The No Goofy Zone Discernment Ministry

The No Goofy Zone is a discernment ministry for saved born again Christians and all who are seeking the truth.We expose non-biblical trends in the church. We are making material available to advance understanding of issue's which endanger Christianity. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit.

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Location: Piqua, Ohio, United States

Former drummer for Gary Lewis and The Playboys and The Coasters. Tim has also played with Paul Baloche, Lincoln Brewster, Darlene Zscech and Hillsongs, Jeff Fenholt, SteveCamp among others. Tim founded The Simply Agape Project in 2001 to get free Christian music to the troops. Recordings have been made with Tim, and friends Alex Acuna, Abe Laboriel SR, Justo Almario,Steve Camp , Jared Ming and some wonderful Independant Christian artists.The Somebody Brave CD also features words of encouragment to the soldiers from Pastors, Moms, Dads, and Lt Col Brian Birdwell a Pentegon 9/11 survivor Tim is married to Donna Wirth and has four children Alan 25,Steven 23, Brittany 22, Bethany 21. Tim has played in numerous churchs as well as shows on TBN. Tim has also performed on JCTV on the show Generation Worship featuring worship leader Jared Ming. Tim has a book published worldwide titled "Pass The Plate And Let Us Prey" (My Search For Black and White Christianity in a Gray Nation)

Saturday, September 08, 2012

Why People Hate Those Who Expose False Teaching

Many of you know that Im a member of a group called Concerned Nazarenes. Now I am not an official Nazarene but used to attend a Nazarene church because I admire and believe the belief and focus on holiness. The Nazarene denomination as a whole though is fleeing from everything thats holy in my opinion. There was a Facebook letter launched against our group and I feel a need to address it. Some others of our group have tried to respond with a defense but of course their comments were immediately taken off. The scriptural and actual truth is always going to be deleted when a good solid defense is made so I decided to address this in this article. I do acknowledge a persons right to delete anything on ones personal page.  I will allow comments on this post Here was the guys rant.....


An Open Letter to Members of Concerned Nazarenes:

If you are part of that "group", you may want to stop reading now and unfriend me. It will save you some anguish. But someone needs to speak truth to you. Since you BLOCK your FB page and only allow those that support your cause to post there, and since I can't message you, I'm forced to break my own rule and use my page to express my thoughts without first engaging you privately (though I'm sure it would be of little use).

I have followed your comments, rants, ravings, posts, and visual media since you debuted your DVD around our General Assembly in 2009. I have read what you write on blogs, posts, comments, Twitter, Facebook, NazNet, and NCNNews among other outlets. I believe I have formed an accurate and honest perspective on your cause. 

You aren't Concerned, you're angry. You aren't Nazarene, you're judgmental. 

In short - you are THUGS.

I watched today as you "whole-earth scorched" some friends of mine and fellow Nazarene pastors, Gabriel & Jeanette Vargas Salguero, on the NCNNews Message Board. You have attacked good and Godly women and men in the Church of the Nazarene, such as Dan Boone, Thomas Jay Oord, Doug Hardy, Mark Maddix, Kevin Ulmet, Loren Gresham, Jon Middendorf, Jesse C Middendorf, Karl Giberson, Dan Bohi, Diane Cunningham Leclerc, among others. In doing so, you don't enter into constructive dialogue, you choose personal and vile attacks. It's un-Godly behavior; it's un-Biblical; and it's time someone stood up and told you so. That's where I come in.

Feel free to google me (you won't find much), listen to my conversations (all on-line and in iTunes), read my FB page (it's public), follow me on Twitter (again, public), and in general add me to your list of those that deserve your bitter hyperbole. I'll gladly take it if it means I'm in the likes of those YOU currently call "enemies of the church". These General & District Superintendents, faculty and college presidents, chaplains and officers in our military, student leaders on our Nazarene campuses, and pastors and parsonage families, have done nothing TO YOU, yet you feel the need to RISE up against them. Shame on you. Shame on your cause.

If you've read this far, I'm sure you want to UNFRIEND me. No problem. In fact, if you are friends with me AND part of the FB Concerned Nazarene group, I'll likely UNFRIEND you. It's not that I don't value my FB friends who have differing opinions than me, or that I don't learn from them (just read my recent political posts) - but they truly are interested in TRUTH. You are interested in getting your own way. I don't need you in my life.

I'll pray for you. I'll fast for you. I'll care what you do with your life, and how God will respond to you on judgment day (though if I were you I wouldn't hold out hope for mercy). But I won't waste time trying to understand you. We are at opposite ends of the humanity spectrum.

I wish you the best in life...HONESTLY, I do!

Grace & Peace -- Bruce Barnard, a HOPEFUL NAZARENE!

PS - this is a NOTE, not a post...it's sharable if you so choose...

Here is my response on why we do what we do according to scripture admonition... (Grace and Peace lol why is that guys like this and guys like Dennis Bratcher use catch phrases like this and do not offer grace or peace?) Here is also a comment left by a pastor? "Thank you for what you wrote and standing up to what Dan Boone described as Nazarene Taliban." Funny how liberal's and those who disagree with us chant Grace and Peace and tolerance. But yet again they do not  practice what they preach what hypocrites.
Dan Boone comparing us to the Taliban very nice Dan your true colors and Christlike attitude really shine through that comment.
 The typical slam with no scriptural context where we are wrong and zero specifics. And than of course it ends with wishing us well. The big fear and Im not raising any praise to us God gets the glory here is that false teachers profess
ing false gospels like Dan Bohi have been exposed and our DVD did a lot to fill people in on the scriptural truth on the false teaching the leaders mentioned were bringing in. They like to play that down but if we were not making a difference (and you can view that as positive or negative) they would remain silent about us. Anyone who exposes false teaching is always portrayed as a villain. They did it with Paul and the apsotles who exposed false teachers and they do it now. Again zero scripture used or mentioned. Par for the course. Of course they call us un Christlike sound doctrine always divides."Matthew 10:34. "Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.
35 "For I have come to 'set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law';
36 "and 'a man's enemies will be those of his own household.'" We have seen this happen the scripture also mentions 2 Tim 4:3 states"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;" Most of the leaders mentioned fall under this. There were some I dont know and have not seen articles on. The guy comes off as very self righteous sounds like the guy (but not the same Naz Netguy)who came in to protect Jon Middendorf at GA with crazy accusations like we were showing up to hurt Jon physically which was crazy talk and someone just making up lies. What we do is done within the confines and admonition of scripture. This guy in his rant proves himself he cannot rightly divide the Word of God.



Where the guy gets it wrong in his entire tirade is that we are not attacking these people personally. Manny how many times in both our articles do we labor to say are not attacking the people but the false teaching they are promoting. One 
of Dan Bohi's own fans referred to him in an article like this and I quote" "I stated this earlier but Dan is an odd man. He resembles an unmade bed and he is a towering man. I am 6’4” and #$#Q pounds and Dan makes me feel like Twiggy! (Yes, I am dating myself!!). I do not believe he has any formal training in theology or Biblical studies yet, people respond to his message? "end quote.

 Can you imagine me saying this about Dan commenting on how he looks and his size? Man the tar and feathers would come out. But yet these disparaging remarks come from one of Dans fans so I guess its ok since he is a friend. I believe guys like Jon Middendorf Dan Bohi and others mentioned seem like decent guys. I think Dan's family pictures and those with his wife look very nice they are a really handsome couple together. So Dan's a big guy, so what. Im concerned with the false gospel and false teaching Dan is promoting not how Dan looks. Jon Middendorf seems to be a really great guy. We even invited him to be on the Concerned Nazarenes DVD. We were willing to foot the bill for Jon and his entire family expenses free to come to Coeur De Alene and be a part of the DVD and put his side of the story on the dvd. We would have did this unedited. But of course you don't hear the truth about our story just a lot of rhetoric and making us into creeps and meanies. Im tempted to post a defense on the guys page but I know they are reading this one so I wont bother. Hearing Naz NetterDave Petigrew rant is laughable as well. 

2 Peter 2:1-3 is at the heart of why we do what we do"1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. 2 And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; 3 and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep."



Peter writes in the second and third chapters of his epistle about the unseen danger of false teachers who arise within the church. Such teachers are often unrecognized, especially in their earliest forms, partly because they profess to sha
re a “like precious faith.” Yet, they secretly introduce false teaching, teachings which are destructive to themselves and to all who follow them Second, Peter teaches us to expect false teachers to arise. Although the need for prophets has ceased, the need for teachers of the Scriptures continues. Among those who teach, we should expect some to be false teachers. They hold a Bible in their hands and tell us they are teaching the Scriptures, but their teaching is false. Their interpretation has not come from the Holy Spirit but from their own will (see 1:20-21). False teachers are no mere possibility; they are likely, and we must be watchful so we are not led astray by them. Our knowledge of Old Testament history should prepare us to be on guard against false teachers, for they will surely arise.

Third, Peter teaches us to expect false teachers to arise from within the church as well as from without. In Old Testament times, false prophets arose “among the people” (verse 1). So also in our time, false teachers will arise “among us” (literally “among you,” verse 1). It is easy to identify false teachers in other religions or in liberal or apostate churches. It is relatively easy to expect false teachers to arise from without. But Peter tells us they will also arise from within the community of believers, from within our own church. This same warning comes from Paul in the Book of Acts where he admonishes the elders of the Ephesian church:

28 “Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. 31 Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears. 32 And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build [you] up and to give [you] the inheritance among all those who are sanctified” (Acts 20:28-32, emphasis mine).

 The teaching of these false teachers is destructive to the teachers and to all who follow their teaching and practice. Peter calls the teaching of the false teachers “destructive heresies,” which will “bring swift destruction upon themselves” (verse 1). Their judgment is not “idle” nor is it “asleep” (verse 3).

 False teachers bring reproach upon true saints and the church of our Lord Jesus Christ. Because of these impostors, “the way of truth will be maligned,” Peter says. We suffer from the presence of false teachers. “How?” you might ask. We suffer because these false teachers seek to gain status and recognition by identifying themselves as true saints and associating with true believers. In 1 Peter, we were instructed that unbelievers can be expected to react against the righteousness of the saints because they are threatened by it (1 Peter 4:1-4). We are to expect to be maligned for doing what is right (1 Peter 2:12, 15, 20). When the sin of false teachers is exposed, the unrighteous may almost delight in lumping all professing Christians together so that we are wrongly associated with the folly of fraudulent saints.

David Koresh is but one example of how this can happen. Koresh was not orthodox. One could hardly call him Christian (whether he or his followers did or not). While the evangelical community looked upon Koresh and his followers as a cult, the secular press has not been so discerning. Those who like to use the excuse, “The church is full of hypocrites,” see little difference between Koresh and his followers and mainstream evangelicalism. They leap at the opportunity to find a reason to ridicule us and reject our faith.

Sixth, these false teachers are not always readily apparent. False teachers certainly do not represent themselves as those who make a false profession of faith. They rise up as those who are one with us in Christ. As Jesus warned, they come as “wolves in sheep’s clothing” (Matthew 7:15). They carry out their ministry in Jesus’ name, and they are just as surprised at being called unbelievers as we are when we realize they do not share a “like precious faith” with us:

15 “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn [bushes,] nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit; but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So then, you will know them by their fruits. 21 Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS’“ (Matthew 7:15-23).

Our Lord’s words here indicate that we dare not attempt to distinguish false teachers from the true merely on the basis of their ability to perform mighty works. A true prophet need not perform great works. Such was John the Baptist, a prophet without mighty works but with mighty words (John 10:41). If a prophet declares that something will happen, and it does not, then he is a false prophet (see Deuteronomy 18:20-22). But the ability to perform great works does not prove one to be a prophet. His doctrine must also conform to the Word of God (Deuteronomy 13:1-5). Jesus teaches that the “fruit” which distinguishes false teachers from the true is not just their mighty deeds. We must also take careful note of the fruit of their own character and that of their followers.



When false teachers “arise,” their heresies are “secretly introduced” (verse 1). They “creep in unnoticed” (Jude 4). These false teachers are devious and deceptive, not wishing to be known for what they are. In some cases, they do not even 
recognize their own condition. They not only deceive, they are themselves deceived (2 Timothy 3:13; see 2 Peter 2:13). They rely on slick methods rather than on the Spirit of God and appeal to the lusts of the flesh (compare 1 Corinthians 2; 2 Corinthians 2:17; 4:1-2).
false teachers can be recognized by their message. False teachers deny the truth and deal in error. The “way of truth” is maligned, and their words are false (verses 2 and 3). Their doctrines are heresies which are “destructive,” while the truth leads to “life and godliness” (1:3). They claim to teach the Word of God, but they actually twist and distort the Scriptures so their interpretations justify their lifestyle and their lusts (see 3:16).
Both Peter and Jude inform us as to how far these false teachers will go:
1 … even denying the Master who bought them (2 Peter 2:1).
4 … ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ (Jude 4).
Jude says they pervert grace, twisting it so that it becomes a pretext for sin. Peter might say that rather than seeing grace as an escape from our former lusts (1 Peter 1:14; 2:11; 2 Peter 1:4), it is an excuse for our former lusts.
The ultimate and most abominable error is that these teachers go as far as to “deny the Master who bought them.” I believe Peter’s words have their origin in the language of the Old Testament in reference to the exodus of the Israelites from Egypt. Jude also ties the “purchase” of these false teachers to the redemption of Israel from slavery in Egypt:



So thats why we do what we do. Many others like Eric Barger, Marsha West, Matt Slick and many others are doing the same thing. God is separating sheep from goats. Where do you want to be standing when our Lord comes back?

After Manny Silva commented on this guys FB page here was his response.

"Thank for your comments - it wasn't written to solicit anything or ask you to join...2nd, this isn't a debate post...it's a note, from me, and expresses MY thoughts/reflections...3rd, since it's not a debate post, I've been deleting posts that are meant to debate the "good" of the CN group...if you want to dialogue with me in private message, my FB page is open...feel free to send those notes along." end quote

The responses about the good of the CN group was not meant as debate but just a chance to shed some light on the good our group does. Of course this guy would rather here the praises of some of the false teachers we expose rather than the truth or (shudder) anything this group has done that is good. Of course this guy and many of those responding on his page thinks that exposing heresy and false teaching is wrong and bad. Scripture-God's Word teaches us otherwise.


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3 Comments:

Blogger Holly G. said...

After reading Dan Boone's comment, I am thankful I can most likely safely avoid anyone he calls good...

Keep obeying His Word, and ignore those who do not abide in it. Cut off the opportunity of these deceitful workers!

But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it!

But what I do, I will also continue to do, that I may cut off the opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the things of which they boast.
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.
2 Cor 11:3-4,12-15

5:47 PM  
Blogger P Sue said...

Tim, I'm sorry to post on your blog, but that is the only way to contact you. I tried on FB, but your security settings are so tight that I couldn't. I thought about responding to your FB message, but I deleted it. This is the only way...
We attended Steadfast Harvest for approx 3 years. I completely understand your stance against "goofiness." We left that church wounded, confused, and running...However the Lord can use anything for His good. The warrior spirit that was so much a part of that church taught me to stand up and fight for what is right and for my beliefs. Spiritually, I had to grow up quickly or be trampled. The second good is that I learned that He is not a far away God, but very personal and communicative. Despite all the goofiness, hurt and ungodliness the Lord still allowed some good to come from it. Just wanted to share. Signed a like-wounded sister

10:04 AM  
Blogger Tim Wirth said...

Not a problem. I Feel the same way about Steadfast. I was drummer for the worship team there sharing duties with the Associate pastor who drummed as well(forgot the brother's name).I loved playing with Bobbie and the gang thought a lot of good things happened there as well. Much of what went on there was the basis of my book "Pa$$ The Plate And Let Us Prey" which you can still get on Amazon and many other places. I think Jim and Jennifer just got got caught up in the cult of personality and the TBN thing. Doesn't mean I didn't love them both had many great talks with Jim away from the platform he was a whole different person. And it doesn't mean Im totally anti-charismatic either. But I learned what the gifts are not. So many people goof on tongues I think this is why the Nazarene denomination avoids the chaos. I know the gift is not used the way scripture teaches in these churches. Thanks for your comments. I left the conversation because it was going in circles. My email is nogoofyzone@hotmail.com if you want to carry on the conversation. Blessings Tim

10:53 AM  

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