The No Goofy Zone Discernment Ministry

The No Goofy Zone is a discernment ministry for saved born again Christians and all who are seeking the truth.We expose non-biblical trends in the church. We are making material available to advance understanding of issue's which endanger Christianity. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit.

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Location: Piqua, Ohio, United States

Former drummer for Gary Lewis and The Playboys and The Coasters. Tim has also played with Paul Baloche, Lincoln Brewster, Darlene Zscech and Hillsongs, Jeff Fenholt, SteveCamp among others. Tim founded The Simply Agape Project in 2001 to get free Christian music to the troops. Recordings have been made with Tim, and friends Alex Acuna, Abe Laboriel SR, Justo Almario,Steve Camp , Jared Ming and some wonderful Independant Christian artists.The Somebody Brave CD also features words of encouragment to the soldiers from Pastors, Moms, Dads, and Lt Col Brian Birdwell a Pentegon 9/11 survivor Tim is married to Donna Wirth and has four children Alan 25,Steven 23, Brittany 22, Bethany 21. Tim has played in numerous churchs as well as shows on TBN. Tim has also performed on JCTV on the show Generation Worship featuring worship leader Jared Ming. Tim has a book published worldwide titled "Pass The Plate And Let Us Prey" (My Search For Black and White Christianity in a Gray Nation)

Saturday, September 17, 2005

The Purpose Driven Trojan Horse-Rick Warrens low view of music

Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Rick Warren before he announced his Global peace plan-(from ASSIST News article
But before he made the announcement, he decided to have some fun and surprised the audience when he said, Ive always wanted to do in this stadium. He then sang an impersonation of Jimi Hendrixs hit song, Purple Haze. As the audience erupted into laughter, the church band joined in playing back up to it.

Excert from Richard Abanes(unofficial spokesman for Rick Warren) "Rick Warren and the Purpose that Drives Him page 38
"In fact , he wanted to be a guitar playing rock starreferringring to Rick Warren)

Sorry about getting this article up later than expected. I had a lot of information I had to go through. Plus most importantly I wanted to spend time in prayer and reflection with the Lord Jesus before I posted the article. So here goes.

Some folks who have reviewed Rick Warrens writings, teachings and books often refer to Rick as having the best intentions or well meaning. I don't want to assume this posteior. I don't know Rick and some of the others who have written comments like these don't know Rickhaven'te'nt met him as well. I don't want to assume anything about Rick just because he is famous and claims to be a Christian. I want to check the fruit of the ministry (not popularity-there idifferenceance). And the only way to examine fruit is to hold it up to the light of scripture.
It's been well documented that Rick bends scripture to say what he wants it to say as well as presenting a partial gospel (if any) in his writings and videos).
I would add that a partial gospel is really no gospel at all.

What does Warren think about music. I can only come to a reasonable conclusion by examing Ricks books as well as his actions. We also need to look at what Rick exposes other pastor to on such things as his Ministry toolbox articles as well as what Rick serves up at Saddleback.
Rick is a package deal The Purpose Driven church, Purpose Driven Life, and Transistioning by Dan Southerland was all a well thought out targetedtmarketingting plan.

I found it interesting in Abanes book about Warren "Rick Warren and the Purpose that Drives Him" that no where does it mention that Rick Warren was saved. We know that Rick grew up in church and had a preacher father. But no where in this book does it state when Rick Warren was saved.
Instead it offers this on page 38
" But everything started going in a different direction around 1970, just before his junior year in high school. Rick was working as a lifeguard at a Christian summer camp, where he saw other kids living how he wanted to live-in service to God. He prayed, God, if you're really alive, I want to know You."- end quote No where else in the book does it state that Rick Warren accepted Jesus as His Lord and Savior. I thought that was a important detail to leave out in a book that describes the purpose that drives Rick Warren.
Please come to what ever conclusion you want on this though.
Thats just something to think about as we examine Rick Warren and the fruit of his ministry.

When I had read that Rick Warren had played a part of Purple Haze in front of a huge audiencewasn'tasnt just the song selection (evil as that was) alone but what Rick was quoted as saying. "I've always wanted to do this in a stadium."
Then I read in Richies book about Rick wanting to be a guitar playing rock star. So I decided to pursue what Rick really thinks about music and its use in the church.
I ordered from our local library The Purpose Driven Church, and also read Chuck McAllisters article on Transistioning on Ricks toolbox. I have also debated Richard Abanes on the topic of worship. Abanes as well does not have a clue about music and its use in church.
here is a good article on music in the testamentment church.

Now of course not all of us will agree on musical styles. Some may call something rock merely because it had a 2/4 beat to it. Which in itself is not true because many different styles have similar beats. And all styles are not neutral. Some styles were inspired by the devil and his demons and will loose a spirit of anarchy and aggression.
Rick states in PDC "There is no such thing as "Christian music." There are only Christian lyrics."
Not true at all. If you buy into what Slick Rick states that would mean you could take a Marilyn Manson song put Christian lyrics to it and then play it in church.
Sadly this is what many current Christian bands do. Instead of looking to the Holy Spirit for inspiration they take the quick route and find a good hook (the catchy part of a song that you remember) and put it to Christian lyrics.
This not only exposes your congregation to possible a demonic spirit but also is just plain laziness.
Ricks own worship leader Rick Muchow does this in his song "Wonders of God."
The song has a beautiful intro and then they break down into the hook which sounds just like "You can call me Al" by Paul Simon.
I have to think that the Holy Spirit has something so much better than borrowing hooks from secular songs.
And then in Purpose Driven Church(pages 282, 283) to back up Ricks low view of music he parrots the old urban legends about Martin Luther, Charles Wesley and John Calvin. Again Rick making excuses (without sighting any resources from the myths he circulates) so Rick can do what Rick and his audience requests.
Lets examine these urban legends one by one.
Martin Luther- How many times have you heard or read that Martin Luther borrowed the tune from a popular drinking song and used it for his best-known hymn, "A Mighty Fortress Is Our God"? This myth hase been debunked numerous times in books on church music, yet we still hear it repeated by speakers who should have done better research.
Probably the best explanation for how this myth arose is found in David Music's brief note. "Getting Luther Out of the Barroom. As Music explains, early Luthern tunes that included two identical musical phrases followed by a third contrasting phrase were examples of a musical structure known as bar form.
We do not know who, upon reading that Luther wrote hymns in bar form began to spread the notion that Luther collected his hymn tunes when he visited the local bar. Germans in those days didnt even refer to drinking establishments as bars.
Luther him self said it best.
"And you, My young friend, let this noble and cheerful creation of God (music)commended to you. By it you may escape shameful desires and bad company. At the same time you may by this creation accustom yourself to recognize and praise the Creator. Take special care to shun perverted minds who prostitute this lovely gift of nature and of art with their erotic rantingings; and be quite assured that none but the devil goads them on to defy their nature, which would and should praise God its Maker with this gift, so that these.. purloin the gift of God and use it to worship the foe of God, the enemy of nature and of this lovely art.
Martin Luther did not think music was neutral.
Martin Luthers thoughts on using music for the youth.
"And these songs were arranged in four parts for no other reason than I wanted to attract the youth (who should and must be trained in music and other fine arts) away from love songs and carnal pieces and to give them something wholesome to learn instead, so that they can enter with pleasure into that which in good, as is befitting to youth.
In Martin Luthers songs he enjoyed arranging music for his young people to teach them the fundamentals of music theory, as well as an overall appreciation of good music.
Compare that to what Rick serves up at his own church Saddleback.
Here is a comment by a friend of mine who visited Saddleback.

"I found it comically interesting that at a junior high concert in one of Saddlebacks tents a group of 13 year olds approached the stage and asked the band if they could turn it down."

Now unto John Wesley-did he use secular music?
"The latest "tavern song" controversy was fueled during the summer by an article on the Methodist Web site by Dean McIntyre, director of United Methodist worship resources, at the denomination's headquarters in Nashville. It was titled, "Did the Wesleys Really Use Drinking Song Tunes for their Hymns?" and, just like that, the argument was renewed.
McIntyre said no, explaining that the story began long ago with a misunderstanding of the term "bar tune" - or "bar form," as it also is called. This is a poetic pattern from the Middle Ages using three or more stanzas, and somehow, along the way, things got mixed up.
Many popular hymns use the "bar tune" pattern, among them the Lutheran anthem "A Mighty Fortress is Our God."
How about John Calvin? From a article by Robert F Hull
" What is true of Luthers music is generally the case for John Calvin, as well, despite the claim that John Calvin "hired two secular songwrites to popularize his theology through popular music. I have not been able to discover who these songwriters were, nor, indeed anything at all to support this characterization, even after reading carefully the lengthy article on John Calvin in The New Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians."

So much for Ricks use of Urban legends to accommodate his views or excuses on music.
Rick makes some pretty amazing ungodly statements in Purpose Driven Church.

Page 280-281 " The style of music you choose to use in your services will be one of the most critical (and controversial) decisions you make in the life of your church. It may also be the most influential factor in determining who your church reaches for Christ and whether or not your church grows. You must match your music to the kind of people God wants your church to reach.
The music you use "positions" your church in your community. It defines who you are. Once you have decided on the style of music you're going to use in worship, you have set the direction of your church in far more ways than you realize. It will determine the kind of people you attract, the kind of people you keep, and the kind of people you lose.
If you were to tell me the kind of music you are currently using in your services I could describe the kind of people you are reaching without even visiting your church. I could also tell you the kind of people your church will never be able to reach." end of quote

When I first read these quotes on a friends blog in a article titled "Seeker Gymnastics"I got so angry I had to go take a walk.
Then I had to see these quotes for myself and not wanting to spend any money on Slick Rick I ordered the book Purpose Driven Church from my local library. I read the book and then I had to go take several long walks.
I still get hot when I read this.
This is coming from a guy(Rick Warren) who wanted to be a "guitar playing rock star"
. And then saw his dream come true at a event he promoted.
Rick Warrens statements here in Purpose Driven Church are apostate coming from a reprobate mind.
They deny the very effectiveness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the work and conviction of the Holy Spirit.
So if you don't play the right kind of music you will not reach people for Christ, or the music will determine who you reach for Christ?
What utter heresy.
None of Ricks statements listed above has any grounding in any scripture whatsoever. Its just not there.
Will your church grow if you do it Ricks way?
Good chance that you will soon have a lot of people in your building rocking out.
Who will grow into a bunch of carnal Christians (if indeed they get saved at all) who will need you to continue to feed their flesh in new and even more carnal ways as time progresses.
Thats a lot to do with why American Christianity is so weak.
From a church transistion article on Ricks toolbox
"You must practice extreme patience to help your church make the necessary change to a worship style that will directly impact those who do not know God. " end quote

There is no worship style of any kind that will directly impact those who do not know God."
People who do not know God cannot worship Him. Unbelievers should feel uncomfortable when a congreagation is worshipping God. And there is nothing wrong with that. It allows the Holy Spirit to work on hearts and convict people of their sin, and then show them their need for a Savior.
Thats is if you want to lead people to the Lord. Be nice and polite and loving-but hey let them feel uncomfortable.
If you listen to the advice Rick and his followers preach yea you'll get em rocking , and yes they will have emotional experiences because you get them up jumping. But isn't it more important to lead people to the Lord and let Him save them.
This cannot be duplicated by a emotionnal experience.
Im gonna go take a walk-
The next article will be-The Purpose Driven Trojan Horse-Slick Rick says "The request lines are now open.


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