The No Goofy Zone Discernment Ministry

The No Goofy Zone is a discernment ministry for saved born again Christians and all who are seeking the truth.We expose non-biblical trends in the church. We are making material available to advance understanding of issue's which endanger Christianity. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit.

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Location: Piqua, Ohio, United States

Former drummer for Gary Lewis and The Playboys and The Coasters. Tim has also played with Paul Baloche, Lincoln Brewster, Darlene Zscech and Hillsongs, Jeff Fenholt, SteveCamp among others. Tim founded The Simply Agape Project in 2001 to get free Christian music to the troops. Recordings have been made with Tim, and friends Alex Acuna, Abe Laboriel SR, Justo Almario,Steve Camp , Jared Ming and some wonderful Independant Christian artists.The Somebody Brave CD also features words of encouragment to the soldiers from Pastors, Moms, Dads, and Lt Col Brian Birdwell a Pentegon 9/11 survivor Tim is married to Donna Wirth and has four children Alan 25,Steven 23, Brittany 22, Bethany 21. Tim has played in numerous churchs as well as shows on TBN. Tim has also performed on JCTV on the show Generation Worship featuring worship leader Jared Ming. Tim has a book published worldwide titled "Pass The Plate And Let Us Prey" (My Search For Black and White Christianity in a Gray Nation)

Thursday, May 24, 2007

A couple of really good articles

These are from my friend and brother in the Lord Chris Rosebrough. Chris is doing a really fine job on shedding solid scriptural light on a variety of current subjects.
Here are a couple of fine websites that are currently sources of solid information.

here are the articles from Chris-

Did you know that Rick Warren and Saddleback church will work with and help ANY church become "Purpose-Driven" regardless of its 'doctrinal convictions'?

Here is what Saddleback Church said last week:

"There are Purpose Driven congregations in more than 200 different denominations and associations. Our desire is to work with denominations to strengthen their churches. Each church can maintain its own heritage and doctrinal convictions while cooperating with others on accomplishing the five purposes" (Online Source)
By their own admission Rick Warren and his Purpose-Driven ministries will 'work with' and 'strengthen' ANY church.

Where does this 'strengthening' and 'working with' take place?

Answer: At a Purpose-Driven Church Pastor Training Conference

What happens at these Pastor Training Conferences? Here is what the Purpose-Driven website says:

The Purpose Driven model offers leaders in your church a unique, biblically-based approach to help them establish, transform, or maintain a balanced, growing congregation. What is a balanced, growing congregation? It’s one that is growing larger in numbers as it grows deeper in carrying out the God-given purposes for churches... (Online Source)
Conference Sessions include workshops on:

• Targeting Your Community for Evangelism - Understanding Who You are Trying to Reach
• Attracting a Crowd - How to Design Seeker-Sensitive Services
• Building Your Congregation - Turning Attenders into Members
• Structuring Your Church on Purpose - How to Organize Your Church for Growth

Did you know that these training sessions are attended by Mormons, Catholics and Jews?

Here is what Rick Warren told USAToday about his "Purpose Driven" training programs:

"Warren's pastor-training programs welcome Catholics, Methodists, Mormons, Jews and ordained women." (Online Source)
Wait a minute! Mormons and Jews are NOT Christians. How on Earth can a "Christian Pastor" 'work with' them and help them 'strengthen' and grow their congregations?

Here is Rick Warren's explanation for training Mormons and Jews. Said Warren:

"I'm not going to get into a debate over the non-essentials. I won't try to change other denominations. Why be divisive?"
Since when is helping to strengthen and grow a non-Christian church a "non-essential"?

Christians are not called upon to help train non-Christian churches on how to strengthen and grow their congregations! Those congregations are sending people to hell? We don't want them to be healthy, strong and growing. We want those non-Christian churches to shrink and die by having their members repent and believe in the true gospel.

Plus, God forbids Christians to do this! Here is what the Bible says on this matter:

2 Corinthians 6:14 Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15 Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever? 16 Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said, “I will dwell in them and walk among them; And I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 17 “Therefore, come out from their midst and be separate,” says the Lord. “And do not touch what is unclean; And I will welcome you.
Sorry, Warren's explanation demonstrates a complete disregard for clear Biblical teaching! Warren said that he didn't want to be 'divisive' but in reality Warren IS being divisive by flatout disobeying God and helping to strengthen and grow these non-Christian sects.

Sadly, Rick Warren is trying to portray himself as being 'magnanimous' by working with leaders from all faiths and "building bridges" with them. But, when you compare what he is doing to what God’s Word tells us to do you'll discover that the correct word to describe Warren's behavior IS "divisive". The reason for this is because he is being openly rebellious to God's clear commands which forbid Christians to be in partnership with false churches and unbelievers.

For those of you tempted to think that USAToday got their facts wrong, please consider this: The week that the USAToday story broke, Rick Warren's website said this about the article:

Click Here to Visit the website

Rather than repudiate the article's claims regarding Warren's training of Mormons and Jews, Rick Warren instead asked for people to pray that the article would be successful in introducing the "The Purpose-Driven Life to a whole new secular audience."

Rick Warren obviously approved of this article and its contents.

I’ve had time to think and process Warren’s response regarding disciplining Rupert Murdoch.

I think his response is tragic. The fact that is being lost on everyone is that we are ultimately talking about the eternal salvation of Rupert Murdoch. I don’t want Murdoch to face God’s wrath on Judgement Day. I don’t want Murdoch to perish for eternity in the fires of hell and neither does Jesus Christ.

Warren’s response can be summed up this way, “Murdoch isn’t a member of Saddleback church therefore it would be inappropriate for me to discipline him.”

This is a a dodge and a bad one at that. It is well documented that Rick Warren has claimed to be Murdoch’s pastor. This was a claim that Warren made, not Murdoch.

What Rick Warren seems to be forgetting here is that he has a profound opportunity to show the LOVE of Jesus Christ to Rupert Murdoch by disciplining him.

Warren has spent so much time flying around the world telling everyone how important it is to ‘do the Bible’ and show the love of Christ by feeding the poor and taking on global giants, that he has forgotten that discipline is another way which pastors are called to ‘do the Bible’. Discipline provides pastors with a rare and special opportunity to show the love of Christ to those under their pastoral care.

Here is what the scriptures say:

1 Corinthians 11:32 But when we are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the world.
Notice that this verse clearly says that the Lord disciplines us so that we may NOT be condemned along with the world. This is a very loving and positive aspect to discipline.

Hebrews 12:5 And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? “My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. 6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every sn whom he receives.”
Again, notice that the Lord disciplines those HE LOVES. We don’t like to be disciplined and disciplining someone is never easy and never fun. But this passage tells us that discipline is a loving act on God’s part towards his children.

Rick Warren needs to show the full spectrum of Christ’s love to Rupert Murdoch, a man whom he is pastoring.

Contrary to what Warren’s defenders have said, it is absolutely fitting and appropriate for Warren to discipline Murdoch, call him to repentance, and publicly call for him to dismantle his pornography empire.

This is literally THE MOST loving thing that Warren could do for Murdoch.

If Murdoch repents of his sins and receives Christ’s forgiveness then he will not be condemned with the rest of the world. He will be forever grateful to Rick Warren for showing him Christ’s love by disciplining him.

But, if Warren doesn’t show Christ’s love to Murdoch by disciplining him and Murdoch is judged to hell, he will FOREVER be asking the question, “Why didn’t Rick Warren show me Christ’s love by disciplining me? How come my pastor didn’t love me enough to call me to repentance?”


Anonymous Anonymous said...

I attend Saddlback Church and Rick Warren is my Pastor. I also acknowledge my sinful nature, offer my repentance to the Lord, know that Jesus died for my sins, and by giving my life to Him, I am forgiven and have the future of eternity with God.

With that said, Rick almost never gives this message. The comments in this Blog would appear to be God inspired, and I pray that Rick hears these words.

1:25 PM  

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