Pondering

I recieved this email early in the week from a friend of mine and thought it was very thought provoking.
Something to think about.
Here is the email-

I met this guy in the store yesterday. He approached me and said he could see something different in me. We talked very briefly, and at the end of our talk, he asked if he could call me or write to me through e-mail. I was hesitant, especially when he told me he's not a Christian and doesn't really have an interest in hearing about God. That would normally be a flag to just walk away. However, although a part of me grieved for a moment, I felt a strange desire in him, as if he was truly searching for what I have (meaning Christ). I gave him my info and he wrote to me. It appears he's into a strange occult belief system and has some questions about how anyone can be so into God. Although it is the ideal "custom" for guys to witness to guys, he said he can't stand taking to "Jesus freaks" and the only reason he’s open to listening to what I have to say because he sees something really genuine in me that’s peaked his curiosity. My boldness to witness has... dwindled a bit and I've been praying for God to bring me hurting souls. How often I've wondered if the lady in front of me at the grocery store or a man at a bus stop was someone I was to talk to. I guess I could say my confidence has dwindled, too. Maybe someone else could witness to this guy I recently met. I just wonder sometimes about our timing on this earth. I mean, let's say this guy died tomorrow. He wouldn't have had a chance for anyone else to talk with him about our Lord. That may be extreme, but it is possible. Do we always wait until the light just shines a pretty green when talking to someone? Don't get me wrong, I am not disputing the fact that there are flags we need to notice and even times when we need to back away. Still, what if this guy has been placed in my path to witness to? Not saying we have to go out and share some coffee or come close to a dating type relationship. Just that we write and communicate to each other our views and perhaps share how we came to them. I remember many years ago when I used to street witness, how amazingly against God some of the people were. I talked to everyone, I mean everyone who would give me a moment of their time. Pimps, prostitutes, drug dealers, gang members... you name it. I was bold and I was on a mission. Male/female was not a concern. My goal and desire was winning the hearts of our nation for Christ. I look at my life now and can't believe how... shallow is not quite the right word, but... in a sense how shallow I've become. How trapped I am in my own little world of who, where, why, when and how Christians should be, and likewise who, where, why, when and how we should treat unbelievers. Sure we reach out sometimes, we may do some missions, we often talk a lot of talk. But when it comes right down to it, is our heart yearning, I mean REALLY yearning for those in our paths to know and be a part of Christ? To ponder that, I often think how I am a child of the King, an heir to the throne of my Heavenly Father whom I pray and believe is pleased with me, as far as a devoted child of a kingdom living in another world can be. Where comes the discernment and humility? How do we find that fine line of who and how we are in ourselves and who and how we are in Christ? If we see a hurting person, male of female, do we analyze it to death, convincing ourselves that we may not the right one to be witnessing to them? I process this merely for my own sanity. There is a part of me that has been missing something for quite some time. Perhaps it is the boldness I once had for reaching out to anyone, to everyone I possibly could, no matter what situation they were in. If there was an ounce of hope, 10 years ago, I would have taken it and used it and done everything in my power to help someone gain an insight or, greater yet, relationship with Christ. Although we live in this world, we are not of it. Our home is in a land far away. Our father and our "life" is foreign to this world, yet I know with all I am that there are so many who are desperately searching and wanting to be there, to live there, to have what I have. How strong am I in fulfilling that quest to give everyone the same opportunity, the same glorious gift I have been given? Even with all the trials and pain, even in times of doubt, I know still, deep inside, that I am loved. That I have a home and my Father waits eagerly for me to come and be with Him and live there for all eternity. Do I live here so complacent that I do not wish or even know anymore how to impart that to others, to truly reach the hurting souls for Him? Am I so caught up in my "should world" that I remove myself from this one, not even making a real attempt to make it better, not being bold enough to take a chance and help those "questioanble ones" who so desperately need my help? Sadly, there are many times it seems true. There should be a burning inside of me so strong that it cannot be quenched. A friend, a neighbor, a man on the street should all have my attention and prayers. At least as often, those who are against me or my Lord should not only have my attention and prayers, they should also be given my love. To glorify our Lord is to reach the lost, repeatedly giving them a chance to know and comprehend His Love. So often I think we minimize what that is. We live in such a selfish world. No-one seems to have, or actually find the time to care anymore. How selfish I can be at times. How often I expect others to minister to me when I should be out ministering to others. When my heart is breaking or when trials try to steal my joy, do I think of all the others in this world who, likewise experience that pain? Do my prayers lift up a combined feeling of anguish or do they merely focus on me? It is such a "ME" world. How I wish we could somehow change that. The change comes when we see the "WE", when we open our spiritual eyes and focus on all we DO have and all the blessings God has given to us, most of which we do not begin to deserve. It is only by His grace and mercy that we even have another breath to breathe. To see His face, to hear His voice... what does that mean? It is simply to hold out our hand, to offer a smile or just impart a sweet or kind word. When we come together for the sake of the cross... that is the true fellowship, that is the church our Father wants to see. That is the WE need to be. Care for the hurting, communing with the saints, stopping for just a moment, taking a deep breath, looking into the hearts of those around us, giving thanks for them, and giving thanks that we even have a today to live in, that we can make a change in someone's life and in our own lives if we just step out and do so. To be the vessel God can use to transform a life for Him. To ponder the possibilities. Oh, so many possibilities. Oh, Father, grant us wisdom that we would know your ultimate will and walk in the grace and forgiveness you continually, so graciously bestow upon us.

Reimagining Christianity

Isaiah 5:20
20 Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

I have recently returned from a discernment conference that took place in Burbank, CA.
The new heresy of the church toward Kingdom Now instead of later was discussed.
The false premise that we need to get the planet taken over so Jesus can come back.
What utter foolishness and heresy from people like C.Peter Wagner, and Ted Haggard.
It seems we are now normalizing occult practices through vehicles like The Emergent Church and there is also a move to bring all religions together.
This we know according to the bible is the false religion-the woman riding the beast.
You really need to be on your toes and look at whats happening in the church.
You also need to get back into reading the scriptures if you are going to be able to discern through this time of great deception.
There was a article today that came out in Christianity Today about a man who believes the Holy Spirit moves through all religions.
Here are some quotes from that article.

"His central thesis is that, because the Spirit of God is universally active in creation and new creation, "the religions of the world, like everything else that exists, are providentially sustained by the Spirit of God for divine purposes." Where most Pentecostals see the devil's work, Yong sees the Spirit's. Concretely, that means Christians should be open to learning from and being enriched by the Spirit's work in world religions. Dialogue must take place alongside evangelism, he argues, so that all the religions including Christianity can learn from each other what the Spirit is doing."

"But Yong seems to be saying more. In his theology, the world religions are instruments of God, play a role in God's providence, and have much to contribute to Christianity. "[C]hristians should be open to learning from other religious traditions because of the unfinished character of Christian identity," he writes. "While we are being formed into the eschatological image of Jesus, we continue to look through the glass dimly. If others have something to say about God, should we not at least listen both sympathetically and critically?"

Here is a link to the entire article-
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2006/003/38.52.html

Gods word however directly conflicts with what this man has to say in 2 Corinthians 6:14-18
"14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?
15 And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever?
16 And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: I will dwell in them And walk among them. I will be their God, And they shall be My people.
17 Therefore Come out from among them And be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you.
18 I will be a Father to you, And you shall be My sons and daughters, Says the LORD Almighty.

Gods word is in direct opposistion to what this Mr Yong is proposing and I heartily suggest you regect what Mr Yong has to say because it conflicts and denies what God states in His written truth.

Mr Yongs stance also coincides with what Sandy Simpson exposed in this article.
11 Reasons To Reject The Teachings Of The Indigenous People's Movement
here is the link
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/reasonstoreject.html

Here is another article I would suggest you read from Berit Kjos
From Gnostic Roots to Occult Revival
here is the link
http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/006/emerging-2.htm

In this time of deception are you ready for the return of our Savior Jesus Christ?
Will you get left behind?
Even in Pauls time the Christians then were eagerly waiting for Christs Return.
So shouldnt we be out spreading the true gospel instead of seeking a experience with some god?
Dont you want to hear?
"Well done good and faithful servant."
Or are you busy just living like those in the time of Noah?
Something to think about.

Contemplative "Christian" Wizardry

Great new article by my brother in the Lord and fellow percussionist Rocky Muse.

CONTEMPLATIVE “CHRISTIAN” WIZARDRY
by Roger Muse


When you hear the word WIZARD, what probably comes to mind are Merlin, Gandalf, Harry Potter, or maybe even (I am dating myself) the cartoon lizard “Mr. Wizard” and his friend “Tooter the Turtle”. But what about that well dressed guy with a Bible in his hand? If he’s practicing or teaching Contemplative Prayer, say hello to a real life “Mr. Wizard”.

Levi 19:31: Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I [am] the LORD your God.

Wizard - (Hebrew “yidda oniy”) - a knower, one who has a familiar spirit. “The Hebrew Lexicon” shows that a wizard is: (1) properly knowing {a magician}, wise, hence a prophet, always used in a bad sense of a false prophet. (2) A spirit of divination, a spirit of python (see Kundalini below), with which these “soothsayers” were said to be in communication.

Gnostic – (From the Greek “gnosis” - knowledge) - a knower. “The Catholic Encyclopedia” defines Gnosticism as: A collective name for a large number of greatly-varying and pantheistic-idealistic sects, which flourished from some time before the Christian Era down to the fifth century, and which, while borrowing the phraseology and some of the tenets of the chief religions of the day, and especially of Christianity, held matter to be a deterioration of spirit, and the whole universe a depravation of the Deity, and taught the ultimate end of all being to be the overcoming of the grossness of matter and the return to the Parent-Spirit, which return they held to be inaugurated and facilitated by the appearance of some God-sent Savior.

WIZARD = GNOSTIC = CONTEMPLATIVE

One of the most well known groups of Christian Gnostics were the Desert Fathers. Christian Gnostic however is somewhat of a misnomer, as the Desert Fathers took their pre-existing pagan panentheist religion and incorporated Jesus and Christian terminology into it. They believed the only way to know ‘God’ (to them an impersonal cosmic universal force) was through a personal mystical experience of union with this force. They believed Jesus was a God sent savior (as mentioned above), but also only a man who had reached this state of union, and that they could achieve this state and be freed from the evil material universe. They embraced the mystical practices of other pagan religions (Hinduism, Buddhism, Egyptian Mystery Religions, etc.) because they offered a proven way to experience the spiritual realm and thus reach union. These Gnostics were the first practitioners of what has become known as Contemplative Prayer.

Contemplative Prayer is a practice that uses repeated “sacred words” (a mantra), or controlled breathing techniques to help focus the mind until all thought is silenced, the mind is emptied of “self”, is totally subdued and compliant, and is then open for union with the “God”.

In reality the Gnostics were becoming wizards, opening themselves up to specific demonic spirits. The Hindus call the effects of this demonic influence “Kundalini arousal” or the awakening of “The Serpent Spirit” (see spirit of python above). This demonic power is released (given free reign over the individual) when this mystical union is achieved. The Hindus and today’s New Age practitioners, achieve this union through practicing Transcendental Meditation (TM), a yoga technique that is virtually identical to the Contemplative Prayer spreading through the Evangelical Church today.

The Gnostics took the pragmatic view that what worked for pagans would also work for them. They sought to know God through personal experiential understanding and mystical demonic influence. They introduced their pagan practices into Christianity when they gradually started grouping together with monks in monasteries in the fifth century where Contemplative Prayer was quickly assimilated into the Catholic tradition.

The basic beliefs of the Gnostics are the same underlying beliefs of today’s New Age practitioners. They have the same root, the same source. Today’s Christian Contemplative Prayer practitioners argue that it has a long history among Christians, but they fail to realize that the roots precede Christianity and those roots are pagan/demonic in origin. They fail to see that the source of their knowledge is just as important as the knowledge itself, and the source of this knowledge is demonic. They need to discern that you cannot get good fruit from a corrupt tree. They need to ignore the pretty flowering branches and smooth trunk, and see the rotten corrupt roots and the eventual evil fruit of Contemplative Prayer.

Matt 7:18-19: A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

All forms of Contemplative Prayer as practiced today by undiscerning Christians (Centering Prayer, Mantra Prayer, Breath Prayer, Lectio Divina, etc.) are directly aligned with, and are the corrupt fruit of the Contemplative Prayer practices used by the Gnostics, who learned them from the pagan Hindus, Buddhists, and Egyptian Mystics. There is no description of anything even remotely resembling the practice of Contemplative Prayer in the scriptures. We are in grave error when we accept practices from pagan religions, with a coat of “Christianized Whitewash” slapped on them and passed off as practices sanctioned by God, just because they give us a “mystical” or “spiritual” experience.

Deut 7:25: The graven images of their gods shall ye burn with fire: thou shalt not desire the silver or gold [that is] on them, nor take [it] unto thee, lest thou be snared therein: for it [is] an abomination to the LORD thy God.

We are not to desire ANYTHING from the pagan gods/religions, not even if what they offer seems good and valuable, like the gold and silver on the pagan idols seemed good and valuable. Even if some people see good and value in Contemplative Prayer, it comes from a polluted source. If the source is polluted, then everything that spews forth from it is also polluted and is an abomination to God.

Contemplative Prayer is not the way to grow in the knowledge of God; it is not even a valid form of prayer.

Every example of prayer in the Bible has the individual that is praying actively involved in the process, and praying to God with words or tongues and/or asking a petition of God. Never is there a mention of emptying our minds of all thought so that we can achieve “divine union” with God.


THE TRUTH

God provided the scriptures in order for us to obtain the knowledge of him as they are revealed to us by the Holy Spirit.

2 Pet 1:3: According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

John 8:31-32: Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, [then] are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

John 14:6: Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 16:13-15: Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you.

John 17:17-19: Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

2 Tim 3:16-17: All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

How do we obtain everything dealing with life and Godliness? Through knowledge of God.

How do we know the truth? By continuing in his word.

Who is the truth that we know by continuing in his word? Jesus.

Who will guide us into all truth? The Holy Spirit.

What is truth? His word is truth.

How are we sanctified? Through the truth, e.g. his word.

How are we made perfect and thoroughly furnished unto all good works? Through doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness provided by all scripture, his word, his truth.

Our only legitimate God sanctioned source of spiritual knowledge is pure, and holy. It is the Bible, and the leading of the Holy Spirit, which will NEVER conflict with God’s written word, the holy scripture.

Heresy Hunter?

People in discernment minitry are often tagged Heresy Hunters. I thought this phrase was made up by Paul Crouch at TBN.
I was wrong.
Here is a a great article written way back in 1902 which deals with this issue written by J. W. McGarvey-



[Apr. 5, 1902.]
HERESY-HUNTING.
Some people have very confused ideas about hunting for heresy, and about Christian liberty. If a man advances and seeks to propagate teaching which I regard as very injurious, if not ruinous, and I assail it with vigor, such vigor as he feels unable to resist on the merits of the question, it is common for him and his friends to cry out, "Heresy-hunter! Heresy-hunter!" If a lot of us should go prying into some man's utterances to find something wrong, somewhat as W. T. Moore's hounds kept up a yelping all night because, as the old darkey said, "dey smell something', but can't 'zac'ly locate it," we might be charged with hunting for heresy; but if those hounds had seen a fox coming out of some man's hen-roost, nobody would have objected to their giving him chase. The fox might cry out for personal [383] liberty, and say, "I have just as good a right to take a chicken as you have to take a fox," nevertheless, the common judgment of mankind would say that to chase the fox away would be a righteous act. Out West there are bear-hunters. They go creeping around among the hills and rocks trying to slip up on a bear and take the advantage of him. In this they are like real heresy-hunters. But if a man is walking along the public road, and meets a bear reared on his hind legs, and reaching for him with his fore paws, there is bound to be a fight or a foot-race; and if the man should fight the bear, nobody could on this account call him a bear-hunter. The bear might say, "I am free, and have as much right on this road as you have," and the man could answer, "I am free, too, and have as much right on this road as you have." And if the man should also say, "You are after hugging me, and you hug everybody you can get hold of, so I will put a bullet through you," the average citizen would say that the man was in the right. So, if heresy does not want to be shot at, it should play sly and not walk out into the public road.

Digital Glass

I mentioned Digital Glass previously when I did a expose on First Baptist of Modesto when I attended a Emergent Church service on their campus titled "Sanctum."
Digital Glass was utilized by the junior high pastor there in order to "get our minds ready". So I investigated this further and made mention of it in the article.
Yesterday at the current church I attend they showed a video which struck me as odd and it looked familiar. I went back to the sound board to discover the Digital Glass DVD sitting out. The video was "concrete jesus."
Now the church I currently attend is not a Rick Warren clone and the senior pastor there is a wonderful expository preacher. He was however not there this weekend. And I fault no one on staff.Unbiblical nonsense like Digital Glass has made its way unknown into many in the church. I just want to use this article to shed some more light on this DVD.

Digital Glass uses a method which sends rapidly moving images at you. I am very uncomfortable with this and the same method is often used in advertising to plant subliminal thought that effects our buying habits.
But what product is Digital Glass trying to sell?
Emergent church of course and they make no bones about it.
We really need to wake up folks and we need to check and research material coming into the church. Most of all with the kids.

I will use a couple direct quotes from the Digital Glass website which makes no bones about what they are doing.

First quote
"I feel that the Church's reliance on the Word as text has greatly limited the interaction between us and God."

Now lets take that apart. The church's reliance on the Word (they are talking about the Bible here folks) as text?
What else could the written Word be.
And the text (the written Word) has greatly limited the interaction between us and God.
What??
And who is the Word?

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Read the whole rest of the first chapter of Johns gospel.
The Word of course is Jesus.

So here is what the folks at Digital Glass are really saying-

The church's reliance on Jesus has greatly limited a fluffy feel good and mystical experience between us and some sort of god.
Thats what they are really saying.

And if thats not enough to use a copy of Digital Glass as a Frisbee let me give you another quote.

quote from Digital Glass site
" Our goal was to give a "face" to the stories, to illustrate the Word in an emotionally engaging fashion rather than to rely on a didactic method of instruction."
"A couple of my best friends are Catholic, and while I don't always agree with all of their beliefs, I've come to envy parts of their experience. "

Lets look at the first quote "to illustrate the Word in an emotionally engaging fashion rather than to rely on a didactic method of instruction."

The very word didactic according to Websters is defined as
1.intended to teach
2. Morally instructive.

So the makers of Digital Glass are saying don't rely on teaching but rely on the experience you have with their video.
So what does Gods word say

Luke 4:32
32 And they were astonished at His teaching, for His word was with authority

Acts 15:35 Paul and Barnabas also remained in Antioch, teaching and preaching the word of the Lord, with many others also.

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.

2 Peter 2:18 Deceptions of False Teachers ] For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error.

I then did a word search on experience Gods Word. These are the results.

No results found.No results were found for experience Gods Word
So then I narrowed the search to "Experience God"

No results found.No results were found for Experience God



Again I came up empty in my search.

Side note-I did a word search of experience God in The Message version of the Bible (which is really not a Bible or a translation of Gods words)
And I came up with two pages of verses Old and New Testement.
Again I consider The Message to be both a Gnostic and New Age translation (actually perversion fits best) of Gods Word.

Again Im not saying that experience or emotions are bad. But the church today from the Word Faith crowd to Emergent are running on experiences that are not of God becaue men are conjuring them up.
Any kind of experience you have with God will always, always, always be initiated by God.


Show me one scripture that proves otherwise.
Does the Word of God tell us to study or experience Gods Word?

2 Timothy 2:15" Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

The whole Emergent Movement is either trying to take you away from Gords written word in favor of some kind of experience (which I can almost guarantee you wont be with God-unless He decides to knock you off the horse your riding and get you back into His written Word).

Or you have people like Emergent Leader Brian McLaren going around saying -Did God really say that?
Hmmn who did that statement originally come from?

In conclusion read this from the Digital Glass website
"So stay tuned... I think the church is coming to a critical juncture with all of the changes occurring in the world. Both Sally and I see a lot of potential, and a lot of creative possibilities. "

And then read Gods Word.

2 Thess 2:11-12
"11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

Frisbee anyone?

The Emergent Elijah by David Green

Great article I found on Steve Camps website.
Very interesting article about the Emergent church



What if the Emergent Church crowd could re-write some of the “mean” parts of the Bible? What would it look like? The following is an account from the story of Elijah & the prophets of Baal. Much of the narrative is from actual things Brian McLaren has written in his books (McLaren is one of the main advocates of the “emergents”).Elijah said to Ahab, "You have forsaken the commandments of the Lord, and you have followed Baal. Although I don't agree with that decision, I can't condemn it. After all, no one has all the truth. I understand that Israel has some truth and so does the religion of Baal. We're all seekers of ultimate truth. Therefore, let us unite with the prophets of Baal. Now then send and gather to me all Israel at Mount Carmel, together with 450 prophets of Baal and 400 prophets of the Asherah, who eat at Jezebel's table. And let us all have a conversation" (I Kings 18:18-19).So Ahab sent a message among all the sons of Israel, and brought the prophets together at Mount Carmel. And Elijah came near to all the people and said, "How long will we hesitate between two opinions? Forever, I say! The Lord might be God, or Baal might be God. We all have our own personal opinion as to who God is, but let's face it: We might be wrong. So let us be open to Baal. Remember, Judge not lest ye be judged!" But the people did not answer him a word (I Kings 18:20-21).

Then Elijah said to the people, "I alone am left a prophet of the Lord, but Baal's prophets are 450 men. I'm not saying this proves that Baal is the true God, but it is a powerful argument for Baal, wouldn't you agree? So let's be open to what the prophets of Baal have to teach us.” (I Kings 18:22)."Now ---- it, I know that some of you have proposed that we put Baal to the test and see if either Baal or Yahweh will give us a sign from heaven. But this is wrong. Even if fire came down from heaven, that wouldn't prove anything. If we thought that fire proved that Yahweh was the true God, we would be arrogant. Our certainty would be based on evidence that could easily be explained by natural phenomenon. So instead of having the arrogance of certainty, let us instead have a humble conversation and unite in the unity of love with the prophets of Baal." And all the people answered Elijah and said, "That is a good idea" (I Kings 18:23-24).So Elijah said to the prophets of Baal, "We respect your beliefs, prophets of Baal. We Israelites do not have absolute certainty about the God of Israel. In truth, we might be wrong. We're only relatively certain that we're onto something when we worship Yahweh. Therefore we don't judge you when you call out to Baal or when you cut yourselves with swords and lances until blood gushes out. Additionally, we don't believe that Yahweh is at war with Baal. God has not called his followers to gain victory or to triumph over his enemies. Yahweh does not want us to conquer the hearts of men through evangelism. "Conquest" is a trait of evil, white, European, male Christianity. We're above and beyond such mean-spirited hurtfulness" (I Kings 18:25-29).

Then Elijah said to all the people, "Come near to me." So all the people came near to him. And he repaired the altar of the Lord, which had been torn down. And Elijah took the same number stones as there are world religions, and he said, "To the prophets of Baal and to all sincere worshipers of deities, we unite with you in true love and unity. The lion is lying down with the lamb. Amen?" (I Kings 18:30-39).Then Elijah said to the people, "Shake hands with the prophets of Baal. Hug them as your spiritual brothers”. So they hugged them; and Elijah brought them down to the brook Kishon, and made them members of his church. (I Kings 18:40).

Review of Pa$$ The Plate and Let Us Prey-My Search for Black and White Christianity in a Gray Nation

David Norris of Spiritual Pathways Ministries wrote a three part review of the book.
If you are interested in reading the review please click on the following links.
http://interactive812forum.blogspot.com/2006/03/book-review-pa-plate-and-let-us-prey.html
http://interactive812forum.blogspot.com/2006/03/pa-plate-and-let-us-prey-2.html
http://interactive812forum.blogspot.com/2006/03/pass-plate-and-let-us-prey-by-tim.html


One of the reasons I did not mention names in my book was to make the point that the big league teachers affect what goes on at the local church level.
When I was in Amway they called this duplication. If you wanted to be successful you duplicated the efforts of someone who was making tons of money.
And hey thats what it's about a lot these days in church isnt it?
Money and how big your building is.
Hey dont criticize what God is blessing right?
The first church I played in was a Rod Parsley church plant.
If Rod was preaching it would be a standing room only event.
But when Rod was not in the house his perversion of scripture and idiosyncrasies were still very present.
Again duplication.
Preachers look at the financial wealth of preachers like Joyce Meyer, Rod Parsley, Rick Warren and Bill Hybels and think if I duplicate their efforts the pay off will come and my career will fly.

Musicians are a big part of the blame here.
Good players often flock to the big house's because they know its a good paying gig.
Check your doctrine at the door though we dont want to touch Gods anointed.
All this for a paycheck.
Sometimes though the music is great.
I personally know musicians who would dog the pastor backstage after playing worship music.
I know because I was one of them.
And that was zero discernment and the worse kind of compromise.
I knew the doctrine was wrong.
But I ignored it because I played with such great players.
God forgive me for that!


One other thing I didnt cover in the book was this.
The Holy Spirit jams.
Just like the lame music that came out of Smithton and Brownsville false revivals.
Two and three chord lame, uninspired, poorly played jams.
How many of you have ever been involved those kind of jams.
Whether it was Cindy Jacobs promoting her musicians into another awful fire song off the cuff.
Or Glen Berteau from Calvary Temple in Modesto, CA promoting his worship leader into the Pentecostal two step(you know the bass line do-do do-do-do-do do yes lots of do-do).
To whip people up into a frenzy and pretend God is there in power and then go for your wallets.
This is uninspired and lousy playing and is a insult to the Holy Spirit.
It doesnt matter what level you are at.
Whether you are on T.B.N.
Or trying out for T.B.N.
Its all the same deception.
What about the musicians favorite Bible to quote from?
In my experience it has been The Message.
No wonder musicians dont have any discernment if they are reading The Message let that be your first clue they are not a faithful Berean.
If your worship leader quotes from that Bible call him or her on it.
But be prepared to pack your gear after exposing him or her.
The Message in a Gnostic, New Age version that perverts the very Word of God.
I dont have time or space here to even go into that.
Do a search.
Do I sound upset?
Well I am.
But Im more mad at myself for being a willing part of this deception all for the sake of a good gig.
Dear Lord I am so very sorry.
What does God think of all our fleshy nonsense.
I believe the book of Amos speaks to this.


Amos 5:21-24
"21 I hate, I despise your feast days, And I do not savor your sacred assemblies.
22 Though you offer Me burnt offerings and your grain offerings, I will not accept them, Nor will I regard your fattened peace offerings.
23 Take away from Me the noise of your songs,For I will not hear the melody of your stringed instruments.
24 But let justice run down like water, And righteousness like a mighty stream.

Amos 6:3-7
" 3 Woe to you who put far off the day of doom, Who cause the seat of violence to come near; 4 Who lie on beds of ivory, Stretch out on your couches Eat lambs from the flock And calves from the midst of the stall;
5 Who sing idly to the sound of stringed instruments, And invent for yourselves musical instruments like David;
6 Who drink wine from bowls, And anoint yourselves with the best ointments, But are not grieved for the affliction of Joseph.
7 Therefore they shall now go captive as the first of the captives, And those who recline at banquets shall be removed.

My fellow musicians remember that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God (Romans 10:17)
This is by hearing the word of God through preaching not through a song sang.
Romans 10:14-1
"14How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?
15And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
Even though music can be used in other ways to honor God.
So what do we have since so much emphasize has been on music instead of the word of God.
I believe again that the book of Amos speaks to this.
Amos 8:11-14
"11 "The days are coming," declares the Sovereign LORD, "when I will send a famine through the land not a famine of food or a thirst for water, but a famine of hearing the words of the LORD.
12 Men will stagger from sea to sea and wander from north to east, searching for the word of the LORD but they will not find it.
13 "In that day "the lovely young women and strong young men will faint because of thirst.
14 They who swear by the shame of Samaria,or say, 'As surely as your god lives, O Dan,' or, 'As surely as the god of Beersheba lives' they will fall, never to rise again."

Dear ones flee the apostate church before its to late and you are handed over to great delusion from which there is no turning back.

2 Thess 2:11-12
"
11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie
12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness."

False Prophets False Apostles

2 Corinthians 11:5-15
"5 For I consider that I am not at all inferior to the most eminent apostles. 6 Even though I am untrained in speech, yet I am not in knowledge. But we have been thoroughly manifested[a] among you in all things. 7 Did I commit sin in humbling myself that you might be exalted, because I preached the gospel of God to you free of charge? 8 I robbed other churches, taking wages from them to minister to you. 9 And when I was present with you, and in need, I was a burden to no one, for what I lacked the brethren who came from Macedonia supplied. And in everything I kept myself from being burdensome to you, and so I will keep myself. 10 As the truth of Christ is in me, no one shall stop me from this boasting in the regions of Achaia. 11 Why? Because I do not love you? God knows! 12 But what I do, I will also continue to do, that I may cut off the opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the things of which they boast. 13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works."

Matt 24:23-24
"23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect."

Lots of information here please take the time (with your Bibles in hand) to check and read every link.

Remember a while back when Benny Hinn claimed that Jesus would appear at some of Bennys meetings live on the plateform?
Go read Matt 24:23 again as Jesus Himself cautions you against guys like Benny Hinn.

Its time to start looking at the root of the problem go do a word search on C. Peter Wagner false apostle and see what comes up.
Then look at the people Wagner has influenced and taught and promoted.
Church Growth Movement-Schuller, Hybels, Warren
False Prophet Movement-Kansas City Prophets, Mike Bickle, Cindy Jacobs
As well as The False prophet movements head excuseoligist Jack Deere
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/deereonprophecy.html
False teachers Ted Haggard
All can be tracked back to Wagner and or Fuller.
Here are some great articles to read to educate yourselves.
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/orrel20.html
http://herescope.blogspot.com/2005/12/whos-who-in-new-apostolic.html
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/addendum-haggard.html
http://www.moriel.org/discernment/answer_to_ted_haggard.htm

For more information on this fasle movement I would highly suggest you buy "The New Apostolic Reformation" DVD series by Sandy Simpson I won this and the 6 DVD's are loaded with good biblical information.
Here is the link
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/newapostolic.html

Also take the time to read this letter from Bud Press
http://www.christianresearchservice.com/CharismaOpenLetter1.htm


Some of you my fellow brothers and sisters in the Lord really need to get a clue and get back into your Bibles and start being faithful Bereans and test the spirits to see if they are from God or not.
If they dont stack up with Gods Word flee from these movements.
And I know I may sound harsh my brothers and sisters but it is my passion that you do not get caught up in the great lie that is going through the church.

2Thess 2:10-16

10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,
14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.
16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace,

A Double Minded Man Part 2

"A double minded man is unstable in all his ways."
Whenever I hear this verse I think of Rick Warren.
It never ceases to amaze me why people still worship at the altar of strange fire Rick Warren has created.
Maybe it has to do with 2 Timothy 4:3 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers."
People should have gotten a clue when Rick had to use 15 different Bible translations in order to twist and bend Gods Word into Ricks word.
Here is a new article by Paul Proctor
http://www.newswithviews.com/PaulProctor/proctor90.htm

Whatever it takes

New article by my brother in the Lord and fellow musician Scott MacIntyre.
These days pastors who should be protecting the flock are allowing all kind of New Age and Occult methods to be introduced to the flock. Such as Lectio Divina, centering prayer and all things Emergent. Pastors have built such huge dynasty's on their own power they will now do whatever it takes to keep butts in the seats in their huge man made buildings.
They sell out the flock for their own praise and glory.
Here is the article.
http://www.woodandsteel.net/pastor.htm

Something to remember

I have been reminded today and yesterday one thing from two men God has put in my life. David and Steve.
One is unfamiliar with my site.
One that has never been to my site before.
When I am reminded being in discernment ministry twice and around the same verse I prick up my ears and listen.
Here is the verse that came to mind
Philippians 1:9-10
"9 And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in knowledge and all discernment,
10 that you may approve the things that are excellent, that you may be sincere and without offense till the day of Christ,"

1 Corinthians 13:1
"1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal."
1 Corinthians 13:3
"3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned,but have not love, it profits me nothing."

The key word here is using discernment with love. If I dont my gift of discernment will not benefit many in the Body of Christ because you will not listen.
Sometimes its hard to do.
Sometimes I fall short and forget the love.

For the record I do not hate Rick Warren. I do hate the fact that his ministry and teaching has deceived the Body of Christ.
The best way to combat guys like Rick.
Read your Bible.
It took Rick 15 different translations to bend scripture with his will. Comparing what Rick says and does to the light of scripture will solve any problem with what Rick does quick.
The same goes for Willowcreek-gosh folks they were closed for Christmas get a clue. Maybe its time to stop sending away for materials from this church even if its only a couple hundred bucks.
You want to combat Emergent Church and there rituals and vintage spiritual disciplines.
Read your Bible and if what they do isnt in there reject it.
And that will be a real quick AMEN.
New Apostolic Movement-Ted Haggard , C Peter Wagner etc...
Read Matt 24, Luke 18:8.
Domionism.
Reread Matt 24, Luke 18:8
See the best way to combat false teaching, prophets and apostles is to know the truth and the only way to know the truth is to read your Bibles.
Great deception is not coming-its HERE.
You need to get into a church where the pastor does expository preaching.
Forget about your felt needs.
The Bible is still the only truth we have and will be the only truth we have.
And face it people are not reading their Bibles or no longer even think Gods word is true.

Some people are trying to sway you in another direction though Ted Haggard states in Christianity Today "Haggard is telling his congregation, Think big. Think about the whole world. The Bible does not tell you everything you need to know."
Here is a link to that article
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/011/20.41.html
Know we need to know that Teds statement is a lie from the pit. But thats all the more reason we pray for these false prophets, false apostles and false teachers.

Here is the con folks the enemy is trying to pull you away from your bibles and good expository preaching.
And he is using the top leaders in Christianity to do this.
The Bible is still infallible as it was when it was written. And the Holy Spirit will continue to lead you into all truth.
don't believe the lie or you may end up here.
2 Thessalonian 2:11-12
"11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

I believe this is happening now so Im begging you to get your noses back into Gods Word and be like faithful Bereans and see if what your pastor is teaching is the truth, lie or just fluff.
With fluff (Joel Osteen) or lies (name any Word of Faith pastor-or anyone with the name tag apostle or prophet) you may fall into the enemys trap and fall into the strong delusion that is sweeping our country.

Always hold to the integrity, inerrancy, and inspiration of the Bible, the whole Bible, and nothing but the Bible.

New article by Berit Kjos on Brian McLaren

Great article on what Brian McLaren really believes
http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/006/emerging.htm

New article on The Da Vinci Code by Paul Proctor

Something to think about from my brother in the Lord- Paul Proctor.
http://www.worldviewweekend.com/secure/cwnetwork/article.php?&ArticleID=535

The Gospel?

I just finished watching a movie titled "The Gospel."
Now I love Fred Hammonds music as well as Kirk Franklin.
They are both very talented musically and I love the way they put a song together.
So the music was great.
The movie though was spiritually shallow.
They sang a lot about Jesus and God and had many uplifting parts in the movie.
Most of the scenes were shot in a church.
Never once was the Gospel of Jesus Christ mentioned-ever.
Kinda odd for a movie titled "The Gospel."
The tagline of this movie is "See it! Live it! Spread it!"
To which I would just say.
See what?
Live what?
Spread what?
Since the gospel was never given.
Good soundtrack but don't expect anything of spiritual substance here.
Also because of some scenes I was suprised to see that the movie got a PG rating.
It did have a nice Prodigal son type theme.
But for a movie titled "The Gospel" you would not know who Jesus really is or know what the gospel is by watching this movie.
Perhaps it was not there intention to present the gospel.
Silly and sad isnt it?

Drums and Worship Music Styles in the Christian Church

(I am going to dance around a bit in this article I hope it does not cause you to stumble)
Let me state that I love the drums. Ever since I received my first set of Ludwig Red sparkle bongos and then later a full drum kit I discovered a passion for percussion.
The first time I really started thinking about drums and their use in worship was when I first saw Alex Acuna playing a bata drum on a Ron Kenoly video.
Here is a article that speaks about the bata drum and its origins.
http://www.batadrums.com/understanding_rhythms/talk.htm
I was in session with Alex at his home studio when I asked him how he could play a bata drum when it was used to speak to false gods by the Bantu/Yoruba people.
Alex simply replied "I don't speak to their gods when I play the bata."
There are many types of different drums all with different colors and tones. I do believe any instrument can be played to honor God, the enemy or the flesh.
Sandy Simpson states in his article about testing music in the church
"Instruments are neither good nor evil in themselves. It is rather the motive and intent in using musical instruments that gives the interpretation or spirit to the music and lyrics. It is the musician that gives the instruments and vocals the words and music that create any particular mood, message or atmosphere.
Musical instruments have been around since before the flood (Gen. 4:21). All musical instruments can be used to glorify the Lord, or glorify something else. I dont agree with the current teaching, in some circles, that drums and percussion instruments were not used in Biblical times for worship, therefore we should not use them now. Those who teach these things are ignorant of Scripture. The timbrel or tof was a percussion instrument with a membrane. The drums varied in size and were played either with bare hands or with sticks. (Ralph Gower, The Manners And Customs Of Bible Times, pg. 309.) The timbrel or tambourine can be found being used for worship in the following passages: Gen. 31:27, Ex. 15:20, Job 21:12, Ps. 81:2, 149:3, 150:4. Many noisy instruments such as cymbals and horns were used in worship: Ps. 81:1-3, 150:3-5, 2 Sam. 6:5, 1 Chr. 13:8, 15:16, 15:28, 2 Chr. 15:13. So apparently it is not the noise level but the motive and intent of the people playing the instruments that count.
Click the link below to read the entire article it is very good.
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/testingmusic.html

So I want to say I agree that it is not the instrument but the attitude and heart of the musician playing the instrument.
I do however think some of the music coming out lately has its origins in the forms of demonic influence.
And many of the dark artists out there will admit to being influenced by demons.
Why would we even want to even imitate the style from bands named have names like Venom, Extreme Noise Terror, Napalm Death, Unleashed, Darkthrone, Vicious Circle, Carcass, Morbid Angel, Cannibal Corpse, Dismember, Deicide, Entombed, Cradle of Filth, Necropolis, and Obituary.
The members of the German Death Metal group Absurd, composed of three high school students (Hendrik Mobus, Sebastian Schauscheill, and Andreas K.), murdered a 15-year-old classmate in April 1993. The group also called themselves "Children of Satan." Band leader Hendrik Mobus stated in an interview that we are at "the dawn of the New Aeon, when Christendom will perish and a neo-heathen state will arise" (Lords of Chaos, p. 260).
In April 1996, a group of young people with intimate connection with Death Metal, who called themselves the Lords of Chaos, went on a crime, arson, and murder spree in Fort Myers, Florida. They burned a Baptist church and a large tropical aviary containing a collection of exotic birds. They burned down a former Coca-Cola bottling plant. They then murdered the director of their high school marching band, blasting him in the face at close range with a shotgun, because he had stopped them from vandalizing the school the day before. The leader of the group, 18-year-old Kevin Foster, was referred to by the others as "God." Before they were caught by police, the group
In December 1997, 14-year-old Michael Carneal shot and killed three students and wounded five others at a high school in Paducah, Kentucky. One of the injured was paralyzed from the waist down. All of the targeted students were participating in a prayer meeting sponsored by a Christian club. Carneal was a member of a group of students who claimed not to believe in God and who heckled the prayer meetings. A lawsuit brought after the crime alleged that Carneal was influenced by violent movies, videos, and music.

Ok lets put on the brakes here. I know these are extreme examples but they are becoming more common place these days.
And I ask you .
Is this a music style we should copy in the church simply because we want to relate with the unsaved becoming all things to all men?
In 1 Corinthians 9:19-23, the Apostle Paul shared his attitudes and practices as one called to reach others for Christ. His commitment to this goal was so strong that he summarized his outlook in this way: "I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some" v. 22 doesn' doesnt mean we go down to a bar and get drunk with someone to lead them to the Lord.
Or watch a porno movie to reach someone addicted to sex.
Back to drums
What about the false new Apostolic Movement made up by such false prophets and false apostles such as C. Peter Wagner, Ted Haggard, Dutch Sheets, Cindy Jacobs and all the folks on the Elijah list?
There move is to normalize pagan ceremonies trying to Christianize them.
I watched a DVD last night which demonstrated this.
It showed this group with Leon Siu and some Indian folk going nuts (shades of Brownsville).
At one point the crowd was whipped into such a frenzy one guy who was beating himself with his hands whipped off his shirt and undershirt and kept up with wild hand motions while only in his shorts. All the time with women dancing tambourine's going over there heads. All they were really missing was the golden calf.
This was a Christian gathering folks.
Read more about that gathering here.
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/lehmann2.html

Didnt we learn anything from the false movements at both Brownsville, Pennsacola and Toronto.
Brownsville I think was just more of a platform for the pastor there and his mediocre blues ripoff music to the public.

Foolishness and serious lack of discernment from the folks at Integrity music.

Now lets look at the other side.
People will state that drums are bad in church because a repeative beat can send someone into a altered consciousness.
While that is true if it were just a drum circle but a drummer is also a time keeper, repetition is part of the job. And there is usually melody and other bits which fill a song which keeps the drums in the background keeping time.
Does the beat move you?
Yes.
4/4 and 2/4 time(used often in contemporary music) will make the body rock front to back.
3/4 and 6/8 time(used often in waltz's and every Irish song I have ever heard) will make you sway back and forth.
Its just the way the body responds.
In summary why I dont believe that every music style is evil.
But music sans lyrics alone is not neutral.
Drums have a great use in church if used with discernment and caution.
Hey its not about us.
Lastly to you drummers and perc players out in my opinion I would stay away from any instrument that has odd carvings or something you dont understand.
There are plenty of instruments out there that are just plain with no carvings on it. You wouldnt want to play something that was dedicated to some dark god.
And most of all seek your musical expression from inspiration from the Holy Spirit.
Sing a new song.

2 Corinthians 5:15-17

15 and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.
16 Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer.
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Romans 12:2

2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

If music is neutral?

"We must be willing to adjust our worship practices when unbelievers are present. God tells us to be sensitive to the hang ups of unbelievers in our services."
(Rick Warren, quoted in "Church Growth Gone Mad," By Clay Miller, Associate Pastor, Outreach Ministries, Grace Community Church)

There’s no such thing as Christian music. There are just Christian lyrics. To insist that all good music came from Europe 200 years ago; there’s a name for that - racism.”
(Rick Warren, SuperConference 2003, at Liberty University)

"Saddleback is unapologetically a contemporary music church. We’ve often been referred to in the press as “The flock that likes to rock.” We use the style of music the majority of people in our church listen to on the radio. Years ago, after being frustrated trying to please everyone I decided to survey our church. I passed out 3 x 5 cards to everyone in the Crowd service and asked them to write down the Call Letters of the radio station they listened to...What we discovered was that 96% of our people said they listened to middle-of-the-road adult contemporary music."
(Rick Warren, Selecting Worship Music, July 29, 2002)

"I will admit that we have lost hundreds of potential members because of the style of music Saddleback uses. On the other hand, we have attracted thousands more because of our music."
(Rick Warren, Purpose Driven Church, p. 285)

"If you were to tell me the kind of music you are currently using in your services I could easily describe the kind of people you are reaching, without even visiting your church. I could also tell you the kind of people your church will never be able to reach."
(Rick Warren, Selecting Worship Music, July 29, 2002)

Well we all know that Rick Warren is a master at appealing to peoples flesh.
Thats why Rick asked unsaved people how to build his church instead of seeking how to build a church according to the scriptures.
Is music neutral?
Is it just the lyrics that matter.
Anyone listening to some of the new heavy metal music/death metal (whatever they are calling it these days) inspires aggressive behavior.
Lyrics are what define a song?
Please.
Can you even tell whats being said in some of the songs played by some of the heavy metal bands?
And its the musicial intro that is sans of lyrical content that sets the pace or groove for how you act.
(Head for your honey or the mosh pit)
Remember Walk This Way by Aerosmith?


Rick Warren is wrong on all counts.
Again people speaking about what they dont know anything about.
Like music, Jesus, The Bible etc..
Here is a article sent to me from a mate in New Zealand.
Enjoy!

IF MUSIC IS NEUTRAL...

The foundational philosophy for both Contemporary Christian Music (CCM) and Contemporary Christian Worship (CCW) is the idea that music is neutral or amoral and that any style of music can be used in the service of a holy God. Consider the following examples:

A representative of Contemporary Christian Praise music: "...we need to stop advocating one music style over against another. Our tradition, our style, our renderings have to do with ourselves, not with God." --Anthony Gentes, The Worship Thought, July 2003.

A representative of Contemporary Christian Music: "There is no such thing as 'gospel music.' Every style and form of music can become gospel, whether it's jazz, pop, rock 'n' roll, or rap." --Don Butler, Gospel Music Association

A representative of contemporary Southern Gospel:
"God speaks through all different kinds of musical styles" --Bill Gaither

I have some questions to ask about this philosophy:

If all musical styles are neutral, WHY IS IT THAT THE MOVIE "TEXT PAINTER" CAN USE DIFFERENT STYLES OF MUSIC TO CREATE DIFFERENT EMOTIONS? This can be illustrated by the old silent movies. There were no words to the movies except the text shown on the screen, but the musicians (sometimes alone pianist or organist; sometimes an orchestra) could create feelings of fear, haste, happiness, sorrow, romance, anger, indignation, tension, uncertainty, merely by changing the style of music. If there was a scene with the bad guy slowing sneaking up on the unsuspecting, sleeping heroine, the music would be tense and gloomy. If upbeat classical or peppy march music were put to that type of scene, the movie would be like a comedy, because the acting would be saying one thing and the music would be saying something different. The movie text painter can create different emotions with different styles of music, because music is not neutral.

If all musical styles are neutral, WHY CAN AN ORCHESTRA CREATE DIFFERENT FEELINGS BY CHANGING THE STYLE OF THE MUSIC? Orchestral music ordinarily doesn't have words; it is strictly music; but anyone who knows the power of music can testify that each style of music played by the orchestra creates different feelings and thoughts in the listeners. Put a different way, if all musical styles are neutral, why does a military march never sound like a romance ballad or a baby lullaby sound like a punk rock concert? The reason is that music is not neutral; music is a language.

If all musical styles are neutral, WHY DO TAVERNS AND NIGHT CLUBS ALWAYS PLAY A CERTAIN KIND OF MUSIC? This is the case, because music is not neutral, and taverns and bars play a kind of music that fits the lifestyle of that setting. Music is a language.

If all musical styles are neutral, WHY DID THE OLD BLUESMEN BELIEVE THAT CERTAIN KINDS OF RHYTHMS CAUSED WOMEN TO BE MORALLY LOOSE? For example, Professor Longhair's boogie-woogie piano music is said to have caused women to "jump and wriggle" in a lascivious manner. Robert Johnson, one of the pioneering bluesmen who died young because of his womanizing, said of his blues rhythms: "This sound affected most women in a way that I could never understand." B.B. King, one of the biggest living names in the blues, said in his autobiography, "The women reacted with their bodies flowing to a rhythm coming out of my guitar" Those are powerful statements about the effect of a specific kind of music and rhythm. Were the bluesmen confused about their music? No, music is not neutral; music is a language.

If all musical styles are neutral, WHY DO ROCK MUSICIANS CLAIM THAT THEIR HEAVILY SYNCOPATED RHYTHM IS SEXY? Following are just a few of the many quotes we could give along these lines.

"Rock music is sex. The big beat matches the body's rhythms" (Frank Zappa of the Mothers of Invention, Life, June 28, 1968).

"That's what rock is all about--sex with a 100 megaton bomb, the beat!" (Gene Simmons of the rock group Kiss, interview, Entertainment Tonight, ABC, Dec. 10, 1987).

"Rock 'n' roll is 99% sex" (John Oates of the rock duo Hall & Oates, Circus, Jan. 31, 1976).

"Rock 'n' roll is pagan and primitive, and very jungle, and that's how it should be!" (Malcolm McLaren, punk rock manager, Rock, August 1983).

"The great strength of rock 'n' roll lies in its beat ... it is a music which is basically sexual, un-Puritan ... and a threat to established patterns and values" (Irwin Silber, Marxist, Sing Out, May 1965).

"Rock and roll aims for liberation and transcendence, EROTICIZING THE SPIRITUAL AND SPIRITUALIZING THE EROTIC, because that is its ecumenical birthright" (Robert Palmer, Rock & Roll an Unruly History).

"Rock and roll is fun, it's full of energy ...It's naughty" (Tina Turner, cited in Rock Facts, Rock & Roll Hall of Fame and Museum).

"Rock and roll was something that's hardcore, rough and wild and sweaty and wet and just loose" (Patti Labelle, cited in Rock Facts, Rock & Roll Hall of Fame and Museum).

Rapper Missy Elliot's 3rd album, "Miss E ... So Addictive," is described as "a seductive cocktail of quirky rhythms and hypnotic beats."

The blues music (predecessor to rock and roll) that was played in Gayoso brothels in Memphis, Tennessee, in the early part of the 20th century is described as "sexually syncopated sounds" (Larry Nager, Memphis Beat: The lives and Times of America's Musical Crossroads).

Why do these secular rock lovers describe the heavily syncopated rock rhythms as sexy, primitive, seductive, rough, hardcore, loose, wild, and hypnotic? What do they know, or what are they admitting, that the Contemporary Christian Music crowd denies? They are admitting that music is not neutral and that the heavy backbeat of rock & roll is sensual. Music is a language.

If all musical styles are neutral, WHY DOES ONE OF THE FOREMOST EXPERTS IN DRUMMING CLAIM THAT CERTAIN RHYTHMS CAN ALTER THE STATE OF ONE'S CONSCIOUSNESS? Mickey Hart, drummer for the Grateful Dead, has traveled the world researching the power of drums. In his book Drumming at the Edge of Magic he observes: "Everywhere you look on the planet people are USING DRUMS TO ALTER CONSCIOUSNESS. S I've discovered, along with many others, the extraordinary power of music, particularly percussion, to influence the human mind and body. . . . There have been many times when I've felt as if the drum has carried me to an open door into another world." Why does he say this? Because he knows that music is not neutral, that certain music and certain rhythms produce certain results, that music is a language.

If all musical styles are neutral, WHY WOULD A VOODOO PRIESTESS SAY THAT HER GODS RESPOND TO CERTAIN RHYTHMS? Consider this quote carefully: "The rhythm is more important than the meaning of the words. Our gods respond to rhythm above all else" (a Macumba priestess in Brazil, quoted in African Rhythm & Sensibility). The voodoo priestess says that because she knows that music is a language and that certain rhythms interact with the spirit world.

If all musical styles are neutral, WHY DID THE 1960S LSD-NEW AGE GURU TIMOTHY LEARY SAY, "DON'T LISTEN TO THE WORDS, IT'S THE MUSIC THAT HAS ITS
OWN MESSAGE" (Leary, Politics of Ecstasy). Leary said that because he knew that music is a language.

If all musical styles are neutral, WHY DID JIMI HENDRIX, ONE OF THE FOREMOST EXPERTS IN ROCK RHYTHM, CLAIM THAT CERTAIN MUSIC CREATES A CERTAIN ATMOSPHERE? "Atmospheres are going to come through music, because the music is a spiritual thing of its own" (Jimi Hendrix, rock star, Life, Oct. 3, 1969).

If all musical styles are neutral, WHY DID ROCK AND ROLL HISTORIAN ROBERT PALMER SAY THAT THE (IM)MORAL INFLUENCE OF ROCK AND ROLL INHERES IN THE RHYTHM? "I believe in the transformative power of rock and roll S this transformative power inheres not so much in the words of songs or the stances of the stars, but in the music itself--in the SOUND, and above all, in the BEAT" (Robert Palmer, Rock & Roll an Unruly History).

If all musical styles are neutral, WHY DID THE HOWARD HANSON, WHO DIRECTED THE PRESTIGIOUS EASTMAN SCHOOL OF MUSIC FOR 40 YEARS, SAY: "MUSIC CAN BE PHILOSOPHICAL OR ORGIASTIC. IT HAS POWERS FOR EVIL AS WELL AS FOR GOOD"? (cited from Frank Garlock's The Language of Music; Dr. Garlock is a graduate of Eastman and sat under Hanson).

If all musical styles are neutral, WHY DID THE WORLD FAMOUS CONDUCTOR LEONARD BERNSTEIN SAY THAT MUSIC IS A LANGUAGE THAT REACHES THE HEART: "Music doesn't have to pass through the censor of the brain before it can reach the heart. An f sharp doesn't have to be considered in the mind; it is a direct hit, and therefore all the more powerful"?

If all musical styles are neutral, WHY DOES THE BIBLE SPECIFY THAT BELIEVERS SHOULD SING A CERTAIN KIND OF MUSIC? "Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord" (Ephesians 5:19). The word "spiritual" means set apart for God, different from the things of the world. A tavern or nightclub owner would never play psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs over the music system, even if the words were not included. It would create the wrong atmosphere. Why, then, should believers use the same music that tavern owners use to entertain and lull or stir the drinking crowd to their lascivious pleasures?

If all musical styles are neutral, THAT MEANS THAT THE DEVIL HASN'T CORRUPTED MUSIC, but such an idea is nonsensical. The devil hates God and has attempted to corrupt everything that God has created. He is called "the god of this world," and he has corrupted religion, literature, art, fashion -- you name it. Music is one of the most powerful influences in society. To think that the Devil has not corrupted music to his own wicked purposes and for the enticement of fallen man is contrary to everything the Bible teaches us.

If all musical styles are neutral, WHY DID JOSHUA DISCERN THAT THE MUSIC COMING UP FROM THE CAMP OF ISRAEL WAS "A NOISE OF WAR"? (Exodus 32:17). If music is neutral, how could he make any judgment at all about what he was hearing?

If all musical styles are neutral, WHY DO CHILDREN REACT DIFFERENTLY TO VARIOUS KINDS OF MUSIC? One of my readers submitted the following, "Why did my children behave properly during the traditional morning service, but jump around like they had 'ants in their pants' for 45 minutes during the loud rockish night service at a church we were visiting?"

A QUESTION ANSWERED

Question: You mean that a b flat note has a moral quality, Answer: No, a b flat note is nothing in itself, and a b flat note is not music. But when that B flat is put together with other notes and components of music and is made into a musical piece, that musical piece becomes a language (music is rightly called the "language of the heart") and has a moral quality. It is like the alphabet. The letter "d" has no moral quality in itself, but when it is placed with other letters to make words and sentences and paragraphs, that piece of writing assumes a moral quality. The letter "d" can become either "DIVINE" or "DEVILISH." It is the same with art. Lines and circles in themselves have no moral quality, but when they are placed together into a piece of art, it ceases to be neutral and becomes a language that spells out a certain message in this world and has a certain influence upon men.

We conclude that music is not "neutral" or "amoral." Music is a language, and in the Christian realm the message of the music must match the message of the lyrics. There are many styles of worldly music that preach a message that is contradictory to the Bible and therefore cannot be used in the service of a holy God.

I close with the testimony of a man who left the contemporary music scene after having led contemporary worship teams in two churches:

"I am now convinced that God will not accept our worship when it is offered with music styles that are also used by pagans for their immoral practices. If I am wrong, why was he so harsh in judging Israel when they sacrificed to him using the pagan high places and rituals? He is a jealous God. If you grasp this principle alone, it will change for ever the way you lead a worship service. S The true heart of worship is the heart that bows before God and submits to his Word, no more and no less" (Dan Lucarini, Confessions of a Former Worship Leader, p. 57).

First Baptist Church Update

I wrote a couple of posts about why I left First B in Modesto due to the fact that they were teaching Lectio Divina to junior high age children. Since that report they pulled what they had on the website and renamed things a bit. You see when light is shed on darkness-darkness will always run and hide.

Here is a update.
Let me make this clear in my meetings with the leadership in that church they were not upfront or honest with me.
Before we had the meeting I had been in the music office and saw all kind of Emergent church material.
In the meeting I tried to give them an out since many churches are going the Emergent church route and merely stated that if thats the path they choose to go fine but I was not going that route with them.
They stated they were not.
That simply wasnt true.
They pulled the reference to Lectio Divina and restated Lectio as praying the Bible.
They changed the Sanctum event to Deeper Focus.
Not one of the church leaders were at the two Sanctum events to see what was going on.
To this date they are still intent on teaching non biblical or as they call it , Vintage Spiritual Disciplines which is a Emergent church term.
And they are still stating they desire to create an atmosphere of interactive,participatory and multi sensory discovery of God that is both ancient in its roots and using the technology of today.
They are also using prayer stations.
I caution all parents that would send their children to something like this in any church.
And I have witnessed first hand what goes on at First B.
Parents do a web search on vintage spiritual disciplines and prayer stations.
These methods are not biblically based whatsoever.
If your children would attend anything as such where someone would try to create an atmosphere of God.
I can almost guarantee you that it will not be God.
Do a web search as I have advised and then search scripture to see if the methods being used are based on something the Bible mentions.
don't just take my word for it check the scriptures to see if it is true.
Your children could be heading for very real spiritual danger.