The Debate or is it?
Well its not really a debate anymore but some still ask the question. Did God create the world in 6 days. Most reasonable people would say yes. However the debate is that science gets in the way. I dont really think that it does. The bigger problem is that the people throwing out the question don't really want to know the truth. They just want to try and disprove what you say. Because the question has been answered over and over again. I used to debate evolutionists back in the 90's in Ohio. Stopped doing it because it lacked bearing any fruit, because no matter what you said they already had a preconceived notion of what the answer should be. In spite of any biblical or scientific proof. Because you see they just like to argue. So anyway I stopped debating. Here is in my opinion is what the real problem is. I think the problem is accountability to a God who knows more than we do. People so much want to try to bring God down to their level and mentality. Yes Jesus did become human but at the same time He was and always will be Fully God. Its a matter of accountability. If God is smarter than us we are therefore accountable to Him because in fact He created us.So in my mind its really an accountability factor. Another reason I stopped debating is because the person I was often debating did not believe the Bible to be the word of God without error. Some how God (or man) messed up in certain parts but He happened to get the part about salvation right. Really how do you prove that? If there is true error in the scripture how can we trust any of it? And what parts are true and what parts are not is debated and mulled over by such people as Tom Oord or Karl Giberson who in my opinion is what could be called" useful idiots" for lack of a better phrase. I still think the real problem is some people can't seem to understand God unless they bring Him down to their level. A infinite mind versus a very finite mind. Not a good place to start.
It surprise's me how many of these men and women say they Love Jesus but scream They Hate Gods Word.
To say that humans and God are different is the ultimate understatement. No wonder we have a hard time understanding Him. Thankfully, he has overcome our limitations by revealing himself to us". Jesus, according to the Bible, is God’s ultimate means of revealing himself to us (Hebrews 1:1-3). The Gospels make it clear that Jesus is fully God (John 1:1) - so much so, that they refer to Jesus as the Word of God - that ultimate message that proceeds from his mouth. God’s thoughts in human form, if you like. The indivisibility of God and Jesus is a claim that Jesus also made about himself (John 10:30). The religious authorities he lived amongst knew what he was saying and wanted to kill him for it (John 8:48-59).
But at the same time the Bible reveals that Jesus is completely human - being born into a human body, growing up and learning as a child, suffering and struggling just like all human beings do. That’s what makes him such a perfect intercessor between God and man (Hebrews 4:15,16). So the Bible lays these two truths side by side (like in Romans 1:3,4) and expects us to accept them both. I have heard many clever illustrations that are supposed to explain this duality of Jesus’ nature (a trinity, when you consider that the Bible holds the Holy Spirit to also be indivisibly God, and yet separate) that point to our inability to comprehend this mystery because of our limited understanding - like the idea that a circle and triangle appear to be completely different shapes in two dimensions; one cannot be another. However, they can be brought together in three dimensions to form a cone (a circular base; a triangular body, but one shape). But the truth is that it is beyond us.
But on to the creation question. The folks reading this know what question was asked so here is the answer as it has been taught to me and both scripture and science agree with it .
Lets make one thing clear before we even start.The age of the earth, as determined by man’s fallible methods, is based on unproven assumptions, so it is not proven that the earth is billions of years old.This unproven age is being used to force an interpretation on the language of the Bible. Thus, man’s fallible theories are allowed to interpret the Bible. This ultimately undermines the use of language to communicate.Evolutionary scientists claim the fossil layers over the earth’s surface date back hundreds of millions of years. As soon as one allows millions of years for the fossil layers, then one has accepted death, bloodshed, disease, thorns, and suffering before Adam’s sin Most people are going to stop right here even though they have no true answers (infallible or conclusive). The Bible makes it clear that death, bloodshed, disease, and suffering are a consequence of sin. (There's that word that so many except certain exceptions hate to use). I think there is a confusion about light and the actual sun which was created later in the week. Light was created on the first day so now the word of God speaks in Gen 1:3 the result is light., the energizing of the vast cosmos through the marvelous electromagnetic force system which maintain all structure's and process's in matter. These varied energies not only include visible light, but also the shortwave radiations(ultra violet wave, x rays etc.) and the long wave radiations (infrared, radio waves etc..), as well as heat, sound, electricity, magnetism, molecular interactions etc.. Light the most basic form of energy is mentioned specifically, but its existence necessarily implies the activation of all form of electromagnetic energies. The existence of visible light prior to the establishment of the sun.moon and stars (Gen 1:6) emphasizes the fact that light (energy) is more fundamental than light givers. God could have easily have created waves of light energy as he could construct material bodies which generate light energy. The first id direct (since God is light), the second indirect. On the first day God had said "Let there be light". Now he says Let their be lights (Gen 1:14) Light energy was activated first, but now great masses of material (part of the" earth" elements created on the first day) were gathered together in one of the firmaments or spaces of the cosmos-the space beyond the water's above the space adjacent to the earth.These great bodies were set burning in complex chemical and nuclear reactions, to serve as light givers for the earth.
These answers were given a longtime ago by people a lot smarter than me. And thats the end of this debate. People can choose to believe what they want. When we read scripture we need the Holy Spirit to even understand that. So it is really not by our own smarts at all. We cant take credit for even that,
It surprise's me how many of these men and women say they Love Jesus but scream They Hate Gods Word.
To say that humans and God are different is the ultimate understatement. No wonder we have a hard time understanding Him. Thankfully, he has overcome our limitations by revealing himself to us". Jesus, according to the Bible, is God’s ultimate means of revealing himself to us (Hebrews 1:1-3). The Gospels make it clear that Jesus is fully God (John 1:1) - so much so, that they refer to Jesus as the Word of God - that ultimate message that proceeds from his mouth. God’s thoughts in human form, if you like. The indivisibility of God and Jesus is a claim that Jesus also made about himself (John 10:30). The religious authorities he lived amongst knew what he was saying and wanted to kill him for it (John 8:48-59).
But at the same time the Bible reveals that Jesus is completely human - being born into a human body, growing up and learning as a child, suffering and struggling just like all human beings do. That’s what makes him such a perfect intercessor between God and man (Hebrews 4:15,16). So the Bible lays these two truths side by side (like in Romans 1:3,4) and expects us to accept them both. I have heard many clever illustrations that are supposed to explain this duality of Jesus’ nature (a trinity, when you consider that the Bible holds the Holy Spirit to also be indivisibly God, and yet separate) that point to our inability to comprehend this mystery because of our limited understanding - like the idea that a circle and triangle appear to be completely different shapes in two dimensions; one cannot be another. However, they can be brought together in three dimensions to form a cone (a circular base; a triangular body, but one shape). But the truth is that it is beyond us.
But on to the creation question. The folks reading this know what question was asked so here is the answer as it has been taught to me and both scripture and science agree with it .
Lets make one thing clear before we even start.The age of the earth, as determined by man’s fallible methods, is based on unproven assumptions, so it is not proven that the earth is billions of years old.This unproven age is being used to force an interpretation on the language of the Bible. Thus, man’s fallible theories are allowed to interpret the Bible. This ultimately undermines the use of language to communicate.Evolutionary scientists claim the fossil layers over the earth’s surface date back hundreds of millions of years. As soon as one allows millions of years for the fossil layers, then one has accepted death, bloodshed, disease, thorns, and suffering before Adam’s sin Most people are going to stop right here even though they have no true answers (infallible or conclusive). The Bible makes it clear that death, bloodshed, disease, and suffering are a consequence of sin. (There's that word that so many except certain exceptions hate to use). I think there is a confusion about light and the actual sun which was created later in the week. Light was created on the first day so now the word of God speaks in Gen 1:3 the result is light., the energizing of the vast cosmos through the marvelous electromagnetic force system which maintain all structure's and process's in matter. These varied energies not only include visible light, but also the shortwave radiations(ultra violet wave, x rays etc.) and the long wave radiations (infrared, radio waves etc..), as well as heat, sound, electricity, magnetism, molecular interactions etc.. Light the most basic form of energy is mentioned specifically, but its existence necessarily implies the activation of all form of electromagnetic energies. The existence of visible light prior to the establishment of the sun.moon and stars (Gen 1:6) emphasizes the fact that light (energy) is more fundamental than light givers. God could have easily have created waves of light energy as he could construct material bodies which generate light energy. The first id direct (since God is light), the second indirect. On the first day God had said "Let there be light". Now he says Let their be lights (Gen 1:14) Light energy was activated first, but now great masses of material (part of the" earth" elements created on the first day) were gathered together in one of the firmaments or spaces of the cosmos-the space beyond the water's above the space adjacent to the earth.These great bodies were set burning in complex chemical and nuclear reactions, to serve as light givers for the earth.
These answers were given a longtime ago by people a lot smarter than me. And thats the end of this debate. People can choose to believe what they want. When we read scripture we need the Holy Spirit to even understand that. So it is really not by our own smarts at all. We cant take credit for even that,
posted by Tim Wirth | 10:19 AM
1 Comments:
There is no contradiction between Genesis 1 and 2. Genesis 1 is a detailed explanation of the six days of creation, day by day. Genesis two is a recap and a more detailed explanation of the sixth day, the day that Adam and Eve were made. The recap is stated in Gen. 2:4, "This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven." Then, Moses goes on to detail the creation of Adam and Eve as is seen in verses 7 thru 24 of Gen. 2. Proof that it is not a creative account is found in the fact that animals aren't even mentioned until after the creation of Adam. Why? Probably because their purpose was designated by Adam. They didn't need to be mentioned until after Adam was created.
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