The No Goofy Zone Discernment Ministry

The No Goofy Zone is a discernment ministry for saved born again Christians and all who are seeking the truth.We expose non-biblical trends in the church. We are making material available to advance understanding of issue's which endanger Christianity. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit.

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Former drummer for Gary Lewis and The Playboys and The Coasters. Tim has also played with Paul Baloche, Lincoln Brewster, Darlene Zscech and Hillsongs, Jeff Fenholt, SteveCamp among others. Tim founded The Simply Agape Project in 2001 to get free Christian music to the troops. Recordings have been made with Tim, and friends Alex Acuna, Abe Laboriel SR, Justo Almario,Steve Camp , Jared Ming and some wonderful Independant Christian artists.The Somebody Brave CD also features words of encouragment to the soldiers from Pastors, Moms, Dads, and Lt Col Brian Birdwell a Pentegon 9/11 survivor Tim is married to Donna Wirth and has four children Alan 25,Steven 23, Brittany 22, Bethany 21. Tim has played in numerous churchs as well as shows on TBN. Tim has also performed on JCTV on the show Generation Worship featuring worship leader Jared Ming. Tim has a book published worldwide titled "Pass The Plate And Let Us Prey" (My Search For Black and White Christianity in a Gray Nation)

Sunday, November 26, 2006

Rick Warren"Explains" Himself by Sandy Simpson

I received a email last night from a sister in the Lord.
It was Rick Warren making excuses for his recent behavior to his followers at Saddleback.
Here is a rebuttel to this email from my brother in the Lord and friend Sandy Simpson from Deception in the Church website.



Rick Warren "Explains" Himself by Sandy Simpson, 11/25/06
I got this email from a friend of our ministry. He spotted it on the web. Rick Warren's letter is in italics.
From: "Pastor Rick" Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 12:53:56 -0800 Subject: MESSAGE THIS WEEKEND!
Dear Saddleback Family, Happy Thanksgiving. This weekend I'll announce the new giving commitments that are joining the rest of us in "EXTENDING THE VISION; For the Next Generation" PLUS ... I'll be sharing a very personal message on "Living By Your Convictions.

"If by "living by your convictions" Warren is speaking of "doing what is right in (his) own eyes" (Judges 17:6) then he is a proper authority to speak on that subject. If by "living by your convictions" he means living in accordance to the Word of God, then I can't see how he could POSSIBLY be a good person to preach on this subject. Rick Warren and his whole program of Dominionism have NOTHING to do with our mandate as Christians to be light and salt in the world. Who told Rick to brag in his P.E.A.C.E. plan that we can "overcome" five of the biggest problems of the world? “Our goal will be to enlist 'one billion foot soldiers for the Kingdom of God', who will permanently change the face of international missions to take on these five “global giants” for which the church can become the ultimate distribution and change agent to overcome Spiritual Emptiness, Self-serving Leadership, Poverty, Disease and ignorance (or illiteracy)." (http://www.assistnews.net/Stories/s05040087.htm) The only time the problems of poverty, disease and ignorance will be "overcome" is in the Millenial Kingdom by Jesus Christ Himself. For now we will always have the poor with us (Mark 14:7), disease has and will continue throughout the history of the world and through the Tribulation, and ignorance is a universal problem, especially among those who twist Scripture like Rick Warren. (2 Pet. 3:16). Self-serving leadership? Need I say more?


When Kay and I announced the launching of the P.E.A.C.E. plan a few years ago, we both knew we could expect severe opposition coming from different angles. The P.E.A.C.E. plan empowers churches to do the 5 things Jesus did, and Jesus warned us, "People will do to youexactly what they did to me. They will do it because you belong to me, and they don't know the one who sent me." John 15:21 (CEV) Millions of Christians throughout history and around the world right now know that persecution is real.

I see. So Rick Warren is now being "persecuted" for the cause of Christ. But then wouldn't you have be be obedient to Christ to be persecuted for Him? This is exactly the same false argument cultists, Third Wavers, Word of Faith heretics and many others use when true biblical Christians disagree with them. True followers of Christ are told to mark and avoid false teachers (Rom. 16:17) who do not teach according to what the Bible says. Rick Warren's whole plan is unbiblical from the foundation up. Not only that but he has the audacity to claim that his "plan" will "empower churches to do the five things Jesus did. Isn't it the Holy Spirit Who empowers the Church (1 Cor. 5:4-5)? Jesus Himself did not come to "overcome ... Spiritual Emptiness, Self-serving Leadership, Poverty, Disease and ignorance (or illiteracy)” of the whole world. He came to die on a cross to save us from our sins! When He comes again he will make things right, not before. His death and resurrection are the Gospel, not this Dominionist "take over the world for Christ" silly business. What Warren is accusing anyone, including born again Christians who disagree with him of, is that "People will do to you exactly what they did to me. They will do it because you belong to me, and they don't know the one who sent me." John 15:21 (CEV) In other words anyone who does not go along with his programs, buy his books, sign his manipulative covenants, does not know the Lord Jesus Christ. I find that incredibly offensive!
We are in a spiritual battle for the lives of billions, so we expect opposition. The Bible tells us that "Satan is the accuser of the brethren." Unfortunately, sometimes Christians do Satan's job for him. They accuse and criticize other believers.

I'm sure that makes Satan smile.This is almost exactly what the heretics at Brownsville A/G were saying during their "revival". We were all told that if we did not jump in "the river" that we were the devil, Satan, Sennacharib, demonic, etc. This kind of talk demonstrates that Rick Warren is EXACTLY like his mentor C. Peter Wagner and his Third Wave false apostles. They use diaprax to demonize ANYONE who raises a biblical objection to what they are doing. Not only that but you have to marvel at the hyper-inflated egos of people like Warren with their claims of influence on "the lives of billions". Just because millions bought his books does not make him the leader of Christianity, nor does it prove that God is sanctioning his projects. We have many articles on just how biblically far afield Warren's "Purpose Driven" drivel is. What makes Satan smile is when false teachers are allowed to call themselves evangelicals and drive Christendumb (not misspelled) into misguided and fruitless Kingdom Now theology.

The Bible says it is foolish to spout off about issues before knowing the facts, but the Internet has made it very easy to do. God says, "He who answers before listening--that is his folly and his shame." Prov. 18:13 (NIV) God also says, "Fools have no interest in understanding; they only want to air their own opinions." Prov. 18:2 (NLT)

Ah, so anyone who disagrees with Warren is also a "fool". Doesn't the Bible say we should not be calling people fools? (Matt. 5:22)

Recently, 4 "bloggers" made accusations about my visit to Syria (between speaking in Germany and Rwanda). They based their accusations on a Syrian state press release! Of course, they had no idea what my motivation was, what I actually did and said, and the confidential results. But they attacked me anyway. Not a single newspaper carried the story, but several websites repeated the gossip without talking to me to get the facts. Most sites were already critical of The Purpose Driven Church and Life, and were just happy to have something else to attack. Before going to Syria (as a pastor, not a politician) I called Franklin Graham who is very experienced in dealing with the Middle East and asked him what I should say. He said "Thank the government for protecting the freedom of churches from radical Muslims." The Christian leaders I met with in Syria said the exact same thing. This does not excuse other government actions that we've all read about. But my visit was not political, but to encourage the Christian leaders there, and to get permission from the government to do the PEACE plan in Syria, which we were given!

First of all, I know there are "bloggers" out there who have stuff about Warren on their sites. I am not a blogger. I have had a web site online since the Internet began, and before that I had a BBS for those of you with long memories. My web sites predate Saddleback's web site, just for the record.
But actually what happened is that Warren, in schmoozing with the enemy, put down the very country that has given him the freedom to speak as he wishes. Just because Warren spoke to Franklin Graham does not make him an ambassador for Christianity. Who asked him to say the things he did? There are many believers that would rather see Rick keep his mouth shut and not represent Christianity to the world after seeing him on many, many TV shows where he was given many golden opportunities to preach the Gospel but chose instead to play politics. It is not our place as Christians to be politicians. Our mission is to preach the Gospel and disciple Christians from all nations. Why in heaven's name would Syria be interested in Warren's P.E.A.C.E. plan unless it was being presented in conjunction with what the UN has already been trying to do for years? How many Christians agree with the UN's ideas for peace? This is just another evidence that Warren is on the same wavelength as the UN and CFR because this is the same globalism that is being promoted behind closed doors. Conversely, this is not anything that would remotely resemble a presentation of the Gospel.

Another blogger claimed I've invited Barack Obama to preach in my pulpit to the Saddleback congregation. Of course that is untrue. I'd never invite ANY politician to speak from the pulpit to our congregation. Never. The blogger got his facts wrong but he told everyone to call our church office and complain. Many of these people were quite rude and vicious to our receptionists this past week.
Ah, but Obama IS scheduled to speak at Saddleback! Read on.
Next week, the Global Summit on AIDS and the Church will be held on the Saddleback campus. It is not a church service, but an international summit for pastors and world leaders. Leaders from churches, denominations, health, NGOs, Christian organizations, governments, businesses, and entertainment will meet together to discuss how they can work with churches to end AIDS.


I think it is high time to move the UN out of New York to Saddleback, don't you? Of course now Warren is going to have to explain his badmouthing of NGOs just recently on Fox. “I would trust a pastor or a rabbi of a synagogue or an imam of a Muslim mosque more then I would trust a government or NGO.” (Can Rick Warren Change the World? Fox Video – video time 2:15 Aug.19, 2006 Fox News). But then he will also have to explain why he called Christians who disagree with him in any way unbelievers, Satan and fools.


Participants will hear messages from Laura Bush, Sen. Bill Frist, Sen. Sam Brownback, Bill Gates, Bono, the doctor who discovered AIDS transmission heterosexually, Franklin Graham, the President of World Vision, the President of World Relief, the President of Compassion, and about 30 other speakers who are concerned about AIDS.

Wow. What a panel! In a church!! So glad Franklin Graham is now cozying up to Warren. I guess once you get the #1 spot on the Time Magazine most influential evangelicals then God has spoken and everyone must now go to Saddleback "UN West" and schmooze with unbelievers like Gates and Bono.

Sen. Obama is one speaker at a conference which includes Republicans and Democrats, Christians and non-Christians, pastors, business leaders, and all kinds of races from around the world. Yet the vitriol and unChristlike slander was over the top.

But I thought that it was "untrue" that Obama was invited and politicians are never invited to Saddleback? What is Rick talking about? Is he bipolar? He is doing the very thing he berates others for pointing out. Why is it "vitriol" to point out that Warren has made a mockery of Christianity in his church? When you see people who think they are leading the Christian world turning truth in to a lie and back again, you have to know another spirit is at work.


This weekend I am teaching a message called "Living By Your Convictions" where I'll explain the 6 Biblical convictions that are the framework for all we do at Saddleback. This message will be released on pastors.com for free on Monday.

I am wondering if "living by your convictions" includes telling the truth?


Of course, you friends know my heart, my motivation, and my 26 year track record. What matters to me is not pleasure...possessions...prestige...politics...power.. or popularity. I couldn't care less about these things.

Of course. We can all see this in the way Warren has comported himself over a number of years since his books hit the bestseller lists. When I think of people who have no desire for prestige, politics, power or popularity the very FIRST person that comes to my mind is Rick Warren!


I care about bringing people to Jesus, and I will do whatever it takes to "Reach One More For Jesus" as my father's dying words instructed me. No criticism will ever stop me from doing that.

Criticism will not stop him in WHATEVER he deems right in his own eyes. But it has not prodded him into any real presentation of the Gospel in his books or on TV. Apparently "reach one more for Jesus" means something different to many of us out here because that entails actually telling the truth and preaching the Gospel, especially when given some of the wide open forums Warren has been given because of his popular books.


Like Paul, God has called me as a missionary to non believing cultures, and he has opened doors in amazing ways to share the Gospel behind lines that pastors don't normally get invited to. Paul was willing to go anywhere and talk to anyone about Jesus. So was Billy Graham. So am I. I'd go into hell if I could bring some people out with me.

Sorry, Rick, but you are NOTHING like Paul. Paul would have some choice words for you, of that I am sure. Does Rick Warren think that mission work started with him? I got news for him: The real day of missions is coming to a close BECAUSE of people like Rick Warren. You can't tell millions of women that they must "learn to love themselves" and be preaching the Gospel. You can't be teaching you church growth methods to false religions. Yet Warren's pastor-training programs welcome Catholics, Methodists, Mormons, Jews and ordained women. "I'm not going to get into a debate over the non-essentials. I won't try to change other denominations. Why be divisive?" he asks, citing as his model Billy Graham, "a statesman for Christ ministering across barriers." ("This evangelist has a 'Purpose'", by Cathy Lynn Grossman, USA TODAY, 7/21/2003) I think it's time for Rick Warren, who says he has no desire for prestige, to stop dropping names and repent for the untruths HE has told.
No matter where I've been invited to speak- to Congress, to the Davos World Economic Forum, at Harvard and Oxford and Cambridge, to the United Nations. to the Foreign Affairs Council, from Rabbis at the University of Judaism to Muslim leaders in the Middle East, from Urban Gays to Rural Cowboys - my message is unchanged: We all need Jesus!

Which "Jesus" would that be? The one that has a "purpose" for everyone alive without regard to salvation according to "Purpose Driven Life"? Those of you who have heard Warren on TV interview programs know that he speaks very little of "Jesus" and a lot about his big plans to save the planet.
Left or Right is irrelevant to me. I'm not a politician. I am a pastor, and my calling is to go "to ALL nations and ALL people " with the saving knowledge of Jesus.

If Rick is not a politician, then why has he been acting like one in virtually every public appearance he has made? Why is he inviting unbelievers to Saddleback to play politics with Christians?
I believe the Good News with all my heart and I want everyone to have the opportunity to respond to it - not just those who come inside the doors of churches.

Well, we'll believe you Rick if Bono, Obama, Gates and others get saved in your church.

I hope you'll join us this weekend, and I hope you'll email the message to others when we post it for free on Monday. I love you all! We're going to have a fantastic Christmas season together! ... Pastor Rick

If this is Warren's idea of a wonderful Christmas, then he and I are living in alternate realities. It is time for Rick Warren to stop doing what he is doing. Biblical Christians should have NOTHING to do with his ego trip plans and programs that are incredibly short on true Bible teaching and long on politics, globalism and power.

Well thats all folks.
I will be posting my own rebuttel to Slick Ricks email later on today-
Tim

17 Comments:

Anonymous Kyrie66 said...

Thanks for this excellent response. You have to wonder if there is something wrong with Rick Warren's head. Either Obama is coming or not. I don't care if he speaks from a pulpit (Saddleback uses a plexiglass music stand thingy...) or in the restroom, standing on a box. This radical, leftist lover of abortion has no business in a Christian church. His solution to the AIDS crisis is to hand out condoms to one and all. That sounds really biblical, doens't it. Fornicate safely, friends. What concord has Christ with this filth? We can only hope that more eyes will be opened as Rick's apostasy and political ambition become more apparent.

10:17 AM  
Blogger Tracye said...

Rick Warren is lieing about Obama. That should not surprise anyone who follows what this man says in the news though.

Below is an email that was sent out via Rick Warren's Pastors.com ,mail list ... as you can see he has quite a list, and on thst list it inlcudes Barach Obama.
__________________________

LIST OF SPEAKERS FOR THE GLOBAL SUMMIT ON AIDS & THE CHURCH

SPECIAL VIDEO PRESENTATIONS
President George W. Bush
Bill & Melinda Gates

INTERNATIONAL HEALTH LEADERS
Robert Redfield, M.D., Institute of Human Virology, University of Maryland, Baltimore
Edward Green, Ph.D., Harvard University anthropologist and AIDS prevention authority
Christian Pitter, M.D., Elizabeth Glaser Pediatric AIDS Foundation
Paul Cimoch, M.D., Center for Special Immunity
Innocent Nyaruhirira, M.D., Minister of State and Health, Rwanda
Derek Spencer, M.S., C.R.N.P., Institute of Human Virology, JACQUES Initiative
Irene Khethi Mngadi, Director of HIV/AIDS, Dept. of Social Development, South Africa
Robb Sheneberger, M.D., Professor & Senior medical advisor, Southern Africa University
Becky Kuhn, M.D. Adult & Pediatric AIDS Clinic, Long Beach, Calif.

RELIEF & HEALTH ORGANIZATIONS
Richard Stearns, President, World Vision
Wess Stafford, President, Compassion International
Franklin Graham, President, Samaritan's Purse
Sammy Mah, President, World Relief
Richard Feacham, President, The Global Fund
Mary Davis Fisher, United Nations Program on HIV/AIDS (UNAIDS)
Rolando Figueroa, Director, Catholic Relief Services, El Salvador
Deborah Dortzbach, International Director, HIV/AIDS, World Relief
Laura van Vuuren, Northwest Medical Teams,

U.S. GOVERNMENT
Ambassador Mark Dybul, United States global AIDS coordinator
Senator Barack Obama, Illinois
Senator Sam Brownback, Kansas
Kent Hill, Director, Bureau for Global Health, U.S. Agency for International Development
Terri Hasdorff, Director, Center for Faith-Based & Community Initiatives, USAID
Chad Haywood, Senior advisor, Center for FBCI, U.S. Agency for International Development

PASTORS & MINISTRY LEADERS
Archbishop Emmanuel Kolini, Archibishop of the Anglican Church of Rwanda
Bishop Charles E. Blake, Pastor, West Angeles Church of God in Christ, Los Angeles
Calvin Butts, Pastor, Abyssinian Baptist Church, New York City,& President of SUNY College
John Ortberg, Pastor, Menlo Park Presbyterian Church, Menlo Park, CA.
John Benn, Pastor, First City Baptist Church, East London, South Africa
Luis Cortés, Jr., President, Esperanza USA
Dennis Rainey, President, FamilyLife
Cliff & Joyce Penner, Ph.D., Authors of The Gift of Sex, Clinical psychologists
Chad Thompson, Author, Loving Homosexuals the Way Jesus Would
Dale Hanson Bourke, Author, The Skeptics Guide to the Global AIDS Crisis
Paul Pennington, Director, Family Life's Hope for Orphans
Bruce Sonnenberg, President, He Intends Victory
Carol Wagstaff, Living Stones Ministries
Tim Wilkins, Cross Ministry
Rick and Barb Wise, Youth Prevention Specialists, Wise Choices

PLUS SADDLEBACK STAFF
Rick and Kay Warren, Founders, Saddleback Church &HIV/AIDS Initiative
Elizabeth Styffe, R.N., M.N., Director, HIV/AIDS Initiative
Mike Constantz, Pastor of Missions & Global P.E.A.C.E Plan
Skip Lanfried, Pastor of North America P.E.A.C.E. Plan
Tommy Hilliker, Pastor of Pastoral Care
Craig Jutila, Pastor of Children’s Ministry
Brad Baker, Pastor of CRAVE Ministry
Shaun Blakeney, Pastor of High School ministry
John Baker, Founder, Celebrate Recovery

4:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I know what I am about to say will not be recieved well. Mr. Warren is NOT a Christain. He cannot be and refuse to be warrior for the Truth and the real Gospel. I am very sad for Mr. Warren and those who have choosen to follow him. Unless God draws these people to Him, individually, they will experince the wrath of God for all eternity. We must continue to battle against false teachers where we find them but we must also pray that God will save them and those who are ensnared by these false teachings.
Faye

4:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I know what I am about to say will not be recieved well. Mr. Warren is NOT a Christain. He cannot be and refuse to be warrior for the Truth and the real Gospel. I am very sad for Mr. Warren and those who have choosen to follow him. Unless God draws these people to Him, individually, they will experince the wrath of God for all eternity. We must continue to battle against false teachers where we find them but we must also pray that God will save them and those who are ensnared by these false teachings.
Faye

4:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

who are you to say Bono is not a believer? he became a Christian at 15 with 2 of the other band members,in the 70/80s house church movement in Dublin..in a recent book conversations written over various years with a friend,in it he mentions His belief in Jesus and the Cross..Also his songs are littered with references to Jesus
eg
I believe in the kingdom come
Then all the colors will bleed into one Bleed into one Well yes Im still running..
You broke the bonds and you
Loosed the chains
Carried the cross
Of my shame
Of my shame
You know I believed it

To claim the victory Jesus won

Will you be back tomorrow
Open up, open up
To the lamb of God
To the love of he who made
The blind to see
He's coming back
He's coming back
I believe it
Jesus coming

the psalm 40 is sung as the song 40 to also the song gloria as many references to Jesus..
in fact theres so many it would feel ur blog...

is Bono perfect? no but are you?? is he different from you yes most prob..but just because hes not ur ideal doesnt mean hes not a christian..does he sin yeah sure he does as u do, and last time i checked a sins a sin...
aj

4:54 PM  
Blogger Tim Wirth said...

I usually will not let anonymous comments fly but I will at my discreretion allow this so we can see where Warrens followers are at. A while back ago I had a Saddleback member leave a anonymous post where the person posed as a unbeleiever and stated it was because of me that the person would not follow Jesus. I tracked the comments to the persons other comments where they gave a name. Same IP address. Is lying part of the fruit of Saddleback.
Dont find that to be a fruit of the Spirit.
Tim

5:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sandy, Sandy, Sandy...

Barack Obama IS scheduled to speak at the HIV/AIDS conference. Notice I said CONFERENCE. It is not a CHURCH SERVICE. It's being held in the only building on the Saddleback campus large enough to hold all the CONFERENCE ATTENDEES. It is NOT an audience of Saddleback attenders. Mr. Obama HAS NOT BEEN INVITED TO PREACH FROM THE PULPIT. Rick Warren is not bipolar, as you so eloquently put it. You are just misinformed. And "Kyrie66" (I know exactly who she is)is a throwback to the legalism that has kept and continues to keep spiritual eyes blinded and hearts from knowing Jesus Christ's grace as the only gift that saves. If it were left up to Kyrie66 to decide who was "worthy" of stepping into a church, all the pews would be empty, for who on this earth could measure up to her lofty standards? Hers, not God's. What was it Jesus said...whitewashed tombs???

5:41 PM  
Blogger Tim Wirth said...

Wow did someone let Abanes out to comment?
Anyway this last comment just messes with semantic's here to cause confusion.
Rick mentioned the speakers in a letter to Saddleback.
What Saddleback does on Sundays cannot be confused with a church service.
So what does it matter if you call it a church service or conferance. Are Saddlback members banned from this conferance?
I dont think so.
Come on Richie at least have the guts to sign your name.
Peace
Tim Wirth

5:50 PM  
Blogger Lindon said...

By allowing Obama to speak at the 'church' he is giving legitimacy to him and his views...all of them.

What amazes me the most is this popular and beloved celebrity pastor who has the ear of Fox, NBC, CBS, CNN, NYT, WaPo, etc., etc.,..... is so angry over '4' bloggers.

That is the part I find bipolar. Isn't the love of the mass media enough for him?

6:15 PM  
Anonymous Touchstone said...

Wow. That post is a schismatic tour de force. This is the mentality that complains when Jesus snaps wheat kernels off their stalks on the sabbath.

It's particularly tragic to read a Christian abidicating the church's role in helping the poor and the seek, with the perverse idea that since "the poor will always be with us", we can wash our hand off the problem. The "least of these" will not have it done unto them by our friendly blogger her, and fellow travelers like Ingrid.

And I can't miss the irony of bloggers like this asking on what grounds Rick Warren speaks for Christianity. Pretty sweet moment, that. Here in this blogger we have an attitude that betrays unregeneration, in style certainly, if not substance. You're simply hastening the world into a post-Christian era with your conflation of the Gospel of Christ with your attitudes displayed here.

It's a compelling suggestion that maybe this whole Christianity thing might be a big sham, after all. If this is what the "watchers" are like, the church is surely doomed.

-Touchstone

7:15 PM  
Anonymous Faithful said...

And yet again we have someone trying to pass off personal attacks--unfounded ones, I daresay, as it is unlikely that "Touchstone" knows any of Warren's detractors personally--as logical arguments to quell discussion of the rightness of someone else's conduct. Mr. Warren has quite a following among the grade-school set...

When you get these, my brother, it means that you've struck home--and they can't return the thrust. I've been observing this at Slice of Laodicea (how I got here, incidentally), and now here.

Congratulations! You're now an official "Boogerhead for Jesus," as the title's been coined. After all, the only thing that Touchstone and his ilk have proven is that they don't like you and want to call you names.

(And when I say "Boogerhead for Jesus," I don't mean -I- think you are--just that someone may as well have called you such.)

I must come up with a "BH4J" badge for sites and blogs...

12:45 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Not messing with semantics, Tim, just setting the record straight by stating the correct facts.

Have you personally ever attended a worship service at Saddleback Church? If you haven't, your comment "What Saddleback does on Sundays cannot be confused with a church service" is merely an example of flawed logic and prejudice. I have noticed many "critics" of Rick Warren have never met him and many "critics" of Saddleback Church have never attended one of their services.

Tell me what exactly you know as fact happens at Saddleback on any given Sunday. Please, I'd like to know what you base your assessment on. In what context is a worship service where telling people the Good News that Jesus saves occurs not considered a church service?

To further set the record straight, while the HIV/AIDS global summit conference is open for Saddleback members to attend, church members will not comprise the majority of the crowd. Does it matter? It DOES if people like you and so many others wish to distinguish whether Barack Obama and others are "preaching from the pulpit" or merely guests who are speaking at a conference. It makes a BIG difference.

Flattered to be mistaken for Richard Abanes, but this is definitely not him!

3:22 AM  
Blogger aj said...

tim i hope ur post wasnt in ref to me..im not a member of saddleback, it would be very hard to,living in uk... strawrifle@yahoo.co.uk email & ur see if thats not enough email and i would be happy for u to ring to prove that..hopefuly ur still post this aj

6:32 AM  
Anonymous Jim Anderson said...

Here is some food for thought.

John 8:7
He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone
NASU

12:10 PM  
Anonymous Touchstone said...

We have the Minnesota Arboretum right nearby here, and several different startup churches rotate through their nice large meeting rooms on any given week. Now, when an Assembly of God startup church service on Saturday night gives way to startup Baptist service on Sunday morning, is the AoG pastor lending the power of his pulpit to the Baptist pastor the next morning?

Hardly. Their both speaking from the very same dais, in the same room, but the context has changed. And noone is confused there about how that works. On monday the same lectern is used to present sales charts and figures to a nearby company using the same meeting room for a sales meeting. Have the pastors from Sat. and Sun. debased their pulpits to the service of mammon?

It's cold dark heart of injustice and self-serving anger that runs through this blog on this issue. Would that you were treated how you treat others, your eyes would be opened, and you would see things anew.

Ingrid, Tim, Sandy, three in the crowd who *would* heave the first stone toward the woman caught in adultery. And call it "faithfulness" to boot.

-Touchstone

2:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Anonymous,

Ha, ha, ha. Your arguments are so juvenile. You don't have to meet someone to know they are false or that they are liars. I recall seeing recordings of or reading quotes by the likes of Hitler, Stalin, Dahmer, etc. and having enough sense to know they were LIARS. Surely one can have enough discernment from quotes, transcripts, television, radio and magazine interviews to know where the person being interviewed stands without having to personally meet them.

Also, you miss the point ENTIRELY in reguards to whether Obama is speaking from the "pulpit" or at a conference at the Saddleback Campus. THE POINT IS: Obama is PROMOTING MURDER, MURDER, MURDER, MURDER, MURDER, MURDER, MURDER. And Rick Warren is promoting a guy who is promoting MURDER, MURDER, MURDER, MURDER, MURDER. Are you daft?????????????????????

Of course Rick Warren also promotes Leonard Sweets books. Leonard Sweet promotes David Spangler a known LUCIFER WORSHIPPER, LUCIFER WORSHIPER, LUCIFER WORSHIPPER. That means, Rick Warren promotes those who promote LUCIFER WORSHIPPERS, LUCIFER WORSHIPPERS, LUCIFER WORSHIPPERS.

The New Age writer Mariann Williamson is anti-christ and she supports Rick Warren. That means ANTI-CHRIST SUPPORTS RICK WARREN. ANTI-CHRIST SUPPORTS RICK WARREN. ANTI-CHRIST SUPPORTS RICK WARREN.

Wake up

RACHEL

6:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To those who pervert scripture only to show your complete and utter ignorance of basic theology, all in an attempt to support Rick Warren, I have to ask you this. What is the only way to get to heaven? In case you're not sure read John 14:6. Let me say this as lovingly as possible, the "love thy neighbor" used in context as a couple of you have is completely false. How "compassionate" is it to comfort those suffering from AIDS only to watch them go to hell for ETERNITY because you refuse to tell them that they must repent (as we all must) from their sins and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ. As someone who has read and written a thesis on Warren's books and teachings, please provide me evidence as to him teaching that Jesus Christ is the ONLY way to get to heaven. He actually teaches in "The Purpose Driven Life" that non believers will stand before the Judgement Seat and have their "works" evaluated. This is totally false teaching.

As to Warren or any other Christian taking on a "mission" under the banner of Christendom with someone like Obama or the many others he has, please reference 2Cor 6:14-17, unless you are enjoying your "unrighteous fellowship" too much.

Mike

3:08 PM  

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