The No Goofy Zone Discernment Ministry

The No Goofy Zone is a discernment ministry for saved born again Christians and all who are seeking the truth.We expose non-biblical trends in the church. We are making material available to advance understanding of issue's which endanger Christianity. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit.

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Former drummer for Gary Lewis and The Playboys and The Coasters. Tim has also played with Paul Baloche, Lincoln Brewster, Darlene Zscech and Hillsongs, Jeff Fenholt, SteveCamp among others. Tim founded The Simply Agape Project in 2001 to get free Christian music to the troops. Recordings have been made with Tim, and friends Alex Acuna, Abe Laboriel SR, Justo Almario,Steve Camp , Jared Ming and some wonderful Independant Christian artists.The Somebody Brave CD also features words of encouragment to the soldiers from Pastors, Moms, Dads, and Lt Col Brian Birdwell a Pentegon 9/11 survivor Tim is married to Donna Wirth and has four children Alan 25,Steven 23, Brittany 22, Bethany 21. Tim has played in numerous churchs as well as shows on TBN. Tim has also performed on JCTV on the show Generation Worship featuring worship leader Jared Ming. Tim has a book published worldwide titled "Pass The Plate And Let Us Prey" (My Search For Black and White Christianity in a Gray Nation)

Monday, August 06, 2007

A Return to the Catholic Church? -long article

This ties in a James White article and a new Lighthouse Trails book from Roger Oakland " Faith Undone". And of course Pope Benedict has came out stating the Catholic Church is the only true faith in Christianity. Which of course is not true because the Catholic plan and teachings cannot save anyone from hell.Its amazing (or not) that guys like Rick Warren and most of the Emerging Church thinks its ok to team up with a church who plainly wants to bring people back into the fold of their false teachings.

From James Whites blog-
03 May
Head of the Evangelical Theological Society Swims the Tiber
About a month ago I followed a link to Frank Beckwith's blog. The article (found here) is a response to John MacArthur on the topic of Lent. As I read through the article I could not help but feeling a very odd feeling about what I was reading. The language, the sources cited, all sounded so very if I was reading the opinions of a newly minted follower of Rome, anyway, over at The Journey Home or some other RC apologetics blog or website. But Frank Beckwith? Current President of the Evangelical Theological Society? It struck me as very odd. I even opened up my blogging software to write a response, but, as is so often the case, was over-run with other duties, and had to give up on it.
The ending of Beckwith's article was particularly troubling:

Pastor MacArthur and Ms. Litz would have also discovered that some of the same Church Fathers the pastor cites to dispute the perpetuity of spiritual gifts celebrated Lent. So, one finds an ancient church, celebrating Lent according to beliefs, events, and practices found in Scripture, that is able to produce the Apostles Creed and the Nicene Creed, establish the canon, and make correct judgments (according to MacArthur) on the matter of spiritual gifts.
Not too shabby for a "pagan" church.

As my regular readers know, the "establish the canon" claim would be more than enough to get my attention. Now, I personally have little interest in the Lenten argument (outside of noting the gross abuse of such an idea inherent in Mardi Gras and the insight that provides into the thinking of many in the Roman communion), but when I saw repeated references to Roman Catholic sources, the New Advent website, etc., I could not help but think for a moment of how many have splashed their way across the Tiber due to the combination of 1) an out-of-balance view of philosophy's authority in comparison with that of divine revelation, and 2) the influence of direct and regular cooperation in moral/cultural conflicts with members of the Roman communion (i.e., pro-life, pro-family groups). I have chronicled my own journey in struggling with cultural cooperation in reference to the matter of the gospel in the past, and will not repeat it here. Suffice it to say that there have been many who, upon forging friendships based upon common moral stands (against abortion, against homosexuality, etc.), have found their commitment to the centrality of justification by faith, or sola scriptura, sliding down the list of "most important life-defining beliefs." Of course, it works both ways. Many of those on the other side of the Tiber who are involved in the same activities tend to become quite "ecumenical" and are willing to set aside dogmatic definitions, often leading to a functional inclusivism or even universalism. Of course, many in the pro-life movement are radically Marian in their devotion, but both sides can testify to seeing the theological imperatives of their respective beliefs turned upside down by the "ecumenical attraction" syndrome.
In any case, I received information today that Dr. Beckwith has, in fact, returned to the Roman Catholic communion (I saw "returned" only because it appears, from his biographical information, that he was raised in the Roman communion). Now, I have searched the web, including Dr. Beckwith's websites/blogs, and have not found any confirmation of this information. However, I have now received multiple, independent attestation to this fact. I would imagine we will, in time, be provided a fairly full apologia of his decision. At that time it would be highly appropriate to once again provide a biblical response. For the moment, there is another matter I wish to consider.
Let's ponder the hypothetical situation of a President of the Evangelical Theological Society converting to Roman Catholicism in the midst of his tenure. In 1998 I attended the national meeting of the ETS in Orlando, Florida. At one of the sessions some of the founding members were being asked questions about why they did certain things, why they wrote the statement of faith as they did, etc. A woman asked a question of the panel. "Why did you write 'the Bible alone' in the statement of faith?" The ETS statement of faith is very, very short. It reads:

"The Bible alone, and the Bible in its entirety, is the Word of God written and is therefore inerrant in the autographs. God is a Trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, each an uncreated person, one in essence, equal in power and glory."

Roger Nicole rose, slowly, and made his way to the podium. He looked out at the lady and said, "Because we didn't want any Roman Catholics in the group." He then turned around and went back to his seat. While most sat in stunned silence, I and a friend with me broke into wild applause. The brevity of the response, and Nicole's dead-pan look, was classic. Most looked at us like we were nuts, but we appreciated what he said. Here, one of the founding members made it clear that the ETS was founded as a Protestant organization and that primary to their own self-understanding was a belief in sola scriptura.
I would like to very seriously propose that any person who, while in the leadership of such an organization, choses to abandon the faith he professed when elected, and embrace a faith substantially different (which clearly the founders of the ETS intended to exclude the views of Roman Catholicism), should by any meaningful ethical standard step down from his position. The very fact that he was elected as one standing in a particular theological spectrum who, then, abandons that position in a substantive, directly relevant way, would be enough to bring a moral imperative to bear upon him. I do not believe such a person has the right to overthrow the intentions of the founders of the organization just to make a point or promote his new religious ideologies. There are, of course, many Catholic biblical societies such a person could join.
Of course, ETS has already shown that it is unable to expel from its ranks those who are Open Theists, and this due to the maddening brevity of the statement of faith. And, I have learned today as well, this entire discussion may be irrelevant, since there are already Roman Catholic members of ETS. But while Open Theism, at least in the form promoted by such men as Boyd, Sanders, and Pinnock today, was not even in the minds of the founders of ETS when they formed the organization, Roman Catholicism, as Nicole's comment shows, was. And while membership is one thing, can anyone seriously argue that the election would have gone the way it did with a confessing Roman Catholic running for the Presidency?
Now that just such a high-profile conversion has taken place, prepare yourself for the flood of substance-less "Come Home to Rome" articles. Let me make a prediction: as is so often the case, the very act of conversion, not the reasons for so doing, will be the primary focus. "He's so brilliant, if he converts, he must have a brilliant reason!" There are very few "new" reasons for conversion that have not been fully addressed in the past, and Rome's modern apologists have learned that it is never to their advantage to give air to the replies offered by the most careful of their critics. As any review of the current body of Roman Catholic "conversion stories" will bear out, fair, balanced, insightful representation of the facts related to sola scriptura, Papal primacy, the Mass, the Marian dogmas, purgatory, etc., is utterly lacking. Emotional appeals to "the ancient church," mythical references to the "unity" of Rome (those actually inside the communion and familiar with its rancorous disputes cannot help but chuckle at those blissfully naive, breathless commentaries), and the warm feeling of "coming home" to the Church (almost never anything about conversion to Christ) are the keys to successful conversioneering.
Of course, folks like yours truly will ask all the boring questions, like, "How do you escape the circularity of the Roman claims regarding papal infallibility?" or "How can Rome's claims, built as they were historically, upon such a wide variety of fraudulent documents, stand today in light of her own history?" And more to the point, "Do you really believe you can approach the Mass 20,000 times in your life and still die impure, and that this re-presentation is the same sacrifice as the perfect work you once professed to embrace?" Of course, those are the tough questions, which lead folks back to the inspired Scriptures, and that is the last place The Coming Home Network wants to go.
In any case, as sad as it always is to read of someone abandoning the gospel for the false pretenses of Rome, it really does not surprise me when it happens. Why? Because we live in a day when the faithful are being tested as they were in Elijah's day. If you do not passionately love the truth, God is under no obligation to continue to allow you to possess it. And how many do we see in the post-evangelical world who are truly passionate about the truth of the gospel? Oh, folks may be very passionate about their particular cause, but there is a vast difference between being cause-passionate and being gospel-passionate. There is little difference between the zeal that consumes basketball fans this time of year and that which is created by a particular cultural "cause." But the gospel is different. It speaks of attributes of God's character that the natural man does not have the capacity to truly love. It strikes at the heart of man's arrogance, it removes, by its emphasis upon powerful, effective, sovereign grace, any ground of boasting in the man. But over time, if one is apathetic about the truth of the gospel, God may well bring judgment to bear in causing one to love a lie. And surely, anyone who has gazed in awe at the grandeur of the finished work of Christ in the light of the eternal decree of a holy and just God, who can then "trade that in" for the endless treadmill of Rome's sacramental system, the unfinished work of the Mass, and the specter of satispassio in purgatory, is one far beyond my comprehension and understanding. I truly pray for Dr. Beckwith's restoration, but more so, I pray God will once again cause His people to recognize the centrality of the truths of the gospel so that others may not fall into the same temptations to trade in the reality of peace with God for the empty facade of Roman piety.

posted at 20:34:06 on 05/03/07 by James R. White - Category: Roman Catholicism

From Lighthouse Trails-

by Roger Oakland
Understand the Times
From Faith Undone:

For those who are not aware of the Catholic Church's New Evangelization program, let me provide a brief overview. The Catholic Church plans to establish the kingdom of God on earth and win the world to the Catholic Jesus (i.e., the Eucharistic Christ). This will be accomplished when the world (including the separated brethren) comes under the rule and reign of Rome and this Eucharistic Jesus.

The Eucharistic Jesus is supposedly Christ's presence that a Catholic priest summons through the power of transubstantiation, the focal point of the Mass. Many Christians believe the Christian tradition of communion is the same as the Catholic tradition of the Eucharist. But this is not so. The Eucharist (i.e., transubstantiation) is a Catholic term for communion when the bread and the wine are said to be transformed into the very body and blood of Jesus Christ. The Catholic Catechism states:
In the most blessed sacrament of the Eucharist "the body and blood, together with the soul and divinity, of our Lord Jesus Christ and, therefore, the whole Christ is truly, really, and substantially contained."1
The host is then placed in what is called a monstrance and can then be worshiped as if worshiping Jesus Himself. The implications are tied directly to salvation itself. With the Eucharist, salvation becomes sacramental (participation in a ritual) as opposed to justification by faith in Christ alone, described in Galatians 2:16. While this mystical experience is a form of idolatry (as well as the very heart of Catholicism), there is a growing interest by evangelical Christians in this practice, particularly by the emerging church.

The Catholic Church leadership, concerned with apathy for the Eucharist within the Catholic ranks, is hoping to "rekindle the amazement"2 of the Eucharist through what is called their "New Evangelization program."3 With a two-fold purpose--to keep present Catholics and to bring evangelicals into the Catholic Church--church leadership has a plan to re-emphasize the Eucharist as the focus of the Catholic faith. By saying "rekindle the amazement," they mean bring out the mystical, supernatural element of the Eucharist.

All Catholics are expected to worship the host (Eucharistic Adoration of the transformed wafer), and church leadership says it is anathema (to be accursed) to reject this teaching....

While it is true that during the Reformation and Counter Reformation, many who refused to believe in transubstantiation were tortured and executed for their faith in the Gospel, time has a way of forgetting the facts of history.

In April of 2003, the pope wrote an encyclical promoting the "New Evangelization" program for the purpose of "rekindling amazement" for the Eucharist.4 Then in October of 2004, John Paul II initiated "The Year of the Eucharist" as part of his evangelistic plan to bring the world to the Eucharistic Christ. Following his death in April of 2005, Pope Benedict XVI picked up Pope John Paul's mission immediately. He called the "faithful to intensify" devotion to the Eucharistic Jesus, and said the Eucharist is the "heart of Christian life...."5

The New Evangelization program plans to revitalize the Catholic faith by reigniting strong interest in the Eucharistic Jesus. It is not just the pope who is enthusiastic about this--cardinals, bishops, and priests all over the world are joining in to help with the mission. Something very significant is happening. Eucharistic adoration is becoming the foundation for the new evangelization of the Catholic Church....

In speaking of the pope's view on the Eucharist, Protestant-turned Catholic Scott Hahn states:
The coming of Jesus Christ - what the Greek New Testament calls his "parousia"--is not simply some far-off event. It is his presence in the Eucharist. Fundamentalists reduce the meaning of "parousia" to Christ's coming at the end of time; but for the first century Greek speakers the word meant "presence." Catholic theology holds on to that original meaning.6
The presence of Christ in the Eucharist is the Second Coming Catholic style. Unfortunately, many evangelical Protestants are not even aware of this....

While Eucharistic adoration contradicts biblical Christianity, a growing number of popular evangelicals (especially those leaning toward emerging spiritualities) seem to find no offense in such a doctrine. And with the increased acceptance of mysticism and an attraction to imagery within evangelical circles, it only makes sense that many evangelical Christians find nothing wrong with the Eucharist and Eucharistic adoration. Such acceptance, however, is neutralizing former evangelical resistance to all things Catholic....

In Doug Pagitt's 2003 book Church Re-imagined, he describes his initial attraction to rituals associated with the Eucharist:
The first day of Lent this year brought the first Ash Wednesday gathering in our church's history and in mine.... Until this point, Ash Wednesday had not been part of my Christian faith experience. Not only had I never applied ashes to anyone's forehead, but I had also never had them applied to mine. After this experience I wondered how I could have celebrated 19 Easters as a Christian without this tremendous experience.7
Scot McKnight, another emerging church influencer, is professor of religious studies at North Park University and on the Coordinating Group for Emergent Village.... McKnight is the author of The Real Mary and The Jesus Creed. In referring to an Anglican service, McKnight speaks of the Eucharistic focus. He states:
[T]he point of an Anglican gathering on a Sunday morning is not to hear a sermon but to worship the Lord through the celebration of the Eucharist... First some scripture readings and then the sermon and then some announcements and then the Eucharist liturgy--with everyone coming forward to kneel and participate - publicly--in the body and blood.8
McKnight says that "the Eucharist profoundly enables the grace of God to be received with all its glories and blessings."9 No doubt, McKnight will have an impact on those in the emerging church movement, and his views on the Eucharist will rub off. He is a popular speaker at many events including Willow Creek's Small Group Conference and the National Pastors Convention. Both of these events reach the postmodern generation. (See Faith Undone for other examples of evangelical leaders showing tolerance toward the Catholic Eucharist, one of which is Rick Warren.)

The late Robert Webber was very influential in closing the gap between Eucharistic adoration and the evangelical church. A document he authored called "A Call to an Ancient Evangelical Future" states: "We call for a renewed consideration of how God ministers to us in ... Eucharist."10 Two well-known evangelical publishers, Baker Books and InterVarsity Press (both of which now publish emerging church authors) sponsored the document as did Christianity Today. The AEF, which the document is called, is endorsed by various emerging church leaders such as Brian McLaren who calls it "a preaching resource" that "emphasize[s] the importance ... of Advent or Lent."11
Participants of the AEF include numerous Christian seminaries like Bethel Seminary in Minnesota, Dallas Theological Seminary, and pastors from many different denominations including Nazarene, Wesleyan, Mennonite, Reformed, and Baptist. ...

To those who traditionally haven't had much ritual in their lives (i.e., Protestants), the ambience of the Mass would have great appeal because of its religious novelty--thus the interest in the Eucharist by those who promote contemplative spirituality. And for many Catholics, the Mass (where the Eucharist is presented), in, and of itself, is not a mystical experience. However if the contemplative dimension is added, one actually can enter the mystical realm. On the surface, this phenomenon seems complex, but once we begin to understand mysticism, it all makes sense. Within the contemplative prayer realm, the meditator is actually getting in touch with a spiritual power or force. Combining the tradition of the Eucharist, which appeals to many raised in the Catholic Church, with the relatively recent explosion of contemplative practice, the Catholic Church sees this as a way to recover its robust state of previous decades....

Right now, some may be asking, is the physical presence of Jesus held inside the elements of the Eucharist? Or as some evangelicals and emergents have suggested, is there a special presence and power in the Eucharist? The answer to both is a resounding no! Jesus Christ indwells the heart of every person who is born again and who belongs to Him by faith through grace. He promises never to leave or forsake us, meaning that His presence is in our lives at all times. We are not required to partake in a ritual to experience His presence, nor is He confined in benign, lifeless wafers and wine (or juice). As Jesus said:

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit [spiritual as opposed to physical], and they are life. (John 6:63, emphasis added)
Jesus said this in response to his disciples' confusion over His statement "my flesh is meat indeed" (vs. 55). Paul adds further clarity in writing to the Romans that all we need to do is call upon the true Jesus, and He is there:
But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Romans 10:8-13)
At this point, we see the great chasm that separates Catholicism from the light of the Gospel--a light the reformers saw, for which many of them gave their lives. They recognized that participation in the sacraments is not what saves people.

[T]he Catholic's New Evangelization is no small issue. Darkness has crept over the Christian church the same way an avalanche sweeps down a mountain. Every day new unsuspecting victims are being swept away and buried. And the role the emerging church plays in bringing this about is something that should alarm every discerning Christian. (From Faith Undone, excerpts from chapter 8)

To read more about the emerging church, read Faith Undone - to be released August 1st, 2007.

1. Catechism of the Catholic Church, para. 1374, page 383.6
2. H. J. Schroeder, The Canons and Decrees of The Council of Trent (Rockford, IL: Tan Books and Publishers, 1978), page 79, Canon 1.
3. Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, "The New Evangelization" (
4. Zenit: The World Seen From Rome, "Why the Pope Would Write an Encyclical on the Eucharist: To Rekindle Amazement," cited April 17, 2003,
5. "Pope Benedict calls on faithful to intensify devotion to Eucharistic Jesus,"
6. Interview with Scott Hahn, "Eucharist in the Pontificate of Benedict XVI" (Pontifications, June 12, 2005, http://
7. Doug Pagitt, Church Re-Imagined, op. cit., p. 103.
8. Scot McKnight, "An Anglican Service" (Jesus Creed blog,
9. Scot McKnight, Turning to Jesus, (Louisville, KY: Westminister John Knox Press, 2002 edition), p. 7.
10. Robert Webber, "A Call to an Ancient Evangelical Future" (Online at:
11. Brian McLaren, "The AEF Document as a Preaching Resource" (From the AEF Call website:

For more information on the "New Evangelization" program of the Catholic church and the move toward the mystical:

"Catholic, other religious leaders, laity try silence when peace talks fail"
from Understand the Times (July 23rd, 2007).

Pope's message for World Youth Day 2008: Seeking a new "Pentecost"


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