The No Goofy Zone Discernment Ministry

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Former drummer for Gary Lewis and The Playboys and The Coasters. Tim has also played with Paul Baloche, Lincoln Brewster, Darlene Zscech and Hillsongs, Jeff Fenholt, SteveCamp among others. Tim founded The Simply Agape Project in 2001 to get free Christian music to the troops. Recordings have been made with Tim, and friends Alex Acuna, Abe Laboriel SR, Justo Almario,Steve Camp , Jared Ming and some wonderful Independant Christian artists.The Somebody Brave CD also features words of encouragment to the soldiers from Pastors, Moms, Dads, and Lt Col Brian Birdwell a Pentegon 9/11 survivor Tim is married to Donna Wirth and has four children Alan 25,Steven 23, Brittany 22, Bethany 21. Tim has played in numerous churchs as well as shows on TBN. Tim has also performed on JCTV on the show Generation Worship featuring worship leader Jared Ming. Tim has a book published worldwide titled "Pass The Plate And Let Us Prey" (My Search For Black and White Christianity in a Gray Nation)

Wednesday, August 03, 2011

The Signs And Wonders Movement Hit The Nazarene Denomination

I had started out with this as a review of Dan Bohi’s preaching but I want to get more into the signs and wonders movement (which in my opinion Dan is part of) and what the scriptures teach us about signs and wonders and how God speaks to us today.

D Martin Lloyd-Jones states

“Let us imagine I follow the mystic way. I begin to have experiences; I think God is speaking to me; how do I know it is God who is speaking to me? How can I know I am not speaking to man; how can I be sure that I am not the victim of hallucinations, since this has happened to many mystics? If I believe in mysticism as such without the Bible how do I know I am not being deluded bu satan as an angel of light in order to keep me from the living and true God? I have no standard..The evangelical doctrine tells me not to look into myself ,but to to look into the Word of God; not to examine myself, but to look at the revelation that has been given to me. It tells me that God can only be known in His own way, the way the way which has been revealed in the scriptures himself.

But Dan says in the M11 conference around 10:31″I believe its not going to come with better preaching.” Then he goes on to say “How many sermons do we have to hear?

Dan speaking about the anointing coming back (I didnt know it had left and Im sure it hasnt with good godly preachers who rightly divide the Word of God).

Dan goes on to say at around 11:31 “I dont think the preachers have to preach that good. ” “I dont think they have to plan so hard.” “I think they just need to flow in the spirit”

Dan then talks about releasing the prophetic at around 12 he states “Theres a power in His Word” “And I’m not talking about quoting verse’s and chapter.” Im not talking about having a good sermon”.

I want everyone though to listen to Dans speech themselves just google Dan Bohi and M11.

I found two statements (among others) very disturbing.

At around 21:30 Dan talking about Jesus in the desert “The third time He didn’t say its written He states “It says”. “I think when the word and the spirit come together it no longer remains logos it becomes rehema,it becomes revelation. And see without revelation we perish.

In my opinion Dan does not do a good job in rightly dividing the Word of God here. Yes Jesus did say “It is said” but my Lord was referring to Deut 6:16 where it was written. Dan goes the route many other Word Faith teachers go and try to compare this to rehema which means something different to the Word Faith folk even though logos and rehema are used interchangeably in the New Testament. Word Faith folk tend to turn this into a power struggle stating you can’t have power without the rehema.

Just one example here about what Im talking about. In 1 Peter 1:23-25, Peter describes how we are born again by the word of God. In verse 23, when he saying that the Word of God (by which we are born again) is incorruptible, Peter uses the Greek word “logos” for the “word” of God. In verse 25, after contrasting the Word’s incorruptibleness with the corruption of the world, Peter restates that the Word (by which the gospel is preached to us) endures forever. This phrase “endures forever” is simply a rephrasing of the description “incorruptible,” only in this verse, Peter uses the phrase, “the word of the Lord” to refer to the “word of God” in verse 23. But, this time Peter switches and uses the Greek word “rhema” for the “word” of the Lord. This is yet another occurrence where we see “rhema” and “logos” being so indistinguishable that they are used interchangeably.

The fact that “rhema” and “logos” are used interchangeably by New Testament authors is yet another demonstration that there is not enough distinction in the Bible between the two words to substantiate the Word Faith doctrine in which “rhema” words and “logos” words are two different categories.

Again its all about power with these folks. And I tend to see it with this camp as mans power not God’s. Gods Written Word does have power the Word Faith movement has tried to blur the lines here and turn it into something its not.

Then in 25:10-25:41 Dan compares what he was doing to what Benny Hinn does. Go listen for yourselves. Now I want to say that Dan does not mention Benny by his last name. But I dont know any other Benny who does what Dan was speaking about.

Again in my opinion I believe this is textbook Ken Hagin/Benny Hinn/Word Faith false teaching. But you need to go listen to Dan and decide for yourselves.

Now does God really speak to us like that? At specific times in the day (people love to quote exact times I believe because it empowers them as spiritually superior).

From Gary Gilleys book “Is That You Lord”?

“How does one know that he is hearing the voice of the Lord in the first place? Is it possible that the voice many believe they are hearing is the voice of their own thoughts,imaginations,desires, or something more insidous?”

“Many Christians now rely on far more inward promptings than on their Bible knowledge to decide what to do in a situation.”

“The final court of appeals determining the identity of the voice of God, if it is such, must be the direct instructions or at least the examples found in Scripture. The Scriptures claim to be the Word of God (2 Tim 3:16,17; 2 Peter 1:20,21) . They are inspired once for all, by the Holy Spirit, enabling prophets and apostles, using their own personalities to write Gods Word as He intended (Heb 1:1,2; 2:3,4; Acts 5:12, 2 Cor 12:12:. I believe with the closure of scripture , direct, infallible,authoritative revelation from God has ceased for this age. (ReV 22:18,19;Eph 2:20;3:5;Jude 3,4,;2 Peter 3:2).

It is instructive to note that paul wrote his last epistle tp pastor/friend Timothy about leading the church of God, he did not encourage Timothy to focus on new revelations, impressions, feelings or hunches. Rather he continually turned him to the Word of God and the doctrines contained therin (2 Timothy 2:2-14,15; 3:15-17; 4:2-4)

Donald S Whitney states

“The evangelistic method of Jesus and the apostles was not to urge people to seek direct experiences with God; instead they went about preaching and teaching the Scriptures (see Mark 1:14-15)

The bigger problem I see with Dan as well as the Nazarene denomination is that this is just more experience based Christianity wrapped up in a different package than what the Emergent Church is selling. Its no wonder the emergent Nazarenes don’t seem to have a big problem with Dan.

Again its the same old stuff I saw in the Word faith churches I was in as a young Christian.

Does the Scriptures teach that there is a big end time revival with Joels or Elijahs army leading the way with great signs and wonders doing greater things than Jesus did.

NO

The scripture teaches that there will be a great falling away (2 Thess 2:3)

Lying signs and wonders”For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.” Matt. 24:24

2 Thessalonians 2:9-15

“Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.”

Hardly what is being preached from many pupits today.The thing that really flagged me on all this was not just the “touch not mine anointed” and warning that the wrath of God would come on me if we touched Dan Bohi.

It was the fact that people (some who are friends) seemed to forget this verse

Acts 17:11
New King James Version (NKJV)

11 These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.

No problem examing what Paul said.

Why not the same standard with Dan Bohi or any one else for that matter?

Do you think maybe God told them so?

Well I would encourage you to not just take my word for it. But go listen to the sermons and see for yourselves. Then come to your own conclusions.

More on the signs and wonders movement to come!

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