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Former drummer for Gary Lewis and The Playboys and The Coasters. Tim has also played with Paul Baloche, Lincoln Brewster, Darlene Zscech and Hillsongs, Jeff Fenholt, SteveCamp among others. Tim founded The Simply Agape Project in 2001 to get free Christian music to the troops. Recordings have been made with Tim, and friends Alex Acuna, Abe Laboriel SR, Justo Almario,Steve Camp , Jared Ming and some wonderful Independant Christian artists.The Somebody Brave CD also features words of encouragment to the soldiers from Pastors, Moms, Dads, and Lt Col Brian Birdwell a Pentegon 9/11 survivor Tim is married to Donna Wirth and has four children Alan 25,Steven 23, Brittany 22, Bethany 21. Tim has played in numerous churchs as well as shows on TBN. Tim has also performed on JCTV on the show Generation Worship featuring worship leader Jared Ming. Tim has a book published worldwide titled "Pass The Plate And Let Us Prey" (My Search For Black and White Christianity in a Gray Nation)
posted by Tim Wirth | 12:56 PM
37 Comments:
Tim, Chuck Smith's dad and Calvary Chapel attack Calvinism. There is so much misunderstanding out there about what Calvinism really is and straight out lies about it, though I think it is done in blindness and ignorance. After all, Satan is the father of lies and he uses people to lie. If Calvery Chapel get it wrong about Calvinism, what else do they get wrong? The whole full-orbed gospel! The flow down effect is sort of like where his son is heading, onto the submerged rocks of deception. Shipwreck of their faith!
If people cannot prove that the truth claims of Calvinism are wrong they misrepresent Calvinism and distort and twist the truth about Calvinism and that is wicked. Dave Hunt and Moriel Ministries distort and twist the truth claims of Calvinism, as do so many others all around the world.
Here is some info about Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel's distortions of the truth:
An Open Letter to Calvary Chapel of Ft. Lauderdale Arminianism permeates this church and its stance on doctrine. This is an open letter to Dr. Norman Geisler, Pastor Bob Coy and the congregation of Calvary Chapel of Ft. Lauderdale, Florida which challenges them to rethink their position of the Gospel of Jesus Christ in light of the Bible.
The Error of Synergism - As Exemplified By Calvary Chapel by John Hendryx
A Biblical Critique of Chuck Smith's: "Calvinism, Arminianism & The Word Of God" by Ray Kane In this article we will look at the unbiblical and incorrect statements of Mr. Chuck Smith of "Calvary Chapel" fame, with respect to his study on election and predestination. His study reflects not only his own personal views but that of the leadership of most, if not all Calvary Chapel churches. The "Calvary Chapel" collection of churches represent a sort of pseudo denomination that branched out from Mr. Smith's original mega church out in Costa Mesa California. These folks are correct about many spiritual issues but they are dead wrong about their views on Calvinism as I will point out in this study. My comments are in bold black print and the text of Mr. Smith's study is in unbolded blue print. Please read this study carefully and completely. It is not meant as an exercise in speed reading. You are bound to miss some important points if you do not spend quality time digesting this material.
Is your intent simply to slander Calvary Chapels world wide and Chuck Smith?
How is that beneficial to the advancement of the Kingdom of God?
Jason not to be impolite but you really need to read all the articles.
I do not agree with my friend and brother Douglas on his Calvinist and comments on where Calvary Chapel stands on Calvinism.
I am not a Calvinist. I do agree with much on other things Douglas comments on.
Chuck Smith JR is no longer a member of Calvary Chapel and Chuck Smith has been one of the only widley known preachers to take a stand against both Contemplative New Age prayer (which his own son promotes). Chuck Smith SR has also taken a very strong stand against Rick Warren and purpose driven which I applaud.
So maybe your comment was to Douglas or not.
I do very much encourage folks to check out Calvary Chapel.
Thats where I stand on that.
But Douglas does have every right to comment on this blog and even though I very much disagree with much of Calvinism Douglas is a very dear brother in the Lord to me.
Tim Wirth
PS I also very much like Moriel Ministries (Jacob is a warrior for the Lord as well as Dave Hunt.
I have many friends who disagree and thats ok
Tim Wirth
This is the exact reason Jesus came to the world - many Christians are still blind. He came here so that those who do not see may see. Christian living is not about pointing fingers on which church gets it perfect, which church understands and gets everything right. Name a church that claims all truth and has not misrepresented anything by error - name one. My point is this: Christianity is about transforming lives. The way of the cross is in human relationships. The church is about counting others better than yourselves. Calvary Chapel is all about that. The fathers Stanley and Smith are all about that - transforming the lives of the generations they can relate to. Smith Jr. is transforming lives of Generation X. All this time you have spent in creating to produce all these arguments about which church has done wrong, and in what measure have they strayed away from the truth, have gone futile while the rest of these Christian leaders are out there, transforming lives -emptying themselves and investing in God's kingdom. Time is indeed valuable. Are you going to spend it arguing about these men and these churches and causing divisions within the Christian community? or are you going to pick up your own cross and join them in transforming other lives for Christ?
Chuck Smith JR and his agenda has nothing to do with relatability for the youth. JR's agenda wont transform kids into anything but New Age folowers which has nothing to do with scripture or Christianity.
If Jesus, Paul or Peter still walked the earth their message would not change to accomidate the young.
It would be what it is.
Truth.
Thats not what Chuck JR is preaching if you really take a look at what he is promoting.
Tim Wirth
Tim
I must tell you how frustrated and saddened I am about your attack on Chuck Jr. I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish. I've attended his church for the last five years (and his dad's for several years before that). I can tell you from personal experience he loves Jesus and the word as much or more than anyone I know. He is also one of the most intelligent men I've ever met. He is very well read on many subjects but I know he treasures the Bible above all. He is independent and not afraid to try new things if it will bring someone closer to Jesus. The difference between him and other pastors is he is willing to try new approaches or to do things differently even if it means making a fool of himself for the sake of the Lord. When I think of the greatest commandment (....love the Lord with all your heart, soul and mind...) I think of Chuck Smith Jr. I have read his book and I can see how you can take things out of context just like anything else. I can also tell you that if you knew the man personally and have heard him teach the word you wouldn't be attacking him. Even so, being a Christian you should know better. Maybe you should try being more constructive with your time rather than spreading rumors on the internet that can be so hurtful. Seriously if you think it is your mission to trash someone in such a public forum(in the name of God) I would hope you would really know you're subject well and make sure you have all of you're facts straight. Try praying about it first. I don't mean to sound so harsh but I do take offense at you and other people like you that are so flippant and irresponsible about things they say about other people especially, especially being a Christian! In Christ, Robert Thompson
Robert: Thank you for your comments and I can tell you how sad I am for you that youreally dont get it and are deceived.
You mention going to Chuck Smith SR church for several years.
What do you think Chuck Smith SR stand is on his own son?
Check it out.
Also wordly wisdon or inteligence has nothing to do with spiritual soundness.
Which Chuck Smith JR seriously lacks.
There is nothing new under the sun so the new things JR brings forth is the New Age.
Back in the day it was Gnostics.
Same stuff different day.
I dont spend countless hours on JR I just report and let you decide.
Do you know how to tell the counterfiet?
Fill yourself up with some much of Gods word (not JR's word) you can tell truth from false.
But anyway thank you veru much for your comments
Tim Wirth
I am deeply saddened and turned to God by the frightening ignorance of so many who view themselves as spiritually correct. I can tell you from 10 years of personal experience and a lifetime of religious study that Chuck Smith Jr. is the most earnest, genuine, trustworthy human spokesperson for the word of God that I have ever heard. Without out any ego-serving rigidity he explores God's word with an open heart and as such helps open the hearts of others. God, in his perfect wisdom, has given us a sincere soul-searcher and Christ follower in Chuck Smith Jr. MP Kelly
MP Kelly
just a reply to anonymous.
Dont rely on man. Rely on God alone for the foundation for your faith in Jesus Christ. Rely upon the Word of God alone for understanding of God. I am not attacking you, just admonishing you in love. Chuck Smith Jr. has aligned himself with Catholics and the Emerging church. Both which are anti-biblical movements to take you away from the sufficiency of the Word of God. Stay close to Jesus, not men.
i can not say anything but excellent stuff about chuck smith jr. who is possibly one of the most generous, kind hearted, devoted person to God, and to people. I have known him personally since 1998, he is never too tired to answer an email, give advise, and even give bible studies in emails just for me personally and others.He has always been there for me and all the people he knows. he is not tired (even when he is tired) to visit people in the hospital and pray for them. even sends prayers on the email. He suffers alongside people in suffering. he has seen people die before his eyes, friends even. Chuck jr. has taught me to worship God with my entire heart, soul and mind on how to sing to God songs of prayers and praise. He is a true worshiper of God. he was always his own worst critic at times. he is a loving father of 5 children and 7 grandchildren. he is devoted to his wife.
he loves to read, he loves to run, and do athlectic activies, he is a buff, pastor. he loves the outdoors. he has taught me much, examples are how to be alone with God, how to see God in nature, how to listen for His voice.
How to not rely on the pastor but for God to be your every need. chuck in my opinion has had to live up to quite a reputation because of his father and the articles in the newspaper. he is a great man of God and a hero in my book. Any pastor who can be real , can be honest, that is what is to be worthy of honor. I think if one person is suffering in any shape or form we need to pray for them and not bash on them and their particular views. i think it is good that chuck loves the unloved no different than Jesus, loving the unloved woman at the well, with how many husbands? and no husband now, ...Chuck jr. has seen a lot in his life time, more than us. Think about it being a pastor's kids is not easy all eyes focused on you at all times expecting you to be a perfect angel. Also the discipline behind closed doors, (not saying anything neg. against his parents ) however; i do believe it would be hard to meet up to standards especially being a child of a pastor. then if you suffer with depression to go with it , God forbid that word. Well, I know truly people with derpression can not help it ...it is not brought on for sympathy or because they did not pray it off. i know that everyone in life lives with some kind of thron in the flesh, we need to pray for our brother in Christ ..stop casting stones.
we can get many cast back upon us, as well
in the end what matters like my grandmother said
"in this life all we have is Jesus.
i can not say anything but excellent stuff about chuck smith jr. who is possibly one of the most generous, kind hearted, devoted person to God, and to people. I have known him personally since 1998, he is never too tired to answer an email, give advise, and even give bible studies in emails just for me personally and others.He has always been there for me and all the people he knows. he is not tired (even when he is tired) to visit people in the hospital and pray for them. even sends prayers on the email. He suffers alongside people in suffering. he has seen people die before his eyes, friends even. Chuck jr. has taught me to worship God with my entire heart, soul and mind on how to sing to God songs of prayers and praise. He is a true worshiper of God. he was always his own worst critic at times. he is a loving father of 5 children and 7 grandchildren. he is devoted to his wife.
he loves to read, he loves to run, and do athlectic activies, he is a buff, pastor. he loves the outdoors. he has taught me much, examples are how to be alone with God, how to see God in nature, how to listen for His voice.
How to not rely on the pastor but for God to be your every need. chuck in my opinion has had to live up to quite a reputation because of his father and the articles in the newspaper. he is a great man of God and a hero in my book. Any pastor who can be real , can be honest, that is what is to be worthy of honor. I think if one person is suffering in any shape or form we need to pray for them and not bash on them and their particular views. i think it is good that chuck loves the unloved no different than Jesus, loving the unloved woman at the well, with how many husbands? and no husband now, ...Chuck jr. has seen a lot in his life time, more than us. Think about it being a pastor's kids is not easy all eyes focused on you at all times expecting you to be a perfect angel. Also the discipline behind closed doors, (not saying anything neg. against his parents ) however; i do believe it would be hard to meet up to standards especially being a child of a pastor. then if you suffer with depression to go with it , God forbid that word. Well, I know truly people with derpression can not help it ...it is not brought on for sympathy or because they did not pray it off. i know that everyone in life lives with some kind of thron in the flesh, we need to pray for our brother in Christ ..stop casting stones.
we can get many cast back upon us, as well
in the end what matters like my grandmother said
"in this life all we have is Jesus.
I came across this blog by accident. But really, I do not believe in accidents. God always leads us.
How much this saddens my heart you could never ever know.
I know Pastor Chuck Smith Jr. and I would hope that if anyone is going to attack the man, they would spend some time getting to know the man.
He exudes the love of Christ, which is more than I can say for so many others who call themselves Christians.
I know how your attacks sadden and hurt him.
If that is your intention, it is working.
But, I have seen a man not swayed by "other men".. a man who is seeking revelation from God, not from "other men"... a man who's heart is filled with love for even those that throw these stones.
How very sad that Christians are represented and are becoming more known for their ugliness towards each other than their love for one another..the fact that they hurt their own, their un-acceptance of so many and their isolationistic qualities. (So many are down right mean and nasty!)
The fact that so many churches stand alone and not together is a huge example (in Orange County, CA).. We Christians are not united, because we spend too much time judging each other!
And we have the right to judge Islam?!! Or any other religion for that matter! We destroy and kill and maim each other with words, not swords, so I guess that makes us so much better.
How very, very sad...
I must add that this article gets more hits than any. Im not sure how in pointing out error it is taken as a personnal attack on Chuck Smith JR. Im sure Chuck Smith JR is a nice fellow or so it seems. But even his own father has distanced himself because of his own sons error. People really need to check out the facts on what Chuck Smith JR is teaching and judge that against scripture.
Everytime a ministry points out error we are than said to attack.
Chuck Smiths JR promotion of contemplative prayer and emergent ideas will cause others to stumble.
Its sad to see your heroes fall I know (and I say this with all sincerity). But its time to put our faith in scripture not in man.
No matter how nice a guy they are.
Enough said.
Tim
I'll Let Chuck Smiths JR wordsspeak for them selves. And Im sorry if you dont see the error.
Another Quote from Chuck Smith Jr's discussion board (posted 10/31/05, posted on this site 1/31/06):
"Jesus Christ opened a door between humans and God, and I do not believe there is anyone in all of human history who has ever walked with God or known God or been embraced by God who has not passed through that door. But I also doubt that everyone who has walked through the door knows that its name is Jesus. Thankfully we can still reach our destination even though we don't know the name of every street we travel."
Chuck Smith Jr. answers the Question: Do Good People Go to Hell? His answer: "No one's doctrine is perfect. I suppose that in some ways, we are all as far from the truth as the Mormons are from orthodox Christian theology. We will not have to pass a doctrinal exam to enter the kingdom of heaven. But we will have to pass another type of exam (i.e., 2 Corinthians 5:10). Were we good people? Did we follow Jesus in His compassion to others? "
I just want to say that Chuck Smith Sr. came to my high school in the 70's and delivered the gospel during the lunch hour. I accepted Jesus as my Lord and have had a rocky road, but Jesus has always been in my heart.
Chuck Smith Jr. helped me and a group of mutual friends through the tragic death of a friend - he put it all together for all of us, participated in the funeral, and was "totally there for all of us" loving us as Christ loved us.
He is a Christian, his dad, a Christian, and I think the point is, if we are loving one another as Christ loved us, where do we find the time to attack other Christians?
It's about loving each other, and if Chuck Jr. is no longer leading Capo Calvary, that's OK - I hope he is finding peace, writing books, fellowship minded, finding a way to worship in or out of church, and that he is loving his dad and his dad loving him.
Christ, rescue us from the pit of being an attacker of other parts of your Body, thank you Jesus for letting us know you through your Word and through You,
Amen!
Brothers and Sisters...
We are all in the hands of the potter. These discussions about two men of God are dangerous. God is at work. His Will is His Will and what is happening is for us to draw closer to Him not to discuss who's right or wrong. God had used both these men to bring truth in our lives. My prayer is for the gift of reconciliation for these two family members. Lets give God the Glory for the great things He has done and will continue to do through His servants. And this Gospel shall be preached.....to all people!
Chuck Smith Jr. is the most humble man I have ever met. I miss his sermons and wish him well. Like you told me so many times " May God bless you".
Phil
I've known Chuck Smith, Jr. for twelve years. I miss him terribly. He has the heart the the Lord desires in all of us. He is a "true shepherd" to say the least.
Chuck, if you are out there.... remember me... you and Rod attended Steven McLin's funeral for me and spoke... I thank you so much.... He was killed in a car accident in 2002..... he loved you... you touched his heart and my heart.
Chuck knows what it is like to suffer ADD and depression... he speaks the truth... I was so excited to see God minister to Calvary Chapel Capistrano Beach... the hand of the Lord is there...
"IF WE ARE NOT AGAINST JESUS CHRISTS' TEACHINGS THEN WE ARE FOR THEM." Both Chuck Smith Sr., and Chuck Smith, Jr. are so desirous of the miracles and signs and wonders that the apostles performed and experienced. Why do you suppose these miracles haven't been seen or done within the Calvary Chapel places, because of "US" and "OUR LACK OF FAITH AND TRUST IN THE LORD." Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not ON OUR OWN UNDERSTANDING.. SEEK THE LORD AND HE WILL GIVE YOU THE DESIRES OF YOUR HEART."
I both love and trust Chuck Jr. and Chuck Sr., as they have both wonderful messages.
I can truly say that Calvary Costa Mesa sent me away with my two children when they were young, because I could not pay the day care as a separated wife from Mark Ruby. I went to Calvary Chapel Capistrano beach and my life had changed... They were all supportful and helped me with food, etc.
A few years later, when my son was killed I was handed a check to help pay for funeral expenses because his death was such a horrible, sudden tradegy..... Please feel free to contact me Chuck, Jr. I am trying to find you as I now life in Santa Fe Springs, California and attend MORNING STAR Church in Whittier. Pastor Jack just told me that you were gone and have been for the past eight months because of Depression..... call me.... 562-944-0101
GODSPEED in your healing... I miss your messages as they changed my life and touch my heart.... I belonged... and still do....
Wow, stumbled upon this blog searching for some updated info on pastor Chuck Smith jr. I may be too late but Tim your reading words and do not know the heart of the man. I can only say when he preached to me, spoke the word and even listened it was like fresh water. He taught the Word. I know that because I've yet to hear or find anyone teaching the Word like him since. I pray for him and his family and love him dearly as a brother in christ, as I do you now. Chuck was not one for silly agenda's. Peace to you
This is written in support of Chuck Smith Jr. Eternal blessings of God to all who have also done so.
Chuck was our Pastor for 22 years, consecutive. We parted from organized church when Chuck departed, and have been heart-broken since he left. We even left the area and moved to the PNW...our church -our spiritual home - was broken. The Calvary Chapels umbrella messed up hugely and now one of the few men who teaches and lives by Jesus' teachings was departed from public teaching. The healings and corrections and blessings and guidance and knowledge and wisdom and more corrections(!) and freedom that our family has received abundantly and directly as a result of Chuck (Jr.)'s commitment to share Jesus,- would take months to tell you about. His commitment to living a true and genuine life, in the manner of Christ, through teaching and by example, brought my older son back to Christ, led my husband to Christ, raised my younger son, and helped me to learn compassion and forgiveness. The people who's lives have changed permanently positive is endless - there should be a site for them. If any out there knows Chuck please tell him. He is loved and appreciated. Chuck teaches Jesus's words and experiences, and we greatly miss him; we stay committed to Jesus forever.
And if anyone knows if Chuck has an on-line stream site, please e-mail us at watcohc@msn.com. Thank you for the opportunity to express. here.
Revival took place in the 60's, and what a time it was!! Chuck Sr taught the Word expository style, and I learned so much. I then moved to Chuck Jr's church in Dana Point, then Capistrano Beach. All churches have personalities. I know my Bible well and read it faithfully, cover to cover, and have for years. I am not fooled easily theology-wise. Chuck Jr is a total Bible scholar and has the God-given ability to illuminate the scripture in a way that reflects current life issues. I would hope that all pastors would be able to, like Chuck Jr, use Scripture to impact, reflect on and effect our lives today. Chuck is open minded and culturally relevant, without deviating one iota from the Bible. What a breath of fresh air he is!!! For there to be this attack on his theology is a shame and a spectacle to unbelievers. To those who are guilty of this, please read your Bibles and approach the situation in a Godly way and be open to the Holy Spirit. I am appalled. But you know what? God is using this time in Chuck Jr's life for his benefit and God's glory. Keep your chin up Chuck, I love you.
Janie you state that you read your bible but have you compared the teachings and information provided to what scripture teaches. I beleieve our love for pastors and personalities many times blind us to whats being taught )look at Benny Hinns many followers). Lectio and contemplative has its roots in the Catholic church traditions not the Bible. Chucks own dad disagreed with his sons theology which Im sure resulted in a lot of pain over the choice to take JR out of fellowship with Calvery. But it was the right choice because of what JR taught.
So your statement
"For there to be this attack on his theology is a shame and a spectacle to unbelievers. To those who are guilty of this, please read your Bibles and approach the situation in a Godly way and be open to the Holy Spirit."
is misleading.
The Holy Spirit is never open to ideas that are in conflict with scipture and based on man made traditions and rituals.
I again suggest you search the bible and show how it allows for contemplative.
Tim
I just read through the posts on this website. They are sad. They are an insult to the tradition of Christianity. They are all reflective of the disease of protestantism - mindless debate, hypocrisy, ignorance, and secularism - such are the fruits of the so called reformation.
I too was looking around and trying to find where Chuck Jr has gone to. I was lead to Jesus through Chuck Jr teachings and miss hearing his teachings now. I moved and went to other Calvarys but never felt at home like I did at Capo Beach Calvary so I now drive over 1/2 hour to get there. But, sadly Chuck Jr is no longer there. I have been searching for him. If anyone knows how to reach him please email me at jk51958@yahoo.com as I would love to talk to him again.
I don't care what people say about him I KNOW he is a good man and loves Jesus more then life itself. I know Chuck Jr. tries his best to walk and talk and love like Jesus did. So say what you want about him. As for me, Well I would go anywhere to hear Chuck Jr teach again. No one has ever been able to show me the bible like he has.
I miss him and so badly want to hear him teach again.
I wish I had seen this much earlier but I only accidently found it tonight. Most of you really should be ashamed and go back to your Bible's and to your libraries, and actually study and listen because I don't believe you are really listening. Why are you afraid of change? Why are you afraid of a ministry that seeks truth and allows anyone to question the truth? Is your own belief SO weak that you can not bear the thought of the same? What if Jesus Christ had your attitude? Would he have died on the cross for you anyway? Then why would you take the position of the one casting the stone? Shame on all of you. Chuck Jr would forgive you I know because he's as close a person that I have ever met, to someone actually trying to maintain compassion. And compassion was what Jesus was about. Sorry, for my part, I guess I lack a little of that compassion and don't take kindly your arrogant ignorance and hipocracy. You know in the beginning, after Jesus's death I mean, there were many factions of christians, around 60 I have studied. The reason you have the books in what you call the bible and the word of God, is basically, because the group with the most money and power, KILLED all the others. So, basically, what you acclaim to be THE religion, is really a result of murderous attrition. So, wouldn't you think that if a person was half.way intelligent they would try to find out if what they have been taught to-date, is the truth? Any religion that can not stand a FIGHT for truth, is a CULT (period!) I attended Chuck Smith jr's church for about 5 years and if I had not been kidnapped in Latin America, which changed my life and direction somewhat, I would be there now. And Chuck if you read this, you can eat at my table anytime pal. God bless you and thank god for you! Amen....p.s. I am not anonymous. The name is Woody, Woodrow Bowling to be exact.
I wish I had seen this much earlier but I only accidently found it tonight. Most of you really should be ashamed and go back to your Bible's and to your libraries, and actually study and listen because I don't believe you are really listening. Why are you afraid of change? Why are you afraid of a ministry that seeks truth and allows anyone to question the truth? Is your own belief SO weak that you can not bear the thought of the same? What if Jesus Christ had your attitude? Would he have died on the cross for you anyway? Then why would you take the position of the one casting the stone? Shame on all of you. Chuck Jr would forgive you I know because he's as close a person that I have ever met, to someone actually trying to maintain compassion. And compassion was what Jesus was about. Sorry, for my part, I guess I lack a little of that compassion and don't take kindly your arrogant ignorance and hipocracy. You know in the beginning, after Jesus's death I mean, there were many factions of christians, around 60 I have studied. The reason you have the books in what you call the bible and the word of God, is basically, because the group with the most money and power, KILLED all the others. So, basically, what you acclaim to be THE religion, is really a result of murderous attrition. So, wouldn't you think that if a person was half.way intelligent they would try to find out if what they have been taught to-date, is the truth? Any religion that can not stand a FIGHT for truth, is a CULT (period!) I attended Chuck Smith jr's church for about 5 years and if I had not been kidnapped in Latin America, which changed my life and direction somewhat, I would be there now. And Chuck if you read this, you can eat at my table anytime pal. God bless you and thank god for you! Amen....p.s. I am not anonymous. The name is Woody, Woodrow Bowling to be exact.
Guys, it's hurting on my part that you discussed things here that are not edifying. Chuck Smith Jr., needs prayer not a malicious attack. Let's remember him in our prayers.
This is something that sometimes happens to the children of renowned ministers. Francis Schaeffer's son Frank is Greek Orthodox now. What needs to be recognised is why this happens and how such people can prevent their children from being drawn off the path - although sometimes it happens later in life when the person has gained complete responsibility for their own thoughts and directions. I suppose that even sons and daughters of remarkable ministers have free will!
In Schaeffer's case, I think there was a lot of resentment at being brought up in a vast movement and a desire to carve out his own path. Listen to an interview with him on http://www.steelonsteel.com (04/09/2008); or read his book, "Crazy for God".
Just reading of all of this support for Chuck Smith jnr, I know little of him, so feel I can be objective, he seems very popular, do his supporters speak so highly of Jesus or is it jnr who receives all the glory, he might be all of these things that people say, a good man, a knowledgeable man, a giving man and all of the other things they said but at the end of the day he is just a man, prone to making mistakes just like all mere mortals, I have seen pastors put up on pedestals before and it is very dangerous as is trying to bring in new doctrine which is not in the bible. People don't worship this man or any other, fix your eyes on Jesus, seek his Spirit and don't go with feelings, they will betray you every time, Ross
Anyone seen this?
Maybe you've projected on to this person something out of your experience, research, or background that doesn't apply to his situation.
Titus 1:15
I believe the reason that no one responded to the post above yours, was the writer said it himself - he doesn't know.
Ignorance is as ignorance writes, and therefore no discussion on that post.
Ross, you said it right.I fell into the new age After becoming a born again believer, believe that !? In the very early 70's .I had no christian fellowship,had became born again thru a tract.my sister came home from college with the Bagadvagida, and i had been a christian for a few months or so, didnt know doctrine but loved God so much, but fell away to follow hinduism even though i still held onto God that I met thru Jesus.Eventually i found myself not really wanting the Jesus God so much as just the Universal God. It is very deceptive.I came back to the Biblical truths through God leading me into all truth by his Holy Spirit. I was willing to believe the whole Gospel and everything in the Word.The fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom.Hold to it and you will be safe.Believe Every Word Jesus says.Not just some of it.Keep yourselves in the "simplicity" of the Faith.Like children believing their Father.I get so freaked out to hear these decieved people! it is so freaky to me ! Like apostacy has blinded people ! some i think are not quite understanding fully yet .I did not come to grips with how far he had gone ,for awhile.I still just thought he was a pioneer like his dad (early Jesus People movement when other churchs would not accept those "dirty hippies"..sort of thing.)But I take Gods word for what it says and have to say, I Love God more than I love CSJR.!!!!!
Ross, you said it right.I fell into the new age After becoming a born again believer, believe that !? In the very early 70's .I had no christian fellowship,had became born again thru a tract.my sister came home from college with the Bagadvagida, and i had been a christian for a few months or so, didnt know doctrine but loved God so much, but fell away to follow hinduism even though i still held onto God that I met thru Jesus.Eventually i found myself not really wanting the Jesus God so much as just the Universal God. It is very deceptive.I came back to the Biblical truths through God leading me into all truth by his Holy Spirit. I was willing to believe the whole Gospel and everything in the Word.The fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom.Hold to it and you will be safe.Believe Every Word Jesus says.Not just some of it.Keep yourselves in the "simplicity" of the Faith.Like children believing their Father.I get so freaked out to hear these decieved people! it is so freaky to me ! Like apostacy has blinded people ! some i think are not quite understanding fully yet .I did not come to grips with how far he had gone ,for awhile.I still just thought he was a pioneer like his dad (early Jesus People movement when other churchs would not accept those "dirty hippies"..sort of thing.)But I take Gods word for what it says and have to say, I Love God more than I love CSJR.!!!!!But am praying for him and for his dad,love them both.
"Believe every word Jesus says. Not just some of it." Exactly - God *is* alive and present, and working in the hearts of men/women striving to BE in Purpose of God's creation, which is an ongoing relationship with God and with each other as brothers.
***In that, Hippidy, C.Jr. is the immediate first to praise and honor one's desire to worship God and not a mortal man.***
...it blesses all of God's creation with the joys of Christ when the Light of the Holy Spirit begins to peek through. You can e-mail me at inspiritpeace@msn.com
As for all the other negative post-ers, this is not about Chuck at all, but it is each poster's spiritual test. The topic to vilify Chuck is error; however when viewed from the eyes of Christ, actually transforms into the blessings of Jeremiah 29:11-13, so all praise be to Yeshua!
"Get rid of all malicious behavior and deceit; don't just posture being good - be done with hypocrisy and jealousy and backstabbing." (1 Peter). "Follow God's example in everything you do, because you are his dear children. Live a life full of love for others, following the examples of Christ, who loves you and gave himself as a sacrifice (Ephesians 5)"... that you may live in Heaven on earth.
So quiet your mind and hear with your heart. Put down your sword of legalism and put on your belt and your sandals - get rid of all the harsh words and slander. The mud will be washed from your eyes, and you will think clearly and exercise self-control. "For goodness and mercy shall follow all the days of your life, and you will dwell in the house of the Lord forever."
peace be unto you all -
sandi saltiel
"Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid" (John 14:27).
Regards to Tim's Post on Chuck Smith Jr.'s Answer for "DO GOOD PEOPLE GO TO HELL?"
**I'm not here to criticize him at any point except to express my concern about the way he answered this simple question as a fellow christian.**
I am disturbed by his answer where he does NOT directly address the question.
For someone who's ordained as a pastor and who's been teaching God's words... He should know better than anyone - Yes, if that "good" person does not believe in JESUS then he/she will end up going to hell eternally(John3:16 & John14:6-7)... Jesus himself said this to his discples and followers!! I mean, what was the point that He came to this earth in the first place? Not only to be a great teacher, but most importantly he came to SAVE us from our sins. Come on people, this IS the fundamental belief that we should all have as christians! The Bible states this so very clearly.
And if a preacher does not know how to state his belief on this particular issue, I don't think I could honestly spend my time listening to his sermon...
It is interesting, Joy how you take scripture out of context and use only select verses to make what you believe is your point. But if that is your style than I shall respond in like manner (as Jesus did in engaging the woman at the well...John chapter 4):
Jesus came to save us from sin....*the sin of sitting in judgment*. To match your style of dialog Joy, I give you Luke 18: verses 26-27, and 29. God be with you.
We see that this topic has become a manner that is different than in accordance with Phillipians chapter 4, so in alliance with Matthew 10:14 and teachings of Reflexion, we withdraw from this site. All glory and praise to God, and the Son, Jesus of Nazareth who is our Christ.
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