The No Goofy Zone Discernment Ministry

The No Goofy Zone is a discernment ministry for saved born again Christians and all who are seeking the truth.We expose non-biblical trends in the church. We are making material available to advance understanding of issue's which endanger Christianity. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit.

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Former drummer for Gary Lewis and The Playboys and The Coasters. Tim has also played with Paul Baloche, Lincoln Brewster, Darlene Zscech and Hillsongs, Jeff Fenholt, SteveCamp among others. Tim founded The Simply Agape Project in 2001 to get free Christian music to the troops. Recordings have been made with Tim, and friends Alex Acuna, Abe Laboriel SR, Justo Almario,Steve Camp , Jared Ming and some wonderful Independant Christian artists.The Somebody Brave CD also features words of encouragment to the soldiers from Pastors, Moms, Dads, and Lt Col Brian Birdwell a Pentegon 9/11 survivor Tim is married to Donna Wirth and has four children Alan 25,Steven 23, Brittany 22, Bethany 21. Tim has played in numerous churchs as well as shows on TBN. Tim has also performed on JCTV on the show Generation Worship featuring worship leader Jared Ming. Tim has a book published worldwide titled "Pass The Plate And Let Us Prey" (My Search For Black and White Christianity in a Gray Nation)

Tuesday, September 13, 2005

The Purpose Driven Golden Calf Part Two "Making the church a business".


James 3 :15-16" This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. But where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work."
1 John 4:5-6 " They are of the world:therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us: he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error."

"Our goal is not to turn the church into a business," insists Warren, the founder of Saddleback megachurch in Lake Forest, Calif. (Taken from a article in Business week titled Earthly Empires http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_21/b3934001_mz001.htm)

The in another article from a link on the same page titled "Evangelism Gone Entrepreneurial "
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_21/b3934015_mz001.htm
Question to Rick Warren
Q: Why do we see so much entrepreneurial activity among evangelicals?
(Rick Warren)A: We've always been entrepreneurial.

And here is the definition of entrepreneurial

Adj.
1.
entrepreneurial - of or relating to an entrepreneur; "entrepreneurial risks"
2.
entrepreneurial - willing to take risks in order to make a profit

Again the sound of confusion and talking out of both sides of his mouth.

Now to be fair to Rick Warren he is not the only one that has made the church into a business.
Lets look at what TD Jakes has to say about this.

“I think that Jesus is the product,” says author and televangelist T.D. Jakes, who is currently bishop at The Potters House, a primarily African-American Pentecostal church in Dallas. “When the product is excellent, it doesn't require a big sales pitch.”
This is from a article titled " Do God and money mix?
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7346446/
Also has some lovely quotes from that smiling boy from Texas J.O.
But yet when Jesus sent his apostles out to preach He sent them with no money. Look at Luke 9.
Jesus had a robe not a wardrobe.
Peter and John were broke Acts 3:6
Paul had a day job as a tentmaker and supported himself and his companions Acts 18:3
And check out how Paul lived- I Corinthians 4:11-13
Many mega church pastors should hang their in shame after reading this. Many live way above most of their congregation.
Is this because of Gods blessing?
Nope
2 Peter 2:3 "In their greed they will make up clever lies to get hold of your money. But God condemened them long ago, and their destruction is on the way".

Lets look at another spirit that has been let loose in the Purpose Driven church-
Because in all this we need to learn Ephesians 6:12" For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

Rick and his camp have unleashed a spirit called Shepherding
here is a article about the original movement which was condemened as being unscriptural during the 70's
http://mb-soft.com/believe/txc/shepherd.htm
In a article by Chuck McAllister on Ricks toolbox titled "How to transition an established church" . In other words how to clone Saddleback. Here are a couple of quotes from that series.

"Possibly, you will face challenges from staff, particularly those who were present when you arrived. You must deal with those swiftly and decisively, preferably putting those issues to rest before you start the transition process. It will mean dismissing staff if they do not "buy in" to the transition. "

"The senior pastor must assume full responsibility to hire or fire staffThis alleviates the need for a personnel committee and helps the staff understand how the chain of supervision operates. "

Here is a link to the series of articles http://www.pastors.com/article.asp?ArtID=4702
There is nothing even remotely biblical about this. You won't find this kind of structure in the New Testement. Its just not there. Again this is the enemy just repackaging a movement that was condemed at large by the church in the 70's. Redressed -same spirit-not of God.
If you want to produce earthly fleshy fruit do church this way.
If not go back to your Bibles to see what structure Jesus through the Holy Spirit has put in place for His church.
The church was never made to be run by one man check the book of Acts for yourself and see how the church was run.
Plus these new mega pastors are accountable to no one. They may say they are but don't you believe it. They are corporate CEO's who surround themselves with people who had better not disagree with them. And if they do they will be sacked.
This is corporate America with stained glass windows, entertainment, and a message and a gospel that can't save anyone.

1 John 1:19 "These people left our churches because they never really belonged with us; otherwise they would have stayed with us. When they left us, it proved that they do not belong with us."

2 Thess 2:3" Let no man decieve you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a great falling away first, and that man of sin will be revealed, the son of perdition;"

The next article will be a continuation of this article titled "Making church a business Part Two Rick Warrens roots and Hostile takeovers."

Then we will get into "Sounds of singing in the camp? Rick Warrens low view of music in the church. More seeker driven confusion."

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