The No Goofy Zone Discernment Ministry

The No Goofy Zone is a discernment ministry for saved born again Christians and all who are seeking the truth.We expose non-biblical trends in the church. We are making material available to advance understanding of issue's which endanger Christianity. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit.

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Location: Piqua, Ohio, United States

Former drummer for Gary Lewis and The Playboys and The Coasters. Tim has also played with Paul Baloche, Lincoln Brewster, Darlene Zscech and Hillsongs, Jeff Fenholt, SteveCamp among others. Tim founded The Simply Agape Project in 2001 to get free Christian music to the troops. Recordings have been made with Tim, and friends Alex Acuna, Abe Laboriel SR, Justo Almario,Steve Camp , Jared Ming and some wonderful Independant Christian artists.The Somebody Brave CD also features words of encouragment to the soldiers from Pastors, Moms, Dads, and Lt Col Brian Birdwell a Pentegon 9/11 survivor Tim is married to Donna Wirth and has four children Alan 25,Steven 23, Brittany 22, Bethany 21. Tim has played in numerous churchs as well as shows on TBN. Tim has also performed on JCTV on the show Generation Worship featuring worship leader Jared Ming. Tim has a book published worldwide titled "Pass The Plate And Let Us Prey" (My Search For Black and White Christianity in a Gray Nation)

Sunday, December 03, 2006

Putting Your finger On It (The first signs of a church going astray)

I received this email from my friend and sister in the Lord -Shelley

Begging Tim W's pardon, I'll make the same query (only w/ better grammer!) that posted at his site:
Something to think on: How about writing an article titled "Putting Your FingerOn It (The first signs of a church going astray)"?Rick Warren may fail and fade away, but you can be certain that two more willarise to take his place. What are some timeless symptoms that the naggingfeeling something is wrong at your church, but it's hard to say what, is, infact, Biblically justified?Easy markers are denying the Virgin birth or condoning sin, but I have in mindthe subtle ones, the slowly boiled frog syndrome.Right now we could advise someone to watch for certain buzzwords or resourcematerials, but that will change in time. What would you say are the top ten(timeless) signs of a church/pastor that has begun to wander off the Way?One possible example might be a variation on, "We need to do things differently our church is going to grow", which is a different statement from, "We needto get back on track with the Bible if we're going to grow spiritually".So many people in my former church told me, after the fact, that they'd felt increasingly uneasy during the previous couple of years but, "I just couldn'tput my finger on it", hence the proposed title. My desire would be for something that can be made available to those who need an assist in jump starting their ability to exercise discernment.Sincerely,Shelley Childs, Boston, MA.

Shelley also told me that Berit Kjos is working on a article like this as well.
I will let you know when that happens because Berit is a great writer.

Well here goes Shelley and I hope this helps.

To begin this is a hard topic to address because I personally feel that the American church at a whole is apostate.
Its hard these days to find a church thats not Word Faithed, Purpose Driving, Willow Creeked or Schullerized or Emerging into the Ooze or something like that.
Many churches have already gone astray because a lot of these systems have not relied on the Holy Spirit but instead have gotten the opinions of unsaved , unregenerate minds on what they want in a church.
And these variety of systems have served it up.
Pastors rely on the internet for their sermons because they are to busy being a CEO (if your pastor already has that title run goofy is sure to follow).
Pastors need to be on their knees crying out to God to have the Holy Spirit lead them into all truth.
Instead they download a variety of sermons made by some one else who did not rely on the Holy Spirit.
Do you see the vicious circle here?
So lets put the focus on discernment.
And the lack of discernment is why we are in the mess we are in anyway.

Discernment isn't usually a sudden zap from beyond, but something that emerges from hard work.
How do you tell the counterfeit (whether its Warren new religion or the next fad) from the real thing.
Spend most of your time studying the real thing.
The Bible, The Word of God and Sola Scriptura.
People who's job it is to tell counterfeit money from fake will tell you 100% of the time, the best process is to study the real thing.
The counterfeit then really sticks out.

So I believe the number one sign to tell if a church is gone astray is a church that will try to get you away from your Bible.
And they can do that in a number of ways.

Using a bunch of different translations to make a point and proof texting.

Im not a King James only guy but face it folks their are a bunch of stinky wanabe bibles out there that are in name only a bible..
The Message is the absolute worse.
And its not even the Word of God and should not be called so because The Message is what Eugene Peterson thinks the Bible says.
Its not a true translation anyway.
Churches have really dumbed down their congregations on their Bible and instead put it up on the big screen.
But lets face it we are slowly going into the dark agaes not because our Bibles are illegal and we cant read them.
The fact is believers have made themselves so busy doing things for God, programs or what not that they dont take the time to read their Bibles for themselves.
This is the biggest problems we have today and churches like Joel Osteens and Rick Warrens would not even be around if folks read their Bibles.
Because they could tell (throught the Holy Spirit) truth from error.

The pastor needs to start out with a joke.
Not always bad but if you take a good look at whats going on in our country today whats so funny.
We should all be in sack cloth and ashes because of the number of helpless innocent babies that are killed on the altar of convience today in America.

You want to see fruit of American Christianity turn on your TV and then remember what you could find on TV 20-30 years ago.
Things have changed folks.

If your church puts the focus on the music ministry it may have gone astray.
Hey I dont like poorly played music or singing either but if your music has been made into a show-run. Music has been made to have way to much a major role in the church.
Was it a major role in the early church.
absolutely not or the apostles would have wrote about it.
Music plays way to much of a major role in the church today.
Hey folks you can worship God by working hard at your jobs.
You can worship God by being honest and living a good life.

Questions to ask about a church-
Does it centers us onto Jesus the Christ and Lord, and His good new?
Does it directs us to Scripture, not away from it?
Isaiah 8:19-20 "19 And when they say to you, Seek those who are mediums and wizards, who whisper and mutter, should not a people seek their God? Should they seek the dead on behalf of the living?
20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Check the fruit in the church.
People all in all will be modestly dressed. Im not a big suit and tie guy but its still a good thing to dress nice for church.
What seeker sensitive did to our churches was lowered the standard of dress.
Let me give you a example-
The church I attended and played at in Modesto, CA was First Baptist church down town.
There were times during the summer that I couldnt even look out into the congregation because women were so wordly dressed with body parts hanging out.
Sitting with their husbands no less.
Now these women were believers.
Their daughters dressed the same way.
These were people who had attended church for a long time.
So now the dress standards had been lowered they literally let it all hang out.
The funny thing is that a rough group of women who were from a rehab ministry were more modestly dressed because they didnt know any better.
They hadnt been to church for a long time and didnt know the standards had changed.
I did complain to upper management about this.
Namely the worship pastor . He let me know that the senior pastor was aware of the problem.
The bigger problem is since the church is now just a business you will lose business if you tell people about sin and all that other nasty stuff.
Modesty is a not a hard fix if you are willing to lose people who just want to wear what they want to wear.
Modesty is a huge problem in the church today and it shows the bad fruit of seeker sensitive.

In conclusion-
The Holy Spirit works through Scripture, not against it.
It is to be used in the light of freedom in Christ.
*that Scripture does not speak against it;
*that the practice or teaching conveys the Gospel, and is fully in keeping with the root and heart of Christian belief found in Scripture;
*that it turns the focus onto Christ, not persons, ideas, ideologies, organizations, wondrous signs, or activities;
*that it is truthful, not rooted in a lie or distortion.

Church actions should be set up to discern the right direction before it acts, to keep effective tabs on it while it acts, taking whatever disciplinary actions or clarifying lessons are needed. Do this, expecting that the Spirit will lead, if really asked and really given a chance to lead.


One drawback of the church's role in discernment is that it is made up of people. (It's a benefit in more ways, but here's one way that it's also a drawback.) People are strange, and sometimes do wrong. They are not all-knowing, and have badly-damaged understandings. They can be fooled. People love to be sweet talked, to be showered with puffery and to get their egos stroked. They push aside what's bad news for the camp they're in. It's easy to become a yes-man or to get stuck in the 'no' position. These facts must be kept in mind when discerning with the church. But remember too that these things are also true of you. Your role in discernment requires checking and re-checking and cross-checking, and so does the church's.

Discernment is more than the work of an individual person. The Spirit acts within the gathered believers (the Church) so they can discern what to do and be.
Thats why Im grateful to people like Steve Muse, Bud Press, Paul Proctor, Berit Kjos, Deb Dombrowski and others who share in this battle.
But its up to you to to be a faithful Berean.
And search the scriptures to see if what is said is true.

You see religions like the one Rick Warren has created is rooted in Peter Drucker and Robert Schuller not Jesus Christ.

And you can bet the next phase or fad will be rooted in someone other than the person of Jesus Christ.


I will finish up my series on music at the end of the next week. Im doing a indepth sturdy on music and how it affects humans saved or unsaved.
And if the results should be different.

2 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Amen, Amen, and AMEN!
This should be a real eye opener to all who are following the purpose driven pied piper.

(I posted a link to your blog on the sidebar of mine, I hope that was okay. Please let me know if not :) )

12:06 PM  
Blogger Tim Wirth said...

Hi Amy: Thanks for asking. And yes thats fine. Thanks for spreading the word.
Blessings
Tim Wirth

4:02 PM  

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