The No Goofy Zone Discernment Ministry

The No Goofy Zone is a discernment ministry for saved born again Christians and all who are seeking the truth.We expose non-biblical trends in the church. We are making material available to advance understanding of issue's which endanger Christianity. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit.

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Location: Piqua, Ohio, United States

Former drummer for Gary Lewis and The Playboys and The Coasters. Tim has also played with Paul Baloche, Lincoln Brewster, Darlene Zscech and Hillsongs, Jeff Fenholt, SteveCamp among others. Tim founded The Simply Agape Project in 2001 to get free Christian music to the troops. Recordings have been made with Tim, and friends Alex Acuna, Abe Laboriel SR, Justo Almario,Steve Camp , Jared Ming and some wonderful Independant Christian artists.The Somebody Brave CD also features words of encouragment to the soldiers from Pastors, Moms, Dads, and Lt Col Brian Birdwell a Pentegon 9/11 survivor Tim is married to Donna Wirth and has four children Alan 25,Steven 23, Brittany 22, Bethany 21. Tim has played in numerous churchs as well as shows on TBN. Tim has also performed on JCTV on the show Generation Worship featuring worship leader Jared Ming. Tim has a book published worldwide titled "Pass The Plate And Let Us Prey" (My Search For Black and White Christianity in a Gray Nation)

Saturday, August 11, 2007

Abanes , Harry Potter and a little Warren

2 Thess 2:3-12
Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come unless the rebellion comes first and the lawless one is revealed, the one destined for destruction.
He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, declaring himself to be God.
Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
And you know what is now restraining him, so that he may be revealed when his time comes.
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

The past month I had cable shut off and went to satellite TV to try to get more family friendly material. I was interested that several Christian TV channels were listed.
To my dismay the Christian TV was worse than secular because the airtime is now filled with false teachers such as Benny Hinn, Paula White, Steve Muncey and the list goes on.
There has also been a second coming of sorts which now features Jim Baker on TV selling junk again, Peter Popoff, and Robert Tilton.
Benny Hinn , Tilton, Popoff have been exposed to be the frauds and false teachers they are.
But people still send them money and follow their ministries-amazing how the deception has blinded many.
I believe as well a false Christianity is taking shape through the likes of Rick Warren, Bill Hybels, Paul Yongii Cho and many others.
A man centered religion where pastors do not seek the Holy Spirit's guidance but their own vain imaginations to build big business's.
These men like Warren are no longer even pastors or shepherds. I believe Rick Warren refers to them as ranchers.
The Holy Spirit is letting go of restraining evil and letting man and his own wits have their own way.
Read those verses above again and compare them to the times we are now in.

On to Abanes-
These comments are from Richard Abanes blog. Richard is the defender of all things Warren and has made attempts to debate me in the past to no avail.
Richard had disappeared from the blog world for almost a year or so.
I would believe that he has emerged because he has a new book out.
Who knows.
I had been interested in what Richard thought of Rick Warren promoting Harry Potter through Ricks own Ministry Toolbox. I first emailed Richard privately once James Emery White posted a article on Harry Potter and his promoting it on Ricks site.
I received no res ponce.
Then I saw Richards blog and site was up so I asked him there. Richard addressed my comments but would not post them. And hey I respect that its Richards blog he can do what he chooses. Anyway here is Richards full blog response get your hip waders on and watch out you dont trip over Richards ego and self promotion.
Abanes has not changed or grown up in the past year or so.
And I think thats sad.
Here we go-

was recently notified via blogger of the following question/statement from Tim Wirth, who sought to post his comment in my The Evil Hogwarts Professor blog entry:

"I would be very interested in your comments about James Emery Whites endorsement of the new Harry Potter book on Rick Warrens Ministry Toolbox which goes out to thousands of pastors. Actually I was suprised to see this because you are basically from the same camp and I thought your original book "Harry Potter and the Bible " was a good read and helped the Body of Christ with good information.I would think a Rick Warren endorsement of Harry Potter would be a conflict of interest with you."

As some background, Tim Wirth is an individual whom I have not gotten along with in the past. He has, on more than one occasion, attacked me personally for my views regarding Rick Warren, author of The Purpose Driven Life. In a nutshell, according to Wirth, because I do not consider Warren a heretic, that means that I have somehow been deceived by the siren song of a false gospel. Be that as it may, Wirth raised some interesting points in his post that desereve a full-blown blog response.

* * * * * ** * * * * * *

Dear Tim,

You would be "very interested" in my comments? Nicely put. My conflicts with you in the past have shown me that you are far more interested in fighting, sniping, and name-calling, than you are in rational discourse, especially when it comes to one of your pet obsessions—Rick Warren. I can only shake my head at this point (sigh). Must you be sooooo obvious in your attempts to turn me against Rick Warren by taking Harry Potter, then using mental acrobatics (and half-truths), make it seem like Warren is somehow pushing HP on pastors and churches. Goodness.

Nevertheless, I shall answer you—and be done with it. I am NOT going to allow this blog to be turned into a Rick Warren free-for-all. So, here is your response. And unless you can discuss things rationally, then any further attempts to post in this blog will be rejected. You may, of course, send or post any of the following as long as you do not take me out of context or misrepresent the thrust of my argument (I know, I know, it'll be hard for you, but try):

1. I doubt that Rick Warren has even read HP, just as I doubt that he has personally read every single book listed on White's “Summer Reading” list published in Warren's Issue #316, 6/20/2007. That list includes about a dozen books. Really, do you think Warren, between flying all over the world in addition to his pastoral duties, has spent his valuable time pouring over each of those twelve books, particularly Earthly Powers: The Clash of Religion and Politics in Europe, from the French Revolution to the Great War, or Dissolution (a novel of Tudor England), or Einstein: His Life and Universe? I don't. I am fairly confident that White, as a respected cultural apologist, simply has a standing invitation to publish his lists through Warren's Toolbox, and that is about as far as that goes. So, stop already with the Rick Warren is a HP pusher jag. Get a statement from Rick Warren on Harry Potter before you say: "So it seems that Rick Warren does endorse reading Harry Potter or considers it harmless fantasy." You DO have a quote like that, right? . . . Yeah, I thought so.

2. In the very article you quote, White explains EXACTLY why he includes HP on the list. The very nature of his list is to point people toward books that are relevant to our culture, history, literature, etc. etc. etc. White states (I'll say it again here because it seems you missed it): "My reading list, of course, is not meant to endorse the content of the books, but to recommend the importance of reading the books. For example, the list also recommended reading one of the three main 'atheist' apologetics released this year, such as Christopher Hitchens’ God Is Not Great. I am surprised a blogger or two, using the same reasoning, didn’t accuse me and Rick of endorsing atheism!" That's pretty clear for anyone who can read. . . . Oh, sorry, Tim (tee-hee-hee).

3. As for White's personal views of HP, I would challenge him on a number of statements he has made. I don't believe he has accurately worked through many of the issues relating to Harry Potter—and I'd be the first one to tell him that both publicly and privately. For example, he has said, "the magic used in the books is mechanical, not blatantly occultic. No more than the magical powers of Superman." This is inaccurate. At best, it is simplistic. I discuss this whole issue of mechanical magic in my book Harry Potter, Narnia, and The Lord of the Rings. I suggest very strongly that you get a copy of this book, Tim.

In all honesty, I know we are not the best of friends, and that's too bad. But if you want ammunition for accurately, solidly, and thoroughly handling the Harry Potter issue, you really need this updated, revised, and expanded volume I have done on the three works in the title (I also include a significant amount of material on Philip Pullman's His Dark Material and R.L. Stine). Here are a few more statements that White makes with which I disagree. I would be most happy to debate White or anyone else on the issue of HP—any time, any place. I'll let you arrange that one (lol). Basically, White just seems to be repeating what the likes of Connie Neal, John Granger, and Francis Bridger have said about HP without actually taking the time to do the research himself:

WHITE: "The characters develop courage, loyalty, and the willingness toward self-sacrifice"
ME: This is hardly a well-rounded assessment of the behavior displayed by the characters. It utterly downplays, to the point of ignoring, the less-admirable aspects of their moral/ethical actions.

WHITE: "Harry Potter books are best lumped with the fantasy works of C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien, where wizards and witches and magical potions also abound, but in a fantasy framework where the author uses them to present good as good, and evil as evil."
ME: Absolutely false, false, false. I cannot stress this any more forcefully. J.K. Rowling herself has distanced HP from the works of both Lewis AND Tolkien. So, on this point, White and others are contradicting none other than the author of the HP series (documentation is in Harry Potter, Narnia, and The Lord of the Rings).

WHITE: "Rowling’s appreciation for Lewis runs so deep that his writing was the primary reason for seven Potter books - she wanted to match the seven in the Narnia series."
ME: False. Wrong. Urban Legend. Poor research on White's part. Again, he is just repeating what he has heard from others. Rowling decided on the number seven as the series completion because she believes the number seven to be "a magical number, a mystical number" (Rowling interview, LA Times, Oct. 25, 2000). And according to her first husband, who was there when she started writing the series, Rowling "had planned the full series of sven books because she believed the number seven has magical associations" (Daily Express, quoted in New York Post, July 11, 2000). This same explanation is confirmed in the introduction to Beacham Publication's educational resource book, Exploring Harry Potter, which reads: "Ms. Rowling has spoken extensively about her plans for future Potter novels, and stated that the magical number seven will see the conclusion of Harry's education at Hogwarts." (So, there you go, James, if you're out there, THAT is why Rowling planned seven volumes. It had nothing to do with Lewis. I do not know where this rumor came from or who started it.)

WHITE: "Rowling herself is a professing Christian and member of the Church of Scotland, and while she doesn’t pretend the Harry Potter series are overtly Christian books, a Christian worldview is behind every page."
ME: This is a far-fetched assumption based on a few highly generalized statements from Rowling that have often been repeated over the years by Harry Potter fans in the Christian community. I discuss at length Rowling's supposed Christianity not only in Harry Potter, Narnia, and The Lord of the Rings, but also in a recent ongoing interview about HP that is being posted over at the Harry Potter Community Journal.

Well, I think that about covers it.

Do I believe White is some kind of heretic for being in error on these points? NO. Do I think Warren is a heretic for having White post his booklist in a Ministry Toolbox? NO. Would I say to Rick Warren exactly what I've said here in reponse to White if he were to raise the same pro-HP arguments raised by White? Absolutely! People get all kinds of things right and wrong. Surprise, surprise. We're all human. I will close with a quote from the interview I am currently given at the Harry Potter Community Journal.

"My main point regarding Harry Potter books has remained consistent over the years: Like them. Love them. Hate them. Whatever. But know what they contain, not only from a spiritual perspective (pro & con), but also from an ethical/moral perspective (pro & con). Then, make an appropriate decision for yourselves and your children based on the possible effects of such content, especially on the malleable minds of young, impressionable kids. The HP series should be approached like any other stack of books. They must be judged according to their content, neither overly condemned, nor overly accepted. Take them for what they are, not for what one may want them to be, either out of fear of them, or out of some misguided sense that because culture as a whole accepts them, we also must accept them wholeheartedly or look foolish. I see both of those extremes being displayed within the Christian community. And it's unfortunate. I've looked at the subject, or at least I've tried to look at it, very even-handedly. When it comes to HP, it's really a fairly simple issue, at least to me. But the waters have become muddied by people on both sides of the fence who have their own agenda (especially within the Christian community, where everyone should be showing more restraint, love, and a willingness to look at the facts with an eye toward finding the truth). You have the true Harry-haters on one hand who want to ban/burn the books because they contain occult imagery and mythological references. They are not recognizing the literary merit in the volumes, nor are they seeing some of the valuable lessons in the story or the positive character traits in several of the characters. On the other hand, you have the Harry-worshipers who refuse to hear anything negative about the volumes, and have gone so far as to twist and pervert the books into what they want them to be -- i.e., a blatant Christian allegory (despite words to the contrary by J.K. Rowling, whom they claim to admire so much)."

Richard Abanes
Posted by rabanes at 9:26 AM 0 comments

Tuesday, August 07, 2007

This was my comments to Richard after his post. My comments were not posted on Richards blog and again I respect that.

Richard: Thank you for your comments. And of course answering in a way you alone can do. Im glad to see by your comments you still know how to dance.
I have read your other book Harry Potter, Narnia, and the Lord of the Rings. Thought it was pretty much a copy and paste job on the writing. I enjoyed your other book "Harry Potter and The Bible" and again thought it had some good well thought out views and helped the Body of Christ.
As far as Rick not knowing about James Emery White promoting Harry Potter on Ricks website I find that very hard to believe.
If Rick does not know shame on him for not being more responsible.
I agree though Im not going to take Rick Warren to task on your site.
Just like the people that send Benny Hinn money still after constant reliable information and expose' they didnt get it then, they probably wont get it in the future.
The same goes for Rick Warren and what he is all about.
And just for the record you know that I emailed you as soon as the James Emery White article and endorsement came out.
I really did want to see what you think because of what you profess to believe.
Im kinda glad your back out in the blog world again though.
You'll do more in exposing what Rick Warren is all about than I could every do.
The Bible states we will know them by their fruits.
I do hope you finish well though.
Tim Wirth
I will address this all on my blog in more detail.

Tim Wirth

Well folks thats it judge this for yourselves. I do believe that Richard will always do more in exposing what Rick Warren is all about than most discernment ministries ever will.

Matt 7:15-16
""Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?"

Eph 5:11
"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them ."

And to Richard Abanes who my friends in discernment ministries have nicknamed Sir Hamalot.
I hope you finish well and the Holy Spirit wakes you up.
Tim Wirth


Anonymous Ike/Truth Matters said...

I don't know anything about HP, but I do know alot about Rick Warren.
Rick Warren has allowed an enemy to invade the church. This enemy is "man". He has allowed his church and thousands of other churches to c/c his methods. They have become man-centered instead of God-centered, and the focus is is on felt needs instead of God's glory!
The great need of the hour is revival and reform that produces true churches where God is the center, the glory of God is the focus, and the Bible is the authority.

10:20 PM  

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