What they say about the church
From my friends and brother and sister in the Lord Dave and Deb Dombrowski
"For me, the beginning of sharing my faith with people began by throwing out Christianity and embracing Christian spirituality, a nonpolitical mysterious system that can be experienced but not explained." Don Miller, Blue Like Jazz, p. 115
"[P]eople who are always saying negative things about the world, are anti-gay, take the whole Bible literally, are card-carrying Republicans, are pro-Israel, read end-times novels, and endorse snake handling and fire-and-brimstone preaching." from Dan Kimball's book, They Like Jesus but not the Church
"My goal is to destroy Christianity as a world religion and be a recatalyst for the movement of Jesus Christ," and "Some people are upset with me because it sounds like I'm anti-Christian. I think they might be right." Erwin McManus
"Today there really aren't that many Fundamentalists left; I don't know if you know that or not, but they are such a minority; there aren't that many Fundamentalists left in America.... Now the word "fundamentalist" actually comes from a document in the 1920s called the Five Fundamentals of the Faith. And it is a very legalistic, narrow view of Christianity. Rick Warren, Pew Forum on Religion, 2005
"Their [end-time believing Christians] doctrines are a major factor in determining a far-ranging set of consequences that include American policies regarding militarism, the emergence of evangelical Zionism, attitudes toward Palestinians and the role of American geopolitics." (p. 207) He later says their "impact on geopolitics can only lead to war." (p. 215). Tony Campolo, from Speaking my Mind
"If your church has been plateaued for six months, it might take six months to get it going again. If it's been plateaued a year, it might take a year. If it's been plateaued for 20 years, you've got to set in for the duration! I'm saying some people are going to have to die or leave." "Moses had to wander around the desert for 40 years while God killed off a million people before he let them go into the Promised Land. That may be brutally blunt, but it's true. There may be people in your church who love God sincerely, but who will never, ever change." Rick Warren, 2006
A sea change of transitions and transformations is birthing a whole new world and a whole new set of ways of making our way in the world.... It is time for a Postmodern Reformation ... Reinvent yourself for the 21st century or die. Some would rather die than change (Leonard Sweet, Soul Tsunami, pp. 17, 75).
If you have read Nehemiah recently, you will remember that Sanballat is Nehemiah's greatest critic and number one enemy. Let me put it plainer than that. Sanballat is a leader from hell. We all have some Sanballats in our churches. This is the guy who opposes whatever you propose.... You cannot call this guy a leader from hell to his face - but you could call him Sanballat (Dan Southerland, Transitioning (used to train Purpose Driven Churches, p. 115).
"The Church's fixation on the death of Jesus as the universal saving act must end, and the place of the cross must be reimagined in Christian faith. Why? Because of the cult of suffering and the vindictive God behind it." Alan Jones, Reimagining Christianity, p. 132
"The other thread of just criticism addresses the suggestion implicit in the cross that Jesus' sacrifice was to appease an angry god. Penal substitution [the Cross] was the name of this vile doctrine." Jones, p. 168
What do the Scriptures say about the Body of Christ:
"Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you. We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren." I John 3:13,14
"Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not." I John 3:1
"For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body." Philippians 3:20
"[Y]ou are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy." 1 Peter 2:9-10
"If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, 'A servant is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also. But all these things they will do to you for My name's sake, because they do not know Him who sent Me. " John 15:18-21
** Please read Warren Smith's free online book, Reinventing Jesus Christ, to understand the implications of the quotes and the Scriptures above.**
"For me, the beginning of sharing my faith with people began by throwing out Christianity and embracing Christian spirituality, a nonpolitical mysterious system that can be experienced but not explained." Don Miller, Blue Like Jazz, p. 115
"[P]eople who are always saying negative things about the world, are anti-gay, take the whole Bible literally, are card-carrying Republicans, are pro-Israel, read end-times novels, and endorse snake handling and fire-and-brimstone preaching." from Dan Kimball's book, They Like Jesus but not the Church
"My goal is to destroy Christianity as a world religion and be a recatalyst for the movement of Jesus Christ," and "Some people are upset with me because it sounds like I'm anti-Christian. I think they might be right." Erwin McManus
"Today there really aren't that many Fundamentalists left; I don't know if you know that or not, but they are such a minority; there aren't that many Fundamentalists left in America.... Now the word "fundamentalist" actually comes from a document in the 1920s called the Five Fundamentals of the Faith. And it is a very legalistic, narrow view of Christianity. Rick Warren, Pew Forum on Religion, 2005
"Their [end-time believing Christians] doctrines are a major factor in determining a far-ranging set of consequences that include American policies regarding militarism, the emergence of evangelical Zionism, attitudes toward Palestinians and the role of American geopolitics." (p. 207) He later says their "impact on geopolitics can only lead to war." (p. 215). Tony Campolo, from Speaking my Mind
"If your church has been plateaued for six months, it might take six months to get it going again. If it's been plateaued a year, it might take a year. If it's been plateaued for 20 years, you've got to set in for the duration! I'm saying some people are going to have to die or leave." "Moses had to wander around the desert for 40 years while God killed off a million people before he let them go into the Promised Land. That may be brutally blunt, but it's true. There may be people in your church who love God sincerely, but who will never, ever change." Rick Warren, 2006
A sea change of transitions and transformations is birthing a whole new world and a whole new set of ways of making our way in the world.... It is time for a Postmodern Reformation ... Reinvent yourself for the 21st century or die. Some would rather die than change (Leonard Sweet, Soul Tsunami, pp. 17, 75).
If you have read Nehemiah recently, you will remember that Sanballat is Nehemiah's greatest critic and number one enemy. Let me put it plainer than that. Sanballat is a leader from hell. We all have some Sanballats in our churches. This is the guy who opposes whatever you propose.... You cannot call this guy a leader from hell to his face - but you could call him Sanballat (Dan Southerland, Transitioning (used to train Purpose Driven Churches, p. 115).
"The Church's fixation on the death of Jesus as the universal saving act must end, and the place of the cross must be reimagined in Christian faith. Why? Because of the cult of suffering and the vindictive God behind it." Alan Jones, Reimagining Christianity, p. 132
"The other thread of just criticism addresses the suggestion implicit in the cross that Jesus' sacrifice was to appease an angry god. Penal substitution [the Cross] was the name of this vile doctrine." Jones, p. 168
What do the Scriptures say about the Body of Christ:
"Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you. We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren." I John 3:13,14
"Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not." I John 3:1
"For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body." Philippians 3:20
"[Y]ou are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy." 1 Peter 2:9-10
"If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, 'A servant is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also. But all these things they will do to you for My name's sake, because they do not know Him who sent Me. " John 15:18-21
** Please read Warren Smith's free online book, Reinventing Jesus Christ, to understand the implications of the quotes and the Scriptures above.**
posted by Tim Wirth | 7:33 PM
2 Comments:
Yesterday I was at Barnes & Noble. They had a table set up with the title: The New Christians. On the table were books by Donald Miller, Tony Jones, Brian McLaren, etc. Very disturbing.
I expect you will see others join this this group as well.
Rick Waren already endorses guys like Dan Kimball and then there is authors like Richard Abanes who's views seem to be tossed to and fro. As well as blatenet new agers like Ken Blanchard and Leonard Sweet both who Rick Warren aligns himself with.
Thanks for your comment and observation.
Peace
Tim
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