Article on John Bevere
One of my readers a dear sister in the Lord asked-Tim,
What do you know about John Bevere?
This is a great topic since Warren apoligist Richard Abanes has been all over the internet openly critisisng those of us who have discernement and have discernment ministries.This also has bearing on the recent meeting Rick Warren and his team had with Bob Dewaay and Chris Rosebrough.
Here is a quote from John Bevere- keep in mind all this deception ties together.
Bevere on the subject of discernment ...
John Bevere : "I am so tired of criticalness being called discernment. Do you want to know true discernment? Paul said "That your love may abound in all discernment." When you are willing to die for somebody that is when you are actually discerning them. Jesus could call the Pharisees hypocrites and snakes because he went to the cross and died for them. So the next time you are quote "discerning" about somebody ask yourselves the question could you die for them? If you can`t say yes, you're critical because the love of God is to lay down your life for them, and discernment is rooted only in love. Got it?" (John Bevere, The Christian Channel Europe "The Messenger" 26/3/98)
It is true that Christians need to speak the truth in love among brothers in the Faith (Eph. 4:15). Conversely, and not taught by Bevere, Christians are also to mark, avoid and reject the divisive ones, heretics (Rom. 16:17, Tit. 3:10). Apparently Bevere wants to major on discernment among those who call themselves believers to the exclusion of rejecting heresy from the wolves in sheep's clothing. But what Bevere teaches that is false teaching is that it is wrong for Christians to be "critical". The Greek word from which we get the English word "critical" is kritikos. Strongs says it means discerner, relating to judging, fit for judging, skilled in judging. The Bible clearly teaches that Christians are to learn to discern.
KRITIKOS -- TO DISCERN
For the Word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge [kritikos] the thoughts and intentions of the heart (Hebrews 4:12). Cells called erythrocytes are stored in the red marrow of big bones, like the femur and the tibia. On the outside there is the bone and on the inside there is the marrow. But in between there is an area where, even with a microscope, it is very difficult to tell where the bone ends and where the marrow begins. The Bible says that the relationship between soul and spirit is like that. Take prophecy: Was that from someone's imagination, or was it God's Spirit speaking through their spirit? It is very difficult to tell the difference. Man is a three-dimensional being. You can separate a body from a soul; but you cannot easily tell where the soul ends and the spirit begins. When people say, "The Lord showed me this" and "God told me that," it is difficult to know if it is someone's imagination or God's Spirit speaking to their spirit. The mind is a good servant, but a dangerous master. Many people are caught up with things not overtly demonic, but they are prophesying from the futility of their own mind. We are called to kritikos -- to discern between the soulish and the spiritual. The Word of God enables us to separate the bone from the marrow, the spiritual from the purely soulish. (Jacob Prasch, Judge Not?, http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/judgenot.html)
Another word for discern in Greek is diakrisis. It means discerning, discern, disputation, a distinguishing, discerning, judging. This word is used in the context of commanding Christians to use critical discernment in the following passages:
1 Cor. 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning (diakrisis) of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.
Heb 5:14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern (diakrisis) both good and evil.
1 Cor. 12:10 is the same type of discernment that John speaks of in 1 John 4:1.
1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test (dokimazo) the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Dokimazo means prove, try, approve, discern, allow, like, test, examine, scrutinise (to see whether a thing is genuine or not), as metals, to recognise as genuine after examination, to approve, deem worthy. Dokimazo is used in these verses commanding Christians to use critical discernment.
Lu 12:56 Ye hypocrites, ye can discern (dokimazo) the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern (dokimazo) this time?
Lu 14:19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove (dokimazo) them: I pray thee have me excused.
Ro 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain (dokimazo) God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Ro 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove (dokimazo) what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
1Co 11:28 But let a man examine (dokimazo) himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove (dokimazo) your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Ga 6:4 But let every man prove (dokimazo) his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.
Eph 5:10 Proving (dokimazo) what is acceptable unto the Lord.
Php 1:10 That ye may approve (dokimazo) things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ;
1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try (dokimazo) the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Th 5:21 Prove (dokimazo) all things; hold fast that which is good.
I could go on and on with word studies having to do with discernment, testing,
Read the rest of the article here from my friend and brother in the Lord Sandy Simpson.
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/beverequotes.html
Peace and thanks Marie-Tim
What do you know about John Bevere?
This is a great topic since Warren apoligist Richard Abanes has been all over the internet openly critisisng those of us who have discernement and have discernment ministries.This also has bearing on the recent meeting Rick Warren and his team had with Bob Dewaay and Chris Rosebrough.
Here is a quote from John Bevere- keep in mind all this deception ties together.
Bevere on the subject of discernment ...
John Bevere : "I am so tired of criticalness being called discernment. Do you want to know true discernment? Paul said "That your love may abound in all discernment." When you are willing to die for somebody that is when you are actually discerning them. Jesus could call the Pharisees hypocrites and snakes because he went to the cross and died for them. So the next time you are quote "discerning" about somebody ask yourselves the question could you die for them? If you can`t say yes, you're critical because the love of God is to lay down your life for them, and discernment is rooted only in love. Got it?" (John Bevere, The Christian Channel Europe "The Messenger" 26/3/98)
It is true that Christians need to speak the truth in love among brothers in the Faith (Eph. 4:15). Conversely, and not taught by Bevere, Christians are also to mark, avoid and reject the divisive ones, heretics (Rom. 16:17, Tit. 3:10). Apparently Bevere wants to major on discernment among those who call themselves believers to the exclusion of rejecting heresy from the wolves in sheep's clothing. But what Bevere teaches that is false teaching is that it is wrong for Christians to be "critical". The Greek word from which we get the English word "critical" is kritikos. Strongs says it means discerner, relating to judging, fit for judging, skilled in judging. The Bible clearly teaches that Christians are to learn to discern.
KRITIKOS -- TO DISCERN
For the Word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge [kritikos] the thoughts and intentions of the heart (Hebrews 4:12). Cells called erythrocytes are stored in the red marrow of big bones, like the femur and the tibia. On the outside there is the bone and on the inside there is the marrow. But in between there is an area where, even with a microscope, it is very difficult to tell where the bone ends and where the marrow begins. The Bible says that the relationship between soul and spirit is like that. Take prophecy: Was that from someone's imagination, or was it God's Spirit speaking through their spirit? It is very difficult to tell the difference. Man is a three-dimensional being. You can separate a body from a soul; but you cannot easily tell where the soul ends and the spirit begins. When people say, "The Lord showed me this" and "God told me that," it is difficult to know if it is someone's imagination or God's Spirit speaking to their spirit. The mind is a good servant, but a dangerous master. Many people are caught up with things not overtly demonic, but they are prophesying from the futility of their own mind. We are called to kritikos -- to discern between the soulish and the spiritual. The Word of God enables us to separate the bone from the marrow, the spiritual from the purely soulish. (Jacob Prasch, Judge Not?, http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/judgenot.html)
Another word for discern in Greek is diakrisis. It means discerning, discern, disputation, a distinguishing, discerning, judging. This word is used in the context of commanding Christians to use critical discernment in the following passages:
1 Cor. 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning (diakrisis) of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.
Heb 5:14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern (diakrisis) both good and evil.
1 Cor. 12:10 is the same type of discernment that John speaks of in 1 John 4:1.
1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test (dokimazo) the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Dokimazo means prove, try, approve, discern, allow, like, test, examine, scrutinise (to see whether a thing is genuine or not), as metals, to recognise as genuine after examination, to approve, deem worthy. Dokimazo is used in these verses commanding Christians to use critical discernment.
Lu 12:56 Ye hypocrites, ye can discern (dokimazo) the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern (dokimazo) this time?
Lu 14:19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove (dokimazo) them: I pray thee have me excused.
Ro 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain (dokimazo) God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Ro 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove (dokimazo) what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
1Co 11:28 But let a man examine (dokimazo) himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove (dokimazo) your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Ga 6:4 But let every man prove (dokimazo) his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.
Eph 5:10 Proving (dokimazo) what is acceptable unto the Lord.
Php 1:10 That ye may approve (dokimazo) things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ;
1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try (dokimazo) the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Th 5:21 Prove (dokimazo) all things; hold fast that which is good.
I could go on and on with word studies having to do with discernment, testing,
Read the rest of the article here from my friend and brother in the Lord Sandy Simpson.
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/beverequotes.html
Peace and thanks Marie-Tim
posted by Tim Wirth | 2:22 AM
3 Comments:
Thanks so much, Tim! I'm going to forward this to my friend. I appreciate the effort you've put into this and will check out the Sandy Simpson article as well. Blessings~
"It is true that Christians need to speak the truth in love among brothers in the Faith (Eph. 4:15)."
My wife has cancer. Just imagine if her doctor would just love her and not tell her about the cancer. In the same way this blog "LOVES" enough to point out hard truths that ultimately lead to our good! Thanks so much Tim for being faithful to God's Word! Our best friends tell "us" the most truth!@
Ike
Thanks for the post. I know John Bevere and I have heard him say the quote you are talking about but it is in the context of people slamming people over style issues, not what you are talking about. John is a good guy and his marriage and his children are on point.
I do agree with your other observations though. We do need to discern and guard our hearts. But seriously, John is a good guy.
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