Two Different Camps And Spiritual Blindness
John 9:39-41
"39 And Jesus said, “For judgment I have come into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may be made blind.”
40 Then some of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these words, and said to Him, “Are we blind also?”
41 Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now you say, ‘We see.’ Therefore your sin remains.
First I want to start this article off with some comments from men who are much more learned that myself.
"Religious leaders are often amongst those who are spiritually blind. Many times Jesus accused the Pharisees of being “blind leaders of the blind” (Matthew 15:14; 23:24; 23:26 etc.). Thus being religious, a christian or even a christian leader does not provide immunity from this ailment. It is even possible that religious people are more prone to catching this than other people and the more spiritual we think we are, the more likely we are to catch it.
There are a few things that cause blindness. The first is pride. Remember that “All the ways of a man are pure in his own eyes” (Proverbs 16:2). After Saul had disobeyed the command of the Lord, he actually erected a statue to himself, and with the bleating of the cursed sheep in the background, greeted Samuel with the words: “I have performed the commandment of the LORD” (1Samuel 15:13). His arrogance had made him so blind that he really thought that wrong was right. Even after Samuel had clearly explained to Saul how he had disobeyed, he still did not get it. The story of the first king of Israel is a sad saga of a man who was so blinded by his arrogance that he never understood a single thing the prophet said to him. Even once David had been anointed in his place and clearly carried God’s blessing, Saul still thought he could hold onto the anointing by killing David. How terribly sad.
The antidote to blindness that comes through pride is obviously humility.
source Anton Bosch http://www.antonbosch.org/Articles/English%202008/spiritually%20blind.html
"So, the world is divided into two groups: those that are in darkness, the spiritually blind and those that have sight, the spiritually seeing. There are only two kinds of people. There's no half sight. There are no partially blind. You either see or you are totally blind. "
If a man won't recognize his blindness, Christ can't give him sight, is that right? And that was the Pharisees problem. They would not admit their blindness. Jesus says I came to give sight to those who know they need it and I came to those who think they see to let them know they're really blind and if need be to confirm them in their blindness.
When Jesus sees this man worshiping at His feet and He compares the humble confiding heart of that beggar with the hostility and stubborn hatred of the Pharisees, He admits that that's the way it's going to be when He comes. When I come, there's going to be judgment...slash, right down the middle, this group will believe and see, this group will be obstinate and will not see and will be confirmed in their blindness."
source John MacArthur http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/GC1527.HTM
So what does Phoenix Preacher, Sliced Laodecia (CRN.Info) and their buddy Richard Abanes all have in common?
Let me preface this first by stating that I do not think everyone who frequents either one of these blogs are spiritually blind. I do however think the leadership at both these blogs fit this category.
And I also want you no notice that this opposite camp would also state the same about myself and my brothers and sisters in the Lord.
I will leave it to you the reader to decide who is spiritially blind.
What prompted me to write this article was a comment that the leader of Phoenix Preacher left on my blog (a comment I have not posted until now) as well as a lot thats been going on this last year with people like Richard Abanes and the sites he frequents.
Here is Michael's comment's
"Two differences…
I allow dissenting viewpoints on my blog and I’m accountable for what I say.
Bud Press was allowed to voice his opinions, as ill thought out as they were.
The other major difference is that people actually read my blog."
This reply was on a article I wrote here-
http://nogoofyzone.wordpress.com/2008/06/30/oprah-winfrey-logic/
The biggest problem I have with members of the opposite camp is that there comments are very often not mature and do not even address the topic being discussed. If you have a dissenting view thats fine but explain why, and then explain your position. Dont just do a drive by comment. Whats the point thats not edyifying at all to the Body of Christ. If Im wrong, well ok , show me where Im wrong or in error with what scripture teaches.
Lets look at Michaels comments-
" I allow dissenting viewpoints on my blog'
To Michaels point I do as well if it adds to the discussion. I would also ask Michael in a act of fairness hold Abanes and his blog under the same scrutiny as you do me. I often do not let comments fly here because of several reasons.
1. The comment sometimes does not address the topic being spoke of. Look at the long strings of comments often made by 5-10 people on both Phoenix Preacher or CRN. Go down to about the middle of the comments and look at whats being stated. They can either be talking about hockey or some other bunny trail. Usually nothing to do with the post. It turns into a old ladies quilting bee gossip session often found in small towns. Whats the point of letting comment's like that go on? Im not letting that happen here. If you disagree with me thats ok I dont know everything. But say why you disagree and show scripture that backs up what you state. The bottom line with either camp is that nothing we say matters if it doesntjive with Gods word in scripture. The real scary thing is that many of these comments are made by men who state they are pastors. Michaels recent comments to me were made at around 5:30 am this morning. Michael looking at my site that early now that is weird.
I want to add that often these long strings that sites like Phoenix Preacher and CRN generate produce a lot of hits but reduce down to gossip, innuendo and ad hominem attack.
Michaels comments-
"I’m accountable for what I say"
My comments-Thats great what was the responce from those you are accountable to you telling my brother in the Lord Bud Press to "bleep off"?
The other camp also implies often that myself and my brothers and sisters in the Lord are not accountable to anyone.
I cant speak for everyone but I can state we do hold each other accountable. And as for me I attend a church on a regular basis and am accountable to a pastor who knows about and reads my blog. A pastor who I let know "If you ever see anything on my site that concerns you please let me know". My pastor does read my blog and has invited Ray Yungen author of "Time of Departing" to speak at our church at the end of this month.
Michaels comments-
"Bud Press was allowed to voice his opinions, as ill thought out as they were."
My comments-
Notice Michael does not extend grace to Bud Press by perhaps saying Bud Press was allowed to voice his opinion's, I however disagree with them (and then state why he disagree's with Buds opinions).
Instead Michael chooses to use a ad hominem attack. Something me and my brothers and sisters in the Lord are accused of all the time. Even though the choose of words very seldom are backed up with a statement and facts on why someone thinks we are using ad hominem.
And now to the facts behind Buds statement on Phoenix Preacher. Bud was just holding Richard Abanes accountable. Richard emailed Bud and asked Bud for more information on Ken Blanchard and Ken's new age connection. Richard wanted new information that took place after 2005. Bud provided the information which Richard Abanes has choosen not to act on.
Why were Buds comments thought of as opinions? They were not based on any opnions what so ever but factual information? And Bud responded with grace. Or did I miss something here?
Michaels recent comments-
"There is no such thing as an Arminianist, but that’s par for the course with you."
My comments- Michael does not state his position on why there is no such thing as a Arminianist just points out Im wrong and then adds ad hominem.
Simpson proves that he understands neither Arminianism or Calvinism as he mangles both systems badly.
My comments-does not explain where he thinks Sandy was in error. Just a drive by comment with no thought because Michael does not state his opposing position.
You really need to take some classes…"
My comments ad hominem and trying to be spiritually elite something I have had to deal with when I played in Word faith churches. Same spirit as Abanes has and its not the Holy Spirit. We are dealing with a spirit here folks. The camp I am in would state that the opposite camp is in spiritual blindness. The opposite camp would state the same thing about us. You decide who is biblically correct.
Michael has addressed the Todd Bentley issue over at his blog. Good for him.
Richard Abanes has remained silent about Todd Bentley and what he thinks about Todd and this false revival. C.Peter Wagner is connected to both Todd and Rick Warren. Plus it would alientatea target book buying audience. Perhaps thatswhy Richard remains silent about Ken Blanchard as well. Abanes deals mainly with what is outside of Christianity not deception from within. Again dealing with whats going on within would alienate ones target audience when you are selling a product.
Im amazed by folks who flock to Abanes and cant see through Richard and his spin.
Look at the Rick Warren, Robert Schuller connection.
In Richards booklet "Rick Warren and the Purpose that Drives Him". Richard had a golden opportunity to set the record straight about Warren and Schuller.
Missed it because he did not let Rick Warren speak for himself.
Richard asked Rick Warren this on page 29
RA: And (Robert) Schuller is your mentor!
RW: And Schuller is my mentor!
RA: Ok,wait. Is Robert Schuller your mentor?
RW: No! Never has been, never would be!
End of quote-
Wow thats it. A really big issue and in a personal interview with Rick Warren two small quotes dedicated to this hot topic. But wait Richard dedicates pages 99-106 explaining to his audience on how Rick thinks and feels about this issue. But yet we didnt hear this from Warren himself when he was given the opportunity to clear this up.
Looking at Warrens methods and the Warrens continued alliance with Schullers conferences any discerning Christian can see the real deal here.
This is just one instance in many where Richard Abanes tells us how Rick Warren thinks and feels.
You decide whats truth.
I am opposed to all Rick Warren does because his root is evil. He built his business(Saddleback and Purpose Driven religion) on the whims of what the unsaved wanted in a church. This is history by what Rick Warren did. This method is also diametrically opposed to what scripture teaches in building a church. Check the book of Acts on how a church is supposed to be built.
I want to state that I do not hate Rick Warren, Abanes or any of the folks at CRN or Phoenix preacher or anyone for that matter. Online is often a difficult media form to communicate your heart from because people cannot hear the tone of your voice or other nuances that make vocal communication a better way to communicate.
Now granted letting Richard Abanes comment on your blog almost guarantee's you a couple hundred hits to your blog (usually by about the same 10-15 people).
But is this all edifying to the Body of Christ?
I tell you what Christianity is a mess here in the states. And maybe a part of that problem is because many shepherds are spending more time online than they are with their flocks.
Ultimately you decide.
I will allow opposing views on this post if you so desire. Stay on topic though or your post will not see the light of day. If Im in error show me where and prove your point. I dont care how long your comments are as long as they stay on topic. Thats the rules you will need to abide by them.
Plus I work so if your post is not immediately on dont think I am censoring you, I just may not have read your comment yet. I will not allow comments that
I spend a very limited time online.
If you dont want to comment and take this to your own blogs thats fine of course.
I take your opposition and negative article's about me as a badge of honor.
Because we are from two different camps.
Peace
Tim
"39 And Jesus said, “For judgment I have come into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may be made blind.”
40 Then some of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these words, and said to Him, “Are we blind also?”
41 Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now you say, ‘We see.’ Therefore your sin remains.
First I want to start this article off with some comments from men who are much more learned that myself.
"Religious leaders are often amongst those who are spiritually blind. Many times Jesus accused the Pharisees of being “blind leaders of the blind” (Matthew 15:14; 23:24; 23:26 etc.). Thus being religious, a christian or even a christian leader does not provide immunity from this ailment. It is even possible that religious people are more prone to catching this than other people and the more spiritual we think we are, the more likely we are to catch it.
There are a few things that cause blindness. The first is pride. Remember that “All the ways of a man are pure in his own eyes” (Proverbs 16:2). After Saul had disobeyed the command of the Lord, he actually erected a statue to himself, and with the bleating of the cursed sheep in the background, greeted Samuel with the words: “I have performed the commandment of the LORD” (1Samuel 15:13). His arrogance had made him so blind that he really thought that wrong was right. Even after Samuel had clearly explained to Saul how he had disobeyed, he still did not get it. The story of the first king of Israel is a sad saga of a man who was so blinded by his arrogance that he never understood a single thing the prophet said to him. Even once David had been anointed in his place and clearly carried God’s blessing, Saul still thought he could hold onto the anointing by killing David. How terribly sad.
The antidote to blindness that comes through pride is obviously humility.
source Anton Bosch http://www.antonbosch.org/Articles/English%202008/spiritually%20blind.html
"So, the world is divided into two groups: those that are in darkness, the spiritually blind and those that have sight, the spiritually seeing. There are only two kinds of people. There's no half sight. There are no partially blind. You either see or you are totally blind. "
If a man won't recognize his blindness, Christ can't give him sight, is that right? And that was the Pharisees problem. They would not admit their blindness. Jesus says I came to give sight to those who know they need it and I came to those who think they see to let them know they're really blind and if need be to confirm them in their blindness.
When Jesus sees this man worshiping at His feet and He compares the humble confiding heart of that beggar with the hostility and stubborn hatred of the Pharisees, He admits that that's the way it's going to be when He comes. When I come, there's going to be judgment...slash, right down the middle, this group will believe and see, this group will be obstinate and will not see and will be confirmed in their blindness."
source John MacArthur http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/GC1527.HTM
So what does Phoenix Preacher, Sliced Laodecia (CRN.Info) and their buddy Richard Abanes all have in common?
Let me preface this first by stating that I do not think everyone who frequents either one of these blogs are spiritually blind. I do however think the leadership at both these blogs fit this category.
And I also want you no notice that this opposite camp would also state the same about myself and my brothers and sisters in the Lord.
I will leave it to you the reader to decide who is spiritially blind.
What prompted me to write this article was a comment that the leader of Phoenix Preacher left on my blog (a comment I have not posted until now) as well as a lot thats been going on this last year with people like Richard Abanes and the sites he frequents.
Here is Michael's comment's
"Two differences…
I allow dissenting viewpoints on my blog and I’m accountable for what I say.
Bud Press was allowed to voice his opinions, as ill thought out as they were.
The other major difference is that people actually read my blog."
This reply was on a article I wrote here-
http://nogoofyzone.wordpress.com/2008/06/30/oprah-winfrey-logic/
The biggest problem I have with members of the opposite camp is that there comments are very often not mature and do not even address the topic being discussed. If you have a dissenting view thats fine but explain why, and then explain your position. Dont just do a drive by comment. Whats the point thats not edyifying at all to the Body of Christ. If Im wrong, well ok , show me where Im wrong or in error with what scripture teaches.
Lets look at Michaels comments-
" I allow dissenting viewpoints on my blog'
To Michaels point I do as well if it adds to the discussion. I would also ask Michael in a act of fairness hold Abanes and his blog under the same scrutiny as you do me. I often do not let comments fly here because of several reasons.
1. The comment sometimes does not address the topic being spoke of. Look at the long strings of comments often made by 5-10 people on both Phoenix Preacher or CRN. Go down to about the middle of the comments and look at whats being stated. They can either be talking about hockey or some other bunny trail. Usually nothing to do with the post. It turns into a old ladies quilting bee gossip session often found in small towns. Whats the point of letting comment's like that go on? Im not letting that happen here. If you disagree with me thats ok I dont know everything. But say why you disagree and show scripture that backs up what you state. The bottom line with either camp is that nothing we say matters if it doesntjive with Gods word in scripture. The real scary thing is that many of these comments are made by men who state they are pastors. Michaels recent comments to me were made at around 5:30 am this morning. Michael looking at my site that early now that is weird.
I want to add that often these long strings that sites like Phoenix Preacher and CRN generate produce a lot of hits but reduce down to gossip, innuendo and ad hominem attack.
Michaels comments-
"I’m accountable for what I say"
My comments-Thats great what was the responce from those you are accountable to you telling my brother in the Lord Bud Press to "bleep off"?
The other camp also implies often that myself and my brothers and sisters in the Lord are not accountable to anyone.
I cant speak for everyone but I can state we do hold each other accountable. And as for me I attend a church on a regular basis and am accountable to a pastor who knows about and reads my blog. A pastor who I let know "If you ever see anything on my site that concerns you please let me know". My pastor does read my blog and has invited Ray Yungen author of "Time of Departing" to speak at our church at the end of this month.
Michaels comments-
"Bud Press was allowed to voice his opinions, as ill thought out as they were."
My comments-
Notice Michael does not extend grace to Bud Press by perhaps saying Bud Press was allowed to voice his opinion's, I however disagree with them (and then state why he disagree's with Buds opinions).
Instead Michael chooses to use a ad hominem attack. Something me and my brothers and sisters in the Lord are accused of all the time. Even though the choose of words very seldom are backed up with a statement and facts on why someone thinks we are using ad hominem.
And now to the facts behind Buds statement on Phoenix Preacher. Bud was just holding Richard Abanes accountable. Richard emailed Bud and asked Bud for more information on Ken Blanchard and Ken's new age connection. Richard wanted new information that took place after 2005. Bud provided the information which Richard Abanes has choosen not to act on.
Why were Buds comments thought of as opinions? They were not based on any opnions what so ever but factual information? And Bud responded with grace. Or did I miss something here?
Michaels recent comments-
"There is no such thing as an Arminianist, but that’s par for the course with you."
My comments- Michael does not state his position on why there is no such thing as a Arminianist just points out Im wrong and then adds ad hominem.
Simpson proves that he understands neither Arminianism or Calvinism as he mangles both systems badly.
My comments-does not explain where he thinks Sandy was in error. Just a drive by comment with no thought because Michael does not state his opposing position.
You really need to take some classes…"
My comments ad hominem and trying to be spiritually elite something I have had to deal with when I played in Word faith churches. Same spirit as Abanes has and its not the Holy Spirit. We are dealing with a spirit here folks. The camp I am in would state that the opposite camp is in spiritual blindness. The opposite camp would state the same thing about us. You decide who is biblically correct.
Michael has addressed the Todd Bentley issue over at his blog. Good for him.
Richard Abanes has remained silent about Todd Bentley and what he thinks about Todd and this false revival. C.Peter Wagner is connected to both Todd and Rick Warren. Plus it would alientatea target book buying audience. Perhaps thatswhy Richard remains silent about Ken Blanchard as well. Abanes deals mainly with what is outside of Christianity not deception from within. Again dealing with whats going on within would alienate ones target audience when you are selling a product.
Im amazed by folks who flock to Abanes and cant see through Richard and his spin.
Look at the Rick Warren, Robert Schuller connection.
In Richards booklet "Rick Warren and the Purpose that Drives Him". Richard had a golden opportunity to set the record straight about Warren and Schuller.
Missed it because he did not let Rick Warren speak for himself.
Richard asked Rick Warren this on page 29
RA: And (Robert) Schuller is your mentor!
RW: And Schuller is my mentor!
RA: Ok,wait. Is Robert Schuller your mentor?
RW: No! Never has been, never would be!
End of quote-
Wow thats it. A really big issue and in a personal interview with Rick Warren two small quotes dedicated to this hot topic. But wait Richard dedicates pages 99-106 explaining to his audience on how Rick thinks and feels about this issue. But yet we didnt hear this from Warren himself when he was given the opportunity to clear this up.
Looking at Warrens methods and the Warrens continued alliance with Schullers conferences any discerning Christian can see the real deal here.
This is just one instance in many where Richard Abanes tells us how Rick Warren thinks and feels.
You decide whats truth.
I am opposed to all Rick Warren does because his root is evil. He built his business(Saddleback and Purpose Driven religion) on the whims of what the unsaved wanted in a church. This is history by what Rick Warren did. This method is also diametrically opposed to what scripture teaches in building a church. Check the book of Acts on how a church is supposed to be built.
I want to state that I do not hate Rick Warren, Abanes or any of the folks at CRN or Phoenix preacher or anyone for that matter. Online is often a difficult media form to communicate your heart from because people cannot hear the tone of your voice or other nuances that make vocal communication a better way to communicate.
Now granted letting Richard Abanes comment on your blog almost guarantee's you a couple hundred hits to your blog (usually by about the same 10-15 people).
But is this all edifying to the Body of Christ?
I tell you what Christianity is a mess here in the states. And maybe a part of that problem is because many shepherds are spending more time online than they are with their flocks.
Ultimately you decide.
I will allow opposing views on this post if you so desire. Stay on topic though or your post will not see the light of day. If Im in error show me where and prove your point. I dont care how long your comments are as long as they stay on topic. Thats the rules you will need to abide by them.
Plus I work so if your post is not immediately on dont think I am censoring you, I just may not have read your comment yet. I will not allow comments that
I spend a very limited time online.
If you dont want to comment and take this to your own blogs thats fine of course.
I take your opposition and negative article's about me as a badge of honor.
Because we are from two different camps.
Peace
Tim
posted by Tim Wirth | 7:58 PM
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