in which he also says he prayed for a lady and her leg grew two inches, Mr. Bohi said:
“We prayed three times in our services for people that had been raised from the dead.  I don’t feel comfortable about that, ‘cause I’m a Nazarene.  And I don’t like to disrupt people and I probably wouldn’t pray for them if I knew they were dead but these people were dead and they came back alive.”
Mr. Bohi is again claiming miraculous raisings from the dead.  Is there any documentation of these occurrences?  Is there any proof?  I myself could claim this, and would you not want evidence of such a miracle?  And again, his mention of the Bakers, implying that he knows them and approves of their ministry, is very troubling.  His favorable mentioning of Bill Johnson is also troubling to me.

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Monday, August 05, 2013

A Night In Dan's Glory Part 2

This is part 2 of a live Dan Bohi meeting I went to last week.I'm really curious with so much error I found in the meeting why our pastors don't have more discernment. Forget the obvious stuff like Dan blowing in to the mic and saying "Thank you for your presence God".
What does that even mean, the blowing in the mic part?
Was Dan imitating the wind the true Holy Spirit cause during Pentecost?
Was he saying a quick breath prayer?
Not sure at all what was the point of blowing in the mic.
Dan in my opinion is a salesman at this point nothing more nothing less.
Lets recap.
An hour of mantra style praise and worship to get people in the mood.
Than Dan making sure the room is set up to receive what he is selling by casting out fear.
Even though godly fear of the real God is a healthy and wise thing.
As Dan cast out fear (or what I would state as discernment) he stated how satan hinders before a great breakthrough. Ive heard that one before. "Fear can prohibit you hearing from the word of the Lord."

Wait lets stop there.
 In my opinion that was Dan saying that fear (ie discernment) will cause you to not hear the new truths, new revelations that Dan has for you.
This does not pertain to hearing God from His written word in scripture.
Than Dan states "I don't want to be in fear". Followed up by Dan's straight man Rob McCorkle( who is a pastor I think) crying out loudly "Praise God" to affirm what Dan is stating.
"We didn't come here for a experience we came here for an encounter".

To which I would ask an encounter with what?

Dan talks about Dan and his ministry for about an hour than pokes fun at the Nazarenes a bit when he is talking about slain in the spirit stating a couple of times "I'm not comfortable with that because I'm a Nazarene." Than Dan goes around setting people up to fall down at his command. Most all falls I saw were very controlled with hands going back and catchers letting people down easy.
No really power here not even demonic I would access its just staged by the power of suggestion by a guy they call a prophet. And like a bunch of trained circus animals people fall down.

Dan also stating" Balaam was the most accurate prophet in the Bible."
"Pastors don't invite me unless their desperate for the glory. More Dan.
Than Dan stating more about being to 480 churches in 52 states.
That one kinda stumped me I guess I cant count.
Dan calling down sickness on a group I belong to and the crowd roaring with approval and applause as Dan also states he wants our hands to freeze to our typewriters.
Guess it must be gradual kind of like the healing these guys are known to serve up.

Tell you what makes me sick. The lack of discernment a room full of pastors have.
Lets look at some other things Dan has stated.
From my friend and brother in the Lord Manny Silva and a article he wrote on Dan.


Archive for the ‘Dan Bohi’ Category

It have been  three weeks since my last post, due to family commitments and work.  I am currently working on two issues: The second is to answer a question from several friends from my email list recently, which essentially asks “how bad is it in the Church of the Nazarene, and is it worth staying or joining?”  But first, I have been working on a report on the teaching of Dan Bohi of which I have been very concerned about.  Noting that Mr. Bohi is very popular in many churches and districts, I advise all Christians to not look at numbers or any other result of his ministry- but to consider what he is teaching as it lines up with scripture.  That is the only measuring stick of truth for what a person teaches and preaches.  This may cause some friends to be angry at me, but the truth compels me more than a desire to keep friends.

One of the biggest traps we as Christians can fall into is to admire a teacher, pastor or preacher so much, that when that person falls into error in their teaching, we can easily overlook the error because of our admiration for that person.  This is very dangerous, and can lead to Christians neglecting their duty to “please God rather than please men” (Gal. 1:10).  It would be biblical negligence on my part to overlook error, whether because of my like for a person, or because many of my friends like that person and believe him to be sound.  I had to leave my old church because a very likeable pastor was in great error. The fact is we must always be completely loyal only to one: He who has no error.  If Paul commended the Bereans for scrutinizing what he preached, then we ought to do the same for all preachers, no exception.
I have written recently about the topic of judging, and we learn from scripture that judging is critical in the believer’s life, not only for their spiritual well being, but for the spiritual well being of their fellow believers.  If a teacher or preacher is in error, it must be refuted and corrected, regardless of the popularity of that teacher.  Often, that means publicly calling out that teacher or preacher for his errors, just as he publicly exposes many to those same errors.
There are now indications in various Nazarene and other churches of an infiltration of the signs and wonders phenomenon.  Pastors are associating themselves with, and learning from teachers like Bill Johnson of Bethel Church in California.  Bill Johnson has shown himself to be a false teacher, and yet undiscerning pastors and preachers are getting close to him, instead of following biblical guidance to stay away from those who teach a false gospel.
That leads me to my concern here.  Nazarene evangelist Dan Bohi has been under scrutiny for some time now by me, as well as others who have already written their opinions.  I have been looking at two things: his teaching, and his association with or favorable promotion of some false teachers.  My opinion has nothing to do with his personality or any other personal issues. We are to judge the teachings of all who teach within the body of Christ, and none are exempt from review, and none are exempt from correction if it is needed.
I have come to the conclusion that even though some of his preaching is good, there is too much error that needs to be pointed out publicly so others may take warning.  I have not contacted Mr. Bohi personally, nor do I intend to at this time, as others have asked him questions, and have not received specific answers.  However, I welcome any clarification or explanation of these concerns if anyone wishes to forward this to him.
I will alert you to several serious concerns for your consideration:
Example #1:  Claims of People Being Raised From The Dead
Quote: “I prayed for a man. My brother and I were in revival in Coffeeville, Kansas… and we prayed for a man who was dead… and he came back to life. I prayed for a man when I did a revival at the Roy Clark Theatre in Branson… and he came back to life. I prayed for a man in Olathe, Kansas at a Tuesday night revival service at 9:04 pm… and he came back to life. I haven’t raised 600, like Heidi and Roland.. but I’ve done three because I’m a Nazarene and a Nazarene always has three points.” (laughter)
Source (2:40: Faith, Not Maybe: I Am, Part 2)
His reference was to Heidi and Rolland Baker who are involved in missionary work in Africa, and whose blog is full of stories about miraculous raisings from the dead, instantaneous healings, visions of the Lord, and many signs and wonders.  This is very disturbing, not only the raising from the dead claim without any solid documentation to prove such a serious claim; but also his apparent connection with, or at least knowledge of the Bakers, whose outrageous claims of raising many from the dead include an example in this story (Back From The Dead), which as far as I know, has no substantive proof behind it.
In another sermon, (10:27) in which he also says he prayed for a lady and her leg grew two inches, Mr. Bohi said:
“We prayed three times in our services for people that had been raised from the dead.  I don’t feel comfortable about that, ‘cause I’m a Nazarene.  And I don’t like to disrupt people and I probably wouldn’t pray for them if I knew they were dead but these people were dead and they came back alive.”
Mr. Bohi is again claiming miraculous raisings from the dead.  Is there any documentation of these occurrences?  Is there any proof?  I myself could claim this, and would you not want evidence of such a miracle?  And again, his mention of the Bakers, implying that he knows them and approves of their ministry, is very troubling.  His favorable mentioning of Bill Johnson is also troubling to me.
Example #2: Does Not Like The Definition of Faith In Hebrews 11
(Faith:Not Maybe, I Am, Part 1, at :50)
“I don’t like the definition of faith in Hebrews 11 because it doesn’t make sense to me, even though I know what it says.”
Mr. Bohi then goes on to give his definition of faith.  “ My definition of faith is a two letter word… :to”.  I believe we are being transformed from glory to glory.  We all experience glory…”
Mr. Bohi seems to be setting aside what Hebrews 11 teaches about faith, does not accept it, and substitutes his own special definition of faith.  Are we not to have faith in what God’s word says?

Why was Dan Bohi allowed to keep on conducting a meeting after a statement like this. This shows the real problem which is a lack of discernment from pastors and leaders that state they are Christian.
Another quote from the same article.

Example #3: Is Mr. Bohi Promoting A Catholic Like Communion?
He posted on his Facebook page:  ““Adam and Esau gave up their birthright and authority for a meal. Are you willing to eat Jesus’s flesh and drink his blood to get yours back?”
This does not make any sense scripturally at all.  Mr. Bohi does not continue on and explain what he means by this.  We look at what Jesus said at the last supper with His disciples, and clearly he teaches us that it is a symbolic remembrance of His sacrifice.  This sounds more like what the Roman Catholic church teaches about transubstantiation.
In another sermon: “I’m going to do a kingdom impartation service tomorrow night at Atlanta Grace Point… So I’m going down to impart the kingdom faith so they can walk in the power of God.” (Walking In The Spirit: Part One).  Much of this kind of language is reminiscent of those who teach Kingdom Now theology.  Is this something also that Dan Bohi is leading many into?

From an article from my brother in the Lord Mark Fonner some insight into Dan's straight man Rob McCorkle.


The people around Dan Bohi, namely Rob McCorkle, are frankly a huge detraction from the message of Jesus Christ. During the Tri-State Awakening, I was at a meeting one morning of several other pastor’s and ministers with Dan. Rob was in attendance. The push was from Rob about signs and wonders. I initially blew this off as a bit of grandstanding on Rob’s part. Then the conversation somehow, (he was sitting to my left about three chairs away from me), changed to Todd Bentley. Mr. Bentley believes in planting his boot in people’s faces because the Holy Spirit tells him to. That is odd enough. But, Mr. Bentley had an affair on his wife with an assistant. She became pregnant. Mr. Bentley divorced his wife, (this was during a revival I might add) and eventually married this other woman. Needless to say, that the revival died and many good people were hurt, yet again, by a Christian minister in an adulterous relationship. Rob McCorkle defended Mr. Bentley saying that, and I quote, “That we cannot be too hard on him. He had a great deal of pressure and it was not a real moral failure.” Say what?
I thought at this point about walking out, (which today I regret not doing), then conversation changed and concluded. Since this time, I have been following Dan on email and his website. I have listened to the sermons I purchased from him and issues in them loom large.
This is a case of not listening on my part. I admit it. I saw the signs and heard the issues but was praying and hoping for a better outcome. I think that Dan is a good man with a compassionate heart. I have spoke with Dan personally about two key issues and he just does not see the issue. The issue is for me is that he is not concerned about it. With amount of negative press he is receiving, he should be. We can each learn from those who even oppose us. Something’s that are   good. Something’s that are not so good. He needs to listen. But, sadly, he has his inner circle that are advising him, and I must say badly. The Bible is clear to seek Godly counsel. end  quote

Rob permitting Todd Bentley. Just google the name Todd Bentley and see what demonic box of tricks  is opened up by Todd and the people around him.
Again this points to the lack of discernment among people who stand behind pulpits every Sunday and even on other days. Part of it is the hunger for revival and I agree with that. I would love to see a increased hunger for sharing the true gospel of Jesus Christ with a lost and dying world.
Afraid a lot of these folks want to see a revival with all kinds of stuff happening. A magic show. Acts of Illusion. And that's whats being served up here.
Go to your bibles and see what God says about those seeking signs and wonders. Go to the scripture and see what happens to those seeking the supernatural. The only supernatural encounter that ever happened outside of Gods sovereign will was Saul and the witch at Endor. And how did that turn out?

We don't sell spiritual gifts because they are not ours to give.
The Holy Spirit and His sovereign and perfect will decides who among the Body of saved believers gets what gift. Because He knows what they can handle and what would benefit the Body of Christ the most.

Don't fall for snake oil salesman the bible does not teach a great end-times revival. And the great Awakening will happen once the truly saved believers are raptured off the earth. Find a preacher who does not reek of pride and get into a good church that believes and teaches the Bible.

And most of all share the true gospel of Jesus Christ with a lost and dying world.



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Wednesday, July 31, 2013

A night in the glory? With Dan Bohi

1 Kings 8:10-13 New King James Version (NKJV) 10 And it came to pass, when the priests came out of the holy place, that the cloud filled the house of the Lord, 11 so that the priests could not continue ministering because of the cloud; for the glory of the Lord filled the house of the Lord.

 Many of my critics seem to think it was unfair to comment on Dan Bohi even though I have listened to hours of his tapes and videos. They seem to think it was unfair because I had not seen him live. So I took care of that last night and went to hear Dan speak at a church in Columbus Ohio. Here is my report on what went on and what was said.

The service started out with about an hour of music. The band was actually pretty talented musically and had many different ages on stage from young to older. Some of the music was God centered some was man-centered. The thing I took exception to was the mantra style of singing. It was almost like contemplative prayer to get you into an altered state of mind. They would take one or two verses and just repeat them over and over again.

 After all that Nazarene pastor Rob McCorkle took the stage to introduce Dan. He stated that "we honor a prophet with applause" and than made a appeal to pass the plate. I realize this is how Dan makes his living so......ok. But the appeal was made for lots of money. That aside I have heard of hand clap offerings for the Lord, but not applause for the prophet. Not sure how Daniel or the other of out Lord's true prophets would feel about that. Pretty sure they would pass.

 It was stated in this meeting by Dan:   "Sometimes you need to throw wisdom out the window".
 However, scripture states in Proverbs 9:10 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding."

 Then Dan called up anyone that had any fear.....to make sure that 'fear' was cast aside. Yes perfect love casts out all fear but a healthy fear of the Lord is a good thing because it shows respect to God.

This went on for quite sometime, and then Dan talked about himself, and his ministry for a good solid hour. Dan emphasized all that he had done, and yes, he did state a few times, that it wasn't him, but God.  However, his statements focused mainly on himself. 

He made a couple claims that really stuck out.
He claimed a lesbian had come to one of his meetings and got healed but she didn't get saved. Now when Dan expounded on this, he stated the lesbian had said she couldn't leave and she didn't know why.

Im just guessing, but perhaps she needed to get the true gospel of Jesus Christ shared with her. This was not mentioned so I don't know if the gospel was shared with her or not.

 Then a 12 year old girl claimed she had been healed of the bad memories of being abused. He stated the child stated to her parents "I cant remember the abuse". She remembered the abuse because she mentioned it but couldn't remember what happened. Hmm?

Then Dan went into his teaching.
In my opinion, Dan does not rightly divide the scriptures. His speech was on 1 Kings 13.  Dan was all over the place with this. This portion lasted for about 1/2 hour.

 During this time as well, Dan took shots at a group I belong to called Concerned Nazarenes. He prayed that sickness would strike us so we could not type and that our hands would freeze so we could not type. (Hmm that didn't seem to work Dan maybe you ought to call out to your god a little louder maybe he cant hear you?).

 Dan, complemented himself often, saying:  "Im preaching good.".  Which I thought was prideful.

 Dan said he was preaching new truth, new revelation from some 'god'. But scripture states in Jer 6:16 "Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein."

In my opinion, Dan's followers are stating this just like the Israelites did. Dan spoke a lot about 'the voice', 'new truth' and 'revelations'. He stated he preached a 'new truth' in Farmington New Mexico. The emphasis seemed to be on Dan's 'new truth' and 'revelation', not God's written word.

When Dan taught, he called the scriptures 'stories', not God's Word. That was interesting.

At times, Dan seemed to point out that he was in an actual communication with God on the spot, and they have/had a lot of conversations. God asked him to heal in certain ways and Dan replied basically "Do 'we' have to heal backs or knees again?"

 I don't know if Dan was being glib or just carnal, but do we question God? Keep in mind the fear of the Lord is the beginning of all wisdom.

 Dan talked a lot about being slain in the spirit. He stated he was not comfortable with it because he is a Nazarene. But, he still  does it. He also talked about how he slayed a rather large lady in the spirit and she knocked down 2 others in the process with one landing on a DS's lap. With the DS claiming he had not seen power like this before. I bet he hadn't.

 I was sitting in the second pew behind some of the band and in front of a lot of pastors, so I could get a good view of what was going on. When Dan would lay hands on someone I saw him many times start with a finger on the forehead, then if that didn't work, he would place both hands gently on the sides of the persons face. And if that didn't work he would direct a catcher to go back behind the person and he would usually get a slow complimentary fall after that.

 I saw 2 people go down right away. The most disturbing part for me was what I witnessed when I was getting ready to leave. I wanted to go up and introduce myself to Dan, plus I did want to encourage him on his weight loss.

I went to where Dan was sitting, and my jaw dropped. A lady was on her knees, bent over, face down, hands outstretched, each hand on one of Dan's feet. This in my opinion, had the appearance an act of worship directed towards Dan.

I felt that this type of act should be saved for the Lord only. Dan was leaning back in his chair with eyes closed and a big smile on his face. He seemed to really be taking it in.

 He opened his eyes and held out his hand, I introduced myself and then encouraged him about his weight loss. I really hope he sticks with it. I then went back and introduced myself to Dan's wife who was very nice and polite as well.

 With the lady prostrate in front of Dan I thought of this quote Thomas merton once said, he explained: "It is a glorious destiny to be a member of the human race, ... now I realize what we all are .... If only they [people] could all see themselves as they really are ...I suppose the big problem would be that we would fall down and worship each other ". 

 As Dan pronounced sickness and our hands freezing so we couldn't type, the crowd roared with approval. This verse came to mind:

 Rev 11:7-10   "7 When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our[c] Lord was crucified. 9 Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow[d] their dead bodies to be put into graves. 10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth."

 Keep in mind when the rapture happens, we won't be missed. Also bear in mind, if the Lords glory hit this room last night no one would be on their feet. You would not have the teens texting like I observed last night when this supposed 'glory' came, or women talking quietly on their cell phones.

I will leave you with more of Dan Bohi's words: "Pastors don't invite me unless they are desperate for the glory".  What 'glory' would that be Dan? It's certainly not God's glory who is revealed in scripture.

2 Thessalonians 2:3a (New King James Version) Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first Also Eph 5:11-14.

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Thursday, July 25, 2013

Review on the Harbringer

Well folks I belabored through this very tough read and have come to the conclusion Im not sure what all the hubbub is about. First of all I want all to know that I love to read books and enjoy page turners of all sorts.
This is not one of them.
To put it frankly it is written pretty much like a movie script and it was just a very hard and uninteresting read.
The next task to get through in my opinion was the huge ego writing this book. Cahn has set himself up as a self proclaimed end times prophet of sorts and frankly I just dont buy it he comes off sounding more like a member of the Kansas City Prophet or Apostolic Reformation folk even though I am not sure he is affiliated with either group.
The content of the book was basically how America is under or will be under judgement.
The error here though (again in my opinion) is that America is already under judgement.
Our culture and the daily news pretty much spells that out.
The one thing I did take exception on in this book was what I guess is the presentation of the gospel on page 223.
It starts out with "And how does one become born again"? "By receiving...by letting go...by letting the old life end and a new one begin. By choosing...by believing...by faith, Nourel...by surrendering your doubts..by opening your heart to receive...to contain the uncontainable."
Now to be fair on page 232 it does talk a bit about Jesus and that there is "no salvation,except in Him who is salvation."
But again the gospel presentaion that follows sounds very new age-Rick Warrenish to my ears even though it does mention sin. I would encourage you to perhaps go to the library and check the book out and read those pages for your self and decide. Me personally I choose to rent the book from the library and am personally glad I didnt spend money purchasing the book.

I want to add again its no big mystery that America is already under judgement and its does not take a prophet of sorts to figure that out. The book also seems to come to the conclusion that America is the new Israel or on the same level. The Bible does not teach this as well as America is not even mentioned in endtimes scripture. Here is a good article by Greg laurie that addresses that.  http://blog.greglaurie.com/?p=8931

In summation this is a bit from Tim Challis review of The Harbringer.
"Much like The Shack—quite an obvious point of comparison—Cahn displays the power of melding fiction and theology. What stood out to me as I read The Harbinger that perhaps was not quite so clear in The Shack, is that writing fiction allows the author to dictate his reader’s reaction. He can present a mundane fact and follow it with a gasp or an expression of awe as if the reader has missed the obvious importance. This is something Cahn does often and to his advantage. What seems like a great stretch in logic can be rationalized or given increased credence by a character’s excitement. It’s an effective tactic I hadn’t spotted before now. To be fair, unlike The Shack, this book contains a clear and substantial call to the gospel, definitely one of the few highlights and rather a rarity for a book that makes its way to the bestseller list.( I disagree with Tim's assesment on a clear presentaion of the gospel here but perhaps go to the library and decide for yourself)






It’s not that The Harbinger has nothing good to say, but that so many of even those good things are built upon a poor and even dangerous foundation. The book depends upon a fundamentally flawed way of understanding and applying the Bible, treating the Bible as a mystery to be solved rather than a clear and sufficient explanation of what we are to believe concerning God and how we can live in this world to his glory. There is no good reason to read or recommend this book."

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Tuesday, July 09, 2013

More On the Signs and Wonders Crowd/They are coming out of the woodwork


 Satan uses his supernatural “lying wonders and signs” to trap men into following him, while the Lord uses His miracles to lead men in a righteous path to follow Him. From the above verse, we see that men can be deceived into believing a lie if they are deceived into accepting lying signs and wonders. The Church is experiencing a lot of miracles at this time, but along with the true miracles of God there are also false gifts of power, signs and lying wonders, that are not of God. How do we discern the difference so that we do not get caught up in something that is not of God which could lead us into error?
 As Christians we cannot receive nor accept all miracles, signs and wonders just because the word “God or the Bible” is attributed as to being the source of those things. The Bible tells us in 1 Thessalonians 5:21: “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.”
 What should our role as Christians be in regard to acceptance of a sign, miracle or wonder? We are told to prove all things, not to reject them because they might be strange or new to us. However, we should not receive them either, until we first prove them. How do we prove things? All true Christians are in agreement that our standard is the Word of God, the Bible. God left us this Book as a reference, standard, or gauge so we could know whether something is good or evil, truth or error, right or wrong. “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works” (2 Timothy 3:16-17).
Here are some questions we need to ask when proving things. Does the sign, miracle or wonder line up with the Word of God? Is God receiving the glory for this miracle or is a man or woman being exalted? Can you picture Christ performing this miracle? Does the miracle draw attention to Christ or to the man performing the miracle? Does this wonder cause you love and worship God more? What is the purpose for this miracle? The Lord does not perform miracles just to exhibit His power to men. He does them for specific purposes and reasons.
This is demonstrated by the account of Jesus’ temptation of the devil to perform a supernatural feat so people would know He was God’s son. Look at Matthew 4:5-7, “Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.”
Here, Jesus refused to do a miracle just to demonstrate He had power. He called this tempting God. God displays His power, signs, wonders and miracles for His purposes. Here are some of the reasons and purposes in the Bible where the Lord demonstrates His signs, miracles or wonders. The miracles listed in the Bible are far few than all the miracle workers we have around today so it seems to me this is not the norm.
One reason some people move too quickly to accept the things they believe to be God is that they are fearful of disobeying Him, and thereby angering Him. They do not yet understand the loving and patient nature of our Father. The Lord never minds us testing or trying things to see if He is in them. It is only when we put God on trial that we do wrong. If we come to Him with a humble and sincere heart, wanting to know the answer to an honest question, He is more than willing to reveal to us the truth about the matter. The only time we will not get an answer from God is when we approach Him rebelliously, demanding an answer from Him.
Many Christians are hesitant about proving or testing things as they tend to categorize this right along with “judging,” and they have been taught they are to judge no man. Most of us are familiar with the Scripture in Matthew 7:1 that says, “Judge not, that ye be not judged.” If we look at only this one verse, and we are trying to judge a situation, we will feel guilty about making an evaluation. However, we should look at all the other Scriptures related to this one, so we know how we are to judge. Let us continue to read the rest of this Scripture:
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye. Matthew 7:2-5
Examining all these Scriptures, we see that Jesus is not saying we are not to judge, but rather how we are to judge. We are to judge mercifully and according to the Word of God. We need to humbly submit the thing in question to the Lord and ask Him to show us if it is of Him or if the sign or wonder is from the devil. We need to go to the Word of God and seek the answer in the Bible. If the sign is from Him it will bear witness to our spirit, we who have the Spirit of Truth within us will be able to witness to and hear that truth. If we are uncomfortable about a sign, miracle or wonder, this could be the Holy Spirit warning us to test this thing. If a service is reduced to a circus atmosphere with weird things that don’t agree with God’s nature, His gifts and His Word, it simply isn’t our Lord. Some things just don’t pass the test. 1 Corinthians 14:40 says “Let all things be done decently and in order.”

So we see another thing very much like the FIRE schools being promoted by Dan Bohi.
Another signs and wonders outfit with Nazarene endorsements. Notice on their about page this.
Power & Love Ministries was birthed out of the vision to see the Church of Jesus Christ catch hold of its inheritance to win the lost, as Paul says, “in demonstration of the Spirit and of power” (I Cor 2:4 NAS).
Why Schools of Power & Love?
It is time for the church of Jesus Christ to “come out of the closet!” We have the best kept secret of signs, wonders and miracles but until recently, they have been accessible only to those who might venture into one of our meetings! We believe that this is the season for Christians to demonstrate the gifts of prophecy, word of knowledge, and healing IN THE WORLD! We won’t be “arguing people into the kingdom” anymore…we will be demonstrating the love of God through revelation and power!

The plan is to hold Schools of Power & Love in cities across the US designed to empower you in the gifts of prophecy and healing as a lifestyle! These gifted teachers will not only give you a wonderful new understanding of power evangelism but then you will be “activated” as you “do the stuff” of the kingdom!

Why is NOW the time for Power Evangelism?

I traveled with Randy Clark and Global Awakening nationally and internationally from 2000 to 2007. During that time, we saw tremendous and numerous miracles in every country we visited. We took thousands of Christians from the US along with us on these international trips, trained them, and then watched them grow leaps and bounds as the Lord flowed through them resulting in tens of thousands of healings!
End quote

Notice the key words "We have the best kept secret of signs,wonders and miracles but until recently,they have been accessible only to those who might venture into our meetings." end quote
Notice only they have the secret, they have the power. What an insult to plenty of Spirit filled Christians
Wow the Holy Spirit needs a piggyback ride to your church and you need to go get him from these guys? Trust me thats not the Holy Spirit and what you will get is signs and wonders but those of the lying kind.

Second quote
"These gifted teachers will not only give you a wonderful new understanding of power evangelism but then you will be "activated" as you "do the stuff" of the kingdom. end quote
My comments
Notice you need them to activate you so you can do the stuff. This is all very similar to the FIRE schools now be promoted by Dan Bohi.
Yes we all are leaky vessels which need the filling of the Holy Spirit possibly daily. But this bunch notice is selling a NEW thing. What scriptures teaches is not new and they would have you believe that we are not operating on full power because a lot of stuff like shaking , people jerking like people who have epilepsy, people laughing uncontrollably, and being being slain by some spirit or frozen where they cant move.
This is a familiar spirit not the true Holy Spirit of scripture.
Reader Beware

http://powerandlove.org/about/endorsements/



additional resource Betty Miller 

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Friday, June 28, 2013

Not The Kind Of Fire You Would Want

You Probably dont want the kind of FIRE advertised by folks like Dan Bohi and various FIRE schools.
Dont take my word for it lets just explore the fire the above folks are talking about giving you in a biblical context from scripture
A verse commonly taken out of context


Matthew 3:11-12

New King James Version (NKJV)



11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.[a] 12 His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

Also Luke 3:16-17



Luke 3:16-17

New King James Version (NKJV)



16 John answered, saying to all, “I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 17 His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather the wheat into His barn; but the chaff He will burn with unquenchable fire.”



And yes I get it that the Holy Spirit appeared like tongues of fire over the heads of believers at Pentecost. But lets examine these verses and there context.



John the Baptist states He (Jesus) will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

John does not state Holy Spirit fire. But seperates the two Holy Spirit and fire.

We need to look at the next verse to see the context which John was speaking in.

He states Jesus will gather His wheat into the barn (saved people) but He (Jesus) will burn up the chaff (unsaved people not sin in this context but unrepentant sinners) He with unquenchable fire (the fires of hell). You for sure do not want this type of fire.

How does Jesus describle the Holy Spirit look at John 14

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.



18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.



19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.



20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.



21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.



22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?



23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.



24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.



25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.



26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.



Then in John 16 Jesus shows the work of the Holy Spirit



The Work of the Holy Spirit

5 “But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’ 6 But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. 7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. 8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.



12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.[c]



Again not any fire in Jesus's description of the Holy Spirit

Probably a good reason to stay away from FIRE school
The fire they are advertising refers more to what Smith Wiggleworth taught and here is a seperate article refuting Wigglesworth unscriptural take on fire.

http://www.bereanresearchinstitute.com/03_Doctrines/D.0005_01_Wigglesworth_1_of_6_Pentecostal_Baptism_of_Fire.html

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