my rebuttle to Rick Warrens email to Saddleback
My rebuttal to Rick Warrens email to his followers
I wanted to weigh in on Slick Ricks letter as well.Sandy Simpson did a fine job and I want to bring up some other points and I want to answer Ricks letter with what others state about him and all what Rick states. As well as some comments of my own.
From: "Pastor Rick" Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 12:53:56 -0800Subject: MESSAGE THIS WEEKEND!Dear Saddleback Family,Happy Thanksgiving.
This weekend I'll announce the new giving commitments that are joining the rest of us in "EXTENDING THE VISION; For the Next Generation" PLUSI'll be sharing a very personal message on "Living By Your Convictions."When Kay and I announced the launching of the P.E.A.C.E. plan a few years ago, we both knew we could expect severe opposition coming from different angles. The P.E.A.C.E. plan empowers churches to do the 5 things Jesus did, and Jesus warned us, "People will do to you exactly what they did to me. They will do it because you belong to me, and they don't know the one who sent me." John 15:21 (CEV) Millions of Christians throughout history and around the world right now know that persecution is real.We are in a spiritual battle for the lives of billions, so we expect opposition. The Bible tells us that "Satan is the accuser of the brethren." Unfortunately, sometimes Christians do Satan's job for him. They accuse and criticize other believers. I'm sure that makes Satan smile.The Bible says it is foolish to spout off about issues before knowing the facts, but the Internet has made it very easy to do. God says, "He who answers before listening--that is his folly and his shame." Prov. 18:13 (NIV) God also says, "Fools have no interest in understanding; they only want to air their own opinions." Prov. 18:2 (NLT)
my comments-
Notice how Rick uses 3 different Bible translations in only the first couple paragraphs. Rick uses different translations often in order to state and back his own purpose. Not God's Word. If you have read Purpose Driven Life or the eye opening expose's on it. You know that Rick Warren will proof text just as well as the latest Word Faith preacher in order to bend scripture to his will. God made in the image of Rick instead of the other way around.
Recently, 4 "bloggers" made accusations about my visit to Syria (between speaking in Germany and Rwanda). They based their accusations on a Syrian state press release! Of course, they had no idea what my motivation was, what I actually did and said, and the confidential results. But they attacked me anyway. Not a single newspaper carried the story, but several websites repeated the gossip without talking to me to get the facts. Most sites were already critical of The Purpose Driven Church and Life, and were just happy to have something else to attack.Before going to Syria (as a pastor, not a politician) I called Franklin Graham who is very experienced in dealing with the Middle East and asked him what I should say. He said "Thank the government for protecting the freedom of churches from radical Muslims." The Christian leaders I met with in Syria said the exact same thing. This does not excuse other government actions that we've all read about. But my visit was not political, but to encourage the Christian leaders there, and to get permission from the government to do the PEACE plan in Syria, which we were given!
My comments
Joe Farah and others called this one out. I believe Ricks visit was both political and personnal. To fulfill Ricks P.E.A.C.E plans. But for Rick to ever state he is not political is just a laugh.
Another blogger claimed I've invited Barack Obama to preach in my pulpit to the Saddleback congregation. Of course that is untrue. I'd never invite ANY politician to speak from the pulpit to our congregation. Never. The blogger got his facts wrong but he told everyone to call our church office and complain. Many of these people were quite rude and vicious to our receptionists this past week.
My comments
Got to follow with Sandy as well on this "I'd never invite ANY politician to speak from the pulpit to our congregation." Maybe they remove Ricks personnal pulpit for the other speakers. Not sure why Rick would say this. Notice Rick states he would never invite ANY politician to speak-Read on.
Next week, the Global Summit on AIDS and the Church will be held on the Saddleback campus. It is not a church service, but an international summit for pastors and world leaders. Leaders from churches, denominations, health, NGOs, Christian organizations, governments, businesses, and entertainment will meet together to discuss how they can work with churches to end AIDS. Participants will hear messages from Laura Bush, Sen. Bill Frist, Sen. Sam Brownback, Bill Gates, Bono, the doctor who discovered AIDS transmission heterosexually, Franklin Graham, the President of World Vision, the President of World Relief, the President of Compassion, and about 30 other speakers who are concerned about AIDS. Sen. Obama is one speaker at a conference which includes Republicans and Democrats, Christians and non-Christians, pastors, business leaders, and all kinds of races from around the world. Yet the vitriol and unChristlike slander was over the top.
my comments
And then Slick Rick invites politicians to speak at Saddleback. Im sure there has got to another email going out telling his congregation not to come (so Rick doesnt contradict himself)And hey Rick does this also mean that you will need to pull out the alternative pulpit for your speakers?Oh but of course you state this is not a church service.From what Ive seen of Saddleback Im not sure you understand what a church service is.No wait . Of course you dont know what a church service is because you built Saddleback services around what the unsaved wanted instead of what the Bible teaches.
This weekend I am teaching a message called "Living By Your Convictions" where I'll explain the 6 Biblical convictions that are the framework for all we do at Saddleback. This message will be released on pastors.com for free on Monday.Of course, you friends know my heart, my motivation, and my 26 year track record. What matters to me is not pleasure...possessions...prestige...politics...power.. or popularity. I couldn't care less about these things. I care about bringing people to Jesus, and I will do whatever it takes to "Reach One More For Jesus" as my father's dying words instructed me. No criticism will ever stop me from doing that.
My comments
Warren only mentions Jesus when it suits Warrens purpose-not preach the gospel in and out of season. Look at this comment made from The Jewish Journel of Greater Los Angeles and its editor in chief Rob Eshman."The other secret to his success is his passion for God and Jesus. Warren managed to speak for the entire evening without once mentioning Jesus a testament to his savvy message-tailoring.
Rob you cant have a passion for God and Jesus and not once mention Jesus.
That only shows Rick has a passion for keeping his network intact.
The same goes for Ricks article in the Ladies Home Journel. Its not Jesus- lite its Jesus missing from the message.Power or popularity dont matter to you?What. I read many pew forum articles with so much bragging and name dropping it made me sick.Look at how Rick speaks here.How he spoke to Joe Farah.Prestige, popularity,politics does matter to you Rick.
Warrens statements constantly contradict themselves.
A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
Like Paul, God has called me as a missionary to non-believing cultures, and he has opened doors in amazing ways to share the Gospel behind lines that pastors don't normally get invited to. Paul was willing to go anywhere and talk to anyone about Jesus. So was Billy Graham. So am I. I'd go into hell if I could bring some people out with me.
Again another contradiction to fool the folks at Saddleback. Read Ricks article's, watch Rick on TV he seldom mentions Jesus if at all.
And PS Rick sorry bub your nothing like Paul. Paul preached the gospel with boldness. You only preach a gospel that fits the crowd your playing to.
No matter where I've been invited to speak- to Congress, to the Davos World Economic Forum, at Harvard and Oxford and Cambridge, to the United Nations. to the Foreign Affairs Council, from Rabbis at the University of Judaism to Muslim leaders in the Middle East, from Urban Gays to Rural Cowboys - my message is unchanged:
I will agree with that Ricks message is unchanged.Its all based on selling Rick Warren and his agenda. It has nothing to do with Jesus, The Bible or anything scriptural. Thats all just mixed in to make it taste Christian.Ricks message is counterfit.
We all need Jesus! Left or Right is irrelevant to me. I'm not a politician. I am a pastor, and my calling is to go "to ALL nations and ALL people " with the saving knowledge of Jesus.
My comments
Again Rick may know what the saving knowledge of Jesus is. But he only preaches it to fulfill Ricks purpose.Head Knowledge.Because Rick has formed a new religion that preaches another jesus and another gospel.I believe the Good News with all my heart and I want everyone to have the opportunity to respond to it - not just those who come inside the doors of churches.Im not sure what Good News Rick is talking about unless it is his royalty checks. Its certainly not the Good News of Jesus Christ.
I hope you'll join us this weekend, and I hope you'll email the message to others when we post it for free on Monday. I love you all! We're going to have a fantastic Christmas season together!
My comments
Great another Rick Warren sermon for free that pastors can use instead of having the Holy Spirit lead them into all truth.Its about time preachers stopped using the internet to mimic other sermons and get back down on their knees and seek the Holy Spirits wisdom.The Holy Spirits wisdom is different than Ricks since Rick relies on his own wisdom.His fruit shows that.
Pastor Rick
and that enough said about that.Titus 1:13"This witness is true Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith."To the followers of Rick Warren I beg you to heed this scripture about Rick.Titus 3:10-11 "A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject;Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemed of himself."Hold what Rick teaches and how he started Saddleback up to the light of scripture.They are two opposing factors.
Peace and Blessings
Tim
I wanted to weigh in on Slick Ricks letter as well.Sandy Simpson did a fine job and I want to bring up some other points and I want to answer Ricks letter with what others state about him and all what Rick states. As well as some comments of my own.
From: "Pastor Rick" Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 12:53:56 -0800Subject: MESSAGE THIS WEEKEND!Dear Saddleback Family,Happy Thanksgiving.
This weekend I'll announce the new giving commitments that are joining the rest of us in "EXTENDING THE VISION; For the Next Generation" PLUSI'll be sharing a very personal message on "Living By Your Convictions."When Kay and I announced the launching of the P.E.A.C.E. plan a few years ago, we both knew we could expect severe opposition coming from different angles. The P.E.A.C.E. plan empowers churches to do the 5 things Jesus did, and Jesus warned us, "People will do to you exactly what they did to me. They will do it because you belong to me, and they don't know the one who sent me." John 15:21 (CEV) Millions of Christians throughout history and around the world right now know that persecution is real.We are in a spiritual battle for the lives of billions, so we expect opposition. The Bible tells us that "Satan is the accuser of the brethren." Unfortunately, sometimes Christians do Satan's job for him. They accuse and criticize other believers. I'm sure that makes Satan smile.The Bible says it is foolish to spout off about issues before knowing the facts, but the Internet has made it very easy to do. God says, "He who answers before listening--that is his folly and his shame." Prov. 18:13 (NIV) God also says, "Fools have no interest in understanding; they only want to air their own opinions." Prov. 18:2 (NLT)
my comments-
Notice how Rick uses 3 different Bible translations in only the first couple paragraphs. Rick uses different translations often in order to state and back his own purpose. Not God's Word. If you have read Purpose Driven Life or the eye opening expose's on it. You know that Rick Warren will proof text just as well as the latest Word Faith preacher in order to bend scripture to his will. God made in the image of Rick instead of the other way around.
Recently, 4 "bloggers" made accusations about my visit to Syria (between speaking in Germany and Rwanda). They based their accusations on a Syrian state press release! Of course, they had no idea what my motivation was, what I actually did and said, and the confidential results. But they attacked me anyway. Not a single newspaper carried the story, but several websites repeated the gossip without talking to me to get the facts. Most sites were already critical of The Purpose Driven Church and Life, and were just happy to have something else to attack.Before going to Syria (as a pastor, not a politician) I called Franklin Graham who is very experienced in dealing with the Middle East and asked him what I should say. He said "Thank the government for protecting the freedom of churches from radical Muslims." The Christian leaders I met with in Syria said the exact same thing. This does not excuse other government actions that we've all read about. But my visit was not political, but to encourage the Christian leaders there, and to get permission from the government to do the PEACE plan in Syria, which we were given!
My comments
Joe Farah and others called this one out. I believe Ricks visit was both political and personnal. To fulfill Ricks P.E.A.C.E plans. But for Rick to ever state he is not political is just a laugh.
Another blogger claimed I've invited Barack Obama to preach in my pulpit to the Saddleback congregation. Of course that is untrue. I'd never invite ANY politician to speak from the pulpit to our congregation. Never. The blogger got his facts wrong but he told everyone to call our church office and complain. Many of these people were quite rude and vicious to our receptionists this past week.
My comments
Got to follow with Sandy as well on this "I'd never invite ANY politician to speak from the pulpit to our congregation." Maybe they remove Ricks personnal pulpit for the other speakers. Not sure why Rick would say this. Notice Rick states he would never invite ANY politician to speak-Read on.
Next week, the Global Summit on AIDS and the Church will be held on the Saddleback campus. It is not a church service, but an international summit for pastors and world leaders. Leaders from churches, denominations, health, NGOs, Christian organizations, governments, businesses, and entertainment will meet together to discuss how they can work with churches to end AIDS. Participants will hear messages from Laura Bush, Sen. Bill Frist, Sen. Sam Brownback, Bill Gates, Bono, the doctor who discovered AIDS transmission heterosexually, Franklin Graham, the President of World Vision, the President of World Relief, the President of Compassion, and about 30 other speakers who are concerned about AIDS. Sen. Obama is one speaker at a conference which includes Republicans and Democrats, Christians and non-Christians, pastors, business leaders, and all kinds of races from around the world. Yet the vitriol and unChristlike slander was over the top.
my comments
And then Slick Rick invites politicians to speak at Saddleback. Im sure there has got to another email going out telling his congregation not to come (so Rick doesnt contradict himself)And hey Rick does this also mean that you will need to pull out the alternative pulpit for your speakers?Oh but of course you state this is not a church service.From what Ive seen of Saddleback Im not sure you understand what a church service is.No wait . Of course you dont know what a church service is because you built Saddleback services around what the unsaved wanted instead of what the Bible teaches.
This weekend I am teaching a message called "Living By Your Convictions" where I'll explain the 6 Biblical convictions that are the framework for all we do at Saddleback. This message will be released on pastors.com for free on Monday.Of course, you friends know my heart, my motivation, and my 26 year track record. What matters to me is not pleasure...possessions...prestige...politics...power.. or popularity. I couldn't care less about these things. I care about bringing people to Jesus, and I will do whatever it takes to "Reach One More For Jesus" as my father's dying words instructed me. No criticism will ever stop me from doing that.
My comments
Warren only mentions Jesus when it suits Warrens purpose-not preach the gospel in and out of season. Look at this comment made from The Jewish Journel of Greater Los Angeles and its editor in chief Rob Eshman."The other secret to his success is his passion for God and Jesus. Warren managed to speak for the entire evening without once mentioning Jesus a testament to his savvy message-tailoring.
Rob you cant have a passion for God and Jesus and not once mention Jesus.
That only shows Rick has a passion for keeping his network intact.
The same goes for Ricks article in the Ladies Home Journel. Its not Jesus- lite its Jesus missing from the message.Power or popularity dont matter to you?What. I read many pew forum articles with so much bragging and name dropping it made me sick.Look at how Rick speaks here.How he spoke to Joe Farah.Prestige, popularity,politics does matter to you Rick.
Warrens statements constantly contradict themselves.
A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
Like Paul, God has called me as a missionary to non-believing cultures, and he has opened doors in amazing ways to share the Gospel behind lines that pastors don't normally get invited to. Paul was willing to go anywhere and talk to anyone about Jesus. So was Billy Graham. So am I. I'd go into hell if I could bring some people out with me.
Again another contradiction to fool the folks at Saddleback. Read Ricks article's, watch Rick on TV he seldom mentions Jesus if at all.
And PS Rick sorry bub your nothing like Paul. Paul preached the gospel with boldness. You only preach a gospel that fits the crowd your playing to.
No matter where I've been invited to speak- to Congress, to the Davos World Economic Forum, at Harvard and Oxford and Cambridge, to the United Nations. to the Foreign Affairs Council, from Rabbis at the University of Judaism to Muslim leaders in the Middle East, from Urban Gays to Rural Cowboys - my message is unchanged:
I will agree with that Ricks message is unchanged.Its all based on selling Rick Warren and his agenda. It has nothing to do with Jesus, The Bible or anything scriptural. Thats all just mixed in to make it taste Christian.Ricks message is counterfit.
We all need Jesus! Left or Right is irrelevant to me. I'm not a politician. I am a pastor, and my calling is to go "to ALL nations and ALL people " with the saving knowledge of Jesus.
My comments
Again Rick may know what the saving knowledge of Jesus is. But he only preaches it to fulfill Ricks purpose.Head Knowledge.Because Rick has formed a new religion that preaches another jesus and another gospel.I believe the Good News with all my heart and I want everyone to have the opportunity to respond to it - not just those who come inside the doors of churches.Im not sure what Good News Rick is talking about unless it is his royalty checks. Its certainly not the Good News of Jesus Christ.
I hope you'll join us this weekend, and I hope you'll email the message to others when we post it for free on Monday. I love you all! We're going to have a fantastic Christmas season together!
My comments
Great another Rick Warren sermon for free that pastors can use instead of having the Holy Spirit lead them into all truth.Its about time preachers stopped using the internet to mimic other sermons and get back down on their knees and seek the Holy Spirits wisdom.The Holy Spirits wisdom is different than Ricks since Rick relies on his own wisdom.His fruit shows that.
Pastor Rick
and that enough said about that.Titus 1:13"This witness is true Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith."To the followers of Rick Warren I beg you to heed this scripture about Rick.Titus 3:10-11 "A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject;Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemed of himself."Hold what Rick teaches and how he started Saddleback up to the light of scripture.They are two opposing factors.
Peace and Blessings
Tim
posted by Tim Wirth | 4:50 PM
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