The No Goofy Zone Discernment Ministry

The No Goofy Zone is a discernment ministry for saved born again Christians and all who are seeking the truth.We expose non-biblical trends in the church. We are making material available to advance understanding of issue's which endanger Christianity. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit.

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Location: Piqua, Ohio, United States

Former drummer for Gary Lewis and The Playboys and The Coasters. Tim has also played with Paul Baloche, Lincoln Brewster, Darlene Zscech and Hillsongs, Jeff Fenholt, SteveCamp among others. Tim founded The Simply Agape Project in 2001 to get free Christian music to the troops. Recordings have been made with Tim, and friends Alex Acuna, Abe Laboriel SR, Justo Almario,Steve Camp , Jared Ming and some wonderful Independant Christian artists.The Somebody Brave CD also features words of encouragment to the soldiers from Pastors, Moms, Dads, and Lt Col Brian Birdwell a Pentegon 9/11 survivor Tim is married to Donna Wirth and has four children Alan 25,Steven 23, Brittany 22, Bethany 21. Tim has played in numerous churchs as well as shows on TBN. Tim has also performed on JCTV on the show Generation Worship featuring worship leader Jared Ming. Tim has a book published worldwide titled "Pass The Plate And Let Us Prey" (My Search For Black and White Christianity in a Gray Nation)

Tuesday, March 11, 2008

The Great American Tragedy Part One Rick Warren and Seeker Sensitive

Because of what I have experienced in my life lately which has caused me to search the scriptures I am writing a short series of articles titled "The Great American Tragedy". This is because I believe because of what scripture teaches the biggest tragedy in the current shape of the American church.
First I want to deal with what I think is the root of the problem seeker sensitive.
Now there have been others who have taught and promoted this such as Robert Schuller, Bill Hybels and others.
But Rick really was the one that networked it into such large numbers and weak end the American Church and the church worldwide who adapt Ricks methods and drink the purpose driven cool aid.
Lets examine where Rick started his methods and how they stack up to the scripture.
I will be quoting directly from Richard Abanes booklet on Warren titled "Rick Warren and the Purpose that Drives Him.
I will also be pointing out where the author uses spin to what I believe is to deceive the reader into thinking something is not what it seems.
Here is the quote from page 47 from a subtitle A Church for the Unchurched.
's plan was to attract sheep who had wandered away from the Shepherd, not those who were already in a church.This was the impetus behind one of his most controversial moves: a survey of non-Christians He thought, If we're going to go reach people who've never been to church, I'd better go out and talk to them and find out what kind of church would interest them-would get their attention.
So between January and Easter (the date he had slated for his first public service), he spent 12 weeks going door to door, canvassing about 2000 homes. If he met a Christian, he thanked them, encouraged them, and went on his way. But when he met someone who did not regularly attend a church, he asked them four questions:
*"Why do you think ,most people don't attend church?"
*"If you were looking for a church, what things would you look for?"
*"What advice would you give me as the pastor of a new church that really wants to be of benefit to the community?"
*"How could I, as a pastor, help you?"
End of quote-

Sounds relatively harmless and based on some good intentions doesn't it?
First I want to examine the spin (deception) Abanes puts in his writing to in my opinion deceive you.

1. Warrens plan- I agree this was Rick Warrens plan no where doesn't it state he sought the Lord in prayer or consulted scripture to go out and create what Rick was intent on creating.
2.The plan was to attract sheep who had wandered away from the Shepherd-
Lets put on the brakes right there.
We are talking about non Christians here, unbelievers.
Unbelievers are not part of the flock and have not wandered away from anything.

John 9:4 "4 And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice.
Then John 9:14-16 states "14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd."
The sheep Jesus refers to that are not of this fold are Gentiles (non Jews)because the Good News was to be shared with the Jews first then the Gentiles.

3. Rick Warren never asked the advice of Christians or scripture but focused on unbelievers who were are their way to hell about what they want in a church.
Notice how Abanes blurs the lines creating grey when he states "But when he asked someone who did not regularly attend a church"
Dont let the lines blur here folks Rick Warren was asking a unsaved person advice on how to set up a Christian church.
Asking a unbeliever "If you were looking for a church, what things would you look for?" is beyond stupid and borders on evil.

So thats the roots of seeker sensitive and now we need to ask ourselves what does the Bible state our assemblies should be about since we know that the Body of Christ is made up of saved believers not stones and morter.

1 Cor 1:12"12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into[c] one Spirit. 14 For in fact the body is not one member but many."

I will address this in part 2 of this article


Blogger wswelstar said...

Why do you think that questions were so stupid? Maybe Rick really did want to serve people and he didn't know what was the best way. Obviously the gospel is a necessity for the human soul that is lost in the darkness of sin and unbelief, but the question seems harmless. Often people just want to be heard, even if they are not "listened to". What is the one thing about a church or worship service that cannot change?

10:05 PM  

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