The No Goofy Zone Discernment Ministry

The No Goofy Zone is a discernment ministry for saved born again Christians and all who are seeking the truth.We expose non-biblical trends in the church. We are making material available to advance understanding of issue's which endanger Christianity. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit.

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Location: Piqua, Ohio, United States

Former drummer for Gary Lewis and The Playboys and The Coasters. Tim has also played with Paul Baloche, Lincoln Brewster, Darlene Zscech and Hillsongs, Jeff Fenholt, SteveCamp among others. Tim founded The Simply Agape Project in 2001 to get free Christian music to the troops. Recordings have been made with Tim, and friends Alex Acuna, Abe Laboriel SR, Justo Almario,Steve Camp , Jared Ming and some wonderful Independant Christian artists.The Somebody Brave CD also features words of encouragment to the soldiers from Pastors, Moms, Dads, and Lt Col Brian Birdwell a Pentegon 9/11 survivor Tim is married to Donna Wirth and has four children Alan 25,Steven 23, Brittany 22, Bethany 21. Tim has played in numerous churchs as well as shows on TBN. Tim has also performed on JCTV on the show Generation Worship featuring worship leader Jared Ming. Tim has a book published worldwide titled "Pass The Plate And Let Us Prey" (My Search For Black and White Christianity in a Gray Nation)

Wednesday, March 12, 2008

The Great American Tragedy Part 3 -Seeker Sensitive-Lowering The Bar

1John 2:15-17
"15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. 17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever."

And keep in mind once the world gets bored with your churches latest gimmick they will go to another church where they can be tickled. And you are stuck in a consistant state of compromise to lure them back in.

This will be my final article on this topic for now because it needs to be the Holy Spirit that convinces people of the truth not me.
Seeker sensitive lowers the bar in churches instead of raising standards.
And we need to understand this has been a conditioning process to get us to believe a lie.
Ten years ago we probably would not have been talking about beachballs being thrown in church or drinking beer in church.
Look at TV programming.
A lot has changed since Andy of Mayberry and Dick Van Dyke was proper TV programming.
Slowly we have been dulled and conditioned to accept the unacceptable.

Lets look at seeker sensitive and how it lowers the bar.
In the church I formerly attended the pastor sent a email out (which I have posted here) distancing himself and his church from my article.
Here are two comments I want to address.

" And while showing up for practice is a plus, I recognize that not everyone can make the practice times during the week. We still want all of you who participate on Sundays to continue."End of comment

See how we have lowered the bar just to make sure we have a band in church.
Even when I played in the world if you were in a band you practiced period!
That's the only when you can become good.
As Gods people shouldn't we have a higher stand than the world does most of all since we are supposed to be playing music for God (not us).
Isn't that worth a couple hours of your time a week.
It disgusts me that I even have to make this kind of statement.
But that what seeker sensitive does.
It lowers the high standard to a Cain sacrifice.
Even the most experienced players still practice with their bands and on their own.
When I had the opportunity to work with Alex Acuna a world reknowed percussionist/drummer and A good Christian man I got to take a look at what Alex practiced on at his home when not on tour.
I went in the studio to check out what music he had on the stand to practice.
I anticipated it would be a set of complex rhythms that would stretch Alex further since he can play just about anything.
Instead I came across some very basic rudiments and patterns.
I asked Alex why he went over these simple patterns.
His comments was that he always wanted to stay rooted in the foundation ,the basics to keep his playing up to pare.
That in itself spoke words.

I want to address another comment left by the pastor in his email.
"We strive to be a seeker friendly church as well as a church where people can develop strong roots in the Lord. For example, one of our key band members was not a Christian when he first started playing. Music drew him not only to God but also to ministry." end of comment

Now I want to say no way do I want to offend who pastor is speaking about here.
I believe he is now a good Christian man and I also consider him a friend.
But allowing someone on the platform before they are saved is just not biblical.
I find it hard to believe that the person spoken about would have left the church if not included on the platform.
This was a grievous error on the part of the leadership of this church.
No matter how you want to spin it, or make excuses for it being on the platform is not only a ministry position but a leadership position.
Unbelievers cannot be part of this.

1 Timothy 3: 6 cautions even letting a new Christian in a leadership position.
" We strive to be a seeker friendly church as well as a church where people can develop strong roots in the Lord. For example, one of our key band members was not a Christian when he first started playing. Music drew him not only to God but also to ministry."

Ministry teams are often caught in this trap because of a lack of good and dedicated players within the church. But again what does the Bible teach.
All that matters here folks is what scripture teaches.
It doesn't change because our society changes.
Jesus changes society not the other way around.

Again though not to beat a dead horse but many churches have very low standards on rehearsal which usually results in poorly played music, which results in a distraction from worship because of poorly played or sung notes.

Churches that are still just playing hymns are often categorized as legalistic or just plain not hip.
But why is music played in church?
To please us or God?
I'm not against different styles but that shouldn't matter because the focus is on God not our own tickling ears.

Seeker sensitive also lowers the bar on preaching and our standards for leadership.
We first allowed divorced pastors, then female pastor now as in the case of Paula White divorced, female pastors.
Can no one see where the slippery slope is headed?
1 Timothy 3:2-5

" A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; 3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money,[b] but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; 4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence 5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?);

Scripture sets a standard we lower the standard and we will reap the fruit of this lower unbiblical standard.

Does anyone out there feel insulted that sermons have resorted to using gimmicks and being so dumbed down it results in milk drinking (maybe some cereal) Christians.
I understand Paul preached to different Christians (he wasn't speaking about unsaved people here though) and used different methods.

1 Cor 2:1-8
"1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony[a] of God. 2 For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. 3 I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling. 4 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human[b] wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
Spiritual Wisdom

6 However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, 8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory."
And I also realize that there are unbelievers in our services at times.
1 Cor 14:23
"23 Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind?"

But we are not to dumb down and use gimmicks for the sake of unbelievers.
We gather together so Christians can grow to maturity do fall into the peril of not progressing.
Heb 6:1-2
"The Peril of Not Progressing
1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this we will[a] do if God permits."

Here is more of the great falling away the Bible speaks of.
1 John 1:18-20
"18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the[c] Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.[d] 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth."

Many people have bought in and are living in a lie.
Keep in mind our assemblies are to be geared toward believers not unbelievers.
That's what the Bible teaches.
Look at the way seeker sensitive churches are structured they even have executive pastors who in my experience were nothing more then bean counter's.
This is not a biblical office but a Bill Hybels/Rick Warren creation.
We are heading away from biblical Christianity and headed toward even greater apostasy.
I have often heard many say.
"O yea we do some goofy gimmicks but we will never go that far."
Again look at the examples I have presented and tell me if you ever would have thought about there being beer churches, homosexual churches or even something as goofy as getting carnal in a service and throwing around beachballs like your at a rock concert.

All I can say is I pray the Holy Spirit leads you into all truth.
Tim Wirth


Anonymous Anonymous said...


I am almost 60 yrs. old. I always loved music and I certainly remember you and at the time loved rock music.

God has saved me and it is thrilling to know He has done the same in your life!

Amazing Grace!!!!

9:56 AM  
Blogger Kurt said...

This is from Charles Spurgeon which sums it up quite well, "Charles Spurgeon (the Prince of Preachers) said, "I do not believe that any man can preach the Gospel who does not preach the Law ... Lower the Law and you dim the light by which man perceives his guilt; this is a very serious loss to the sinner rather than a gain; for it lessens the likelihood of his conviction and conversion. I say you have deprived the Gospel of its ablest auxiliary [most powerful weapon] when you have set aside the Law. You have taken away from it the schoolmaster that is to bring men to Christ ...They will never accept grace till they tremble before a just and holy Law. Therefore the Law serves a most necessary purpose, and it must not be removed from its place."

6:18 PM  

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