The No Goofy Zone Discernment Ministry

The No Goofy Zone is a discernment ministry for saved born again Christians and all who are seeking the truth.We expose non-biblical trends in the church. We are making material available to advance understanding of issue's which endanger Christianity. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit.

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Former drummer for Gary Lewis and The Playboys and The Coasters. Tim has also played with Paul Baloche, Lincoln Brewster, Darlene Zscech and Hillsongs, Jeff Fenholt, SteveCamp among others. Tim founded The Simply Agape Project in 2001 to get free Christian music to the troops. Recordings have been made with Tim, and friends Alex Acuna, Abe Laboriel SR, Justo Almario,Steve Camp , Jared Ming and some wonderful Independant Christian artists.The Somebody Brave CD also features words of encouragment to the soldiers from Pastors, Moms, Dads, and Lt Col Brian Birdwell a Pentegon 9/11 survivor Tim is married to Donna Wirth and has four children Alan 25,Steven 23, Brittany 22, Bethany 21. Tim has played in numerous churchs as well as shows on TBN. Tim has also performed on JCTV on the show Generation Worship featuring worship leader Jared Ming. Tim has a book published worldwide titled "Pass The Plate And Let Us Prey" (My Search For Black and White Christianity in a Gray Nation)

Monday, March 26, 2007

Confusion in the camp- Part 2

This fits in with what was stated in the first article in this series-
This is from Lighthouse Trails.

Emergent Leaders? Paving the Way to Apostasy

Some say that some emerging church leaders (like Dan Kimball and Mark Driscoll) are not part of the Emergent movement and that the terms Emergent and emerging church mean two different things. However, according to one of the strongest catalysts for the emerging church movement, Zondervan Publishing, Kimball and Driscoll are indeed part of the "Emergent movement."
Zondervan describes its 2007 book, Listening to the Beliefs of Emerging Churches as: "Five of the emergent movement's most prominent leaders debate their views on Scripture, Christ, atonement, and more." Those five are Dan Kimball, Mark Driscoll, John Burke, Karen Ward and Doug Pagitt. Be that as it may, emergent and emerging are just words, but those who adhere to either of the concepts are going in the same direction, and as we stated in our article, Emerging Church Confusion: What Does it Really Mean?, emergent leaders are feeding the emerging church movement and making it what it is and will become. Incidentally, in Zondervan's book, Listening to the Beliefs of Emerging Churches, Robert Webber, the editor of the book, says that "traditionalists have been out of touch with cultural changes, and the contemporaries who have become so thoroughly enmeshed with and catechized by culture are out of touch with the traditions. This reality has created what seems to be an unalterable division between devoted Christians" (p. 213).
This is a scary statement, and here is why: In Dan Kimball's book, They Like Jesus But Not the Church, he makes it clear that "traditionalists" are those who take the Bible literally. Webber says those kind of Christians are out of touch with today's culture (in other words they don't wear hip looking eye glasses or wear slicked back hair or drink beer at the pubs with gays, or cuss in public). That makes them abnormal and oblivious to the world around them according to Kimball. Webber would like to see the two types of Christians (those literalists who believe everything the Bible says and those emergents) come together. He states: "What are we to do? Should we encourage the split? Or is there a new direction for us all? ... What will it take to create an Ancient-Future faith (Webber's name for the emerging church)?" (p. 213) He goes on and tells the solution: "First, an Ancient-Future faith calls us to return to our ancient roots in the first centuries of the church." He explains that these "ancient roots" include "spiritual formation" (contemplative mysticism) and he says that while there have been reforms throughout history (such as the Reformation), we do not need to be divided over them (he includes Catholicism) and says we are "connected to the same family.

This ecumenical conviction is central to an Ancient-Future Vision" (p. 214).Dan Kimball and Robert Webber have laid out what will be a persuasive argument to many who have not really taken a close look at what these emergent leaders are proposing, but take heed, if this "ecumenical conviction" comes to pass then evangelical Christians will all be practicing mantra meditation, walking through labyrinths, practicing lectio divina and doing the sign of the Cross ... and it will have far greater implications and results than just thick glasses, slicked back hair and sitting in pubs sipping beer. It will be disastrous for those who have yet to hear the true gospel message of Jesus Christ, which can save their souls.

In emerging church leader, Scot McKnight's book, The Real Mary: Why Evangelical Christians Can Embrace the Mother of Jesus, McKnight says that Protestant Christians are the only Christians who do not honor Mary. He recommends that Protestant churches all practice an "Honor Mary Day" (p. 144), saying she "leads us to a Jesus who brings redemption ... To listen to Mary is to hear the message of Jesus' death and resurrection as a mega-event whereby God established a new kind of power, a new kind of family, and a new kind of kingdom" (p. 145). McKnight describes this great event as a time when the world will come together and worship Mary.

Today, Christendom has become filled with leaders who have lost their way. If Christian leaders like David Jeremiah and Josh McDowell, who are now promoting emerging leaders, continue in their present direction, they will be responsible for countless lives losing their chances for hearing the true gospel, and these leaders will be helping pave the way for an interspiritual, mystical, apostate religion.

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