A must see video. You need to take the time to watch this.

Probably the best resource I have ever watched. It focus's on Rick Warren but ties everything together. Seeker sensitive, mega Church, Emergent Church, New Apostolic Reformation everything. Its 2 hours you really need to watch this.

Con men and women,false teachers fill the Body of Christ with their lies and false teaching Part One

The groups I am part of as well as many emails I get as well as others who are leaders in these groups often ask where to find a good church because they left their last church because of heresy and false teaching. Thats a really good question. And if you turn on the television and radio these days you can plainly see that heresy and false teaching fill the pulpits today. I would say a fair guess is that out of the most popular book sales and popular television shows 98% of them preach and promote heresy.
This article is not going to be about finding a good church. In this rapid falling away from Christianity I would hesitate to suggest a church because you could not be sure that what they would be teaching in a month would be solid biblically based Christianity.
Most people would agree with the fact that we are probably in the endtimes that would soon bring the return of Christ.
Before that happens a antichrist (a person) will show up proclaiming he is Jesus himself.
How do I know this?
Scripture teaches that. 

2 Thessalonians 2:3-17

New King James Version (NKJV)

³ Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin^[a]is revealed, the son of perdition, ⁴ who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God^[b] in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
⁵ Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? ⁶ And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. ⁷ For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He^[c] who now restrains will do so until He^[d] is taken out of the way. ⁸ And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. ⁹ The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,¹⁰ and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. ¹¹ And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, ¹² that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

It has come to the time in history where unsaved men and women who  proclaim to be Christian are filling the pulpits and deceiving many.

In Matt 24:24 it states-

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; so that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Dave Hunt and TA MaMahon of the Berean Call makes these comments

 Dave:

You mean, could a believer be a false prophet?  False Christ?  No.  I don’t think so.  I think…

           Tom:

Or could they be deceived by false prophets?

           Dave:

I think a true believer could be deceived.  But, what I think it means is, and as this writer indicates, not permanently.  In other words, you might deceive a person for a moment, but I believe that if they stick with the Word and follow the leading of the Holy Spirit, they are not going to be deceived for long.  It says, “so much that if it were possible even the elect would be deceived.”  Therefore, I don’t think it is possible, ultimately, to deceive the elect. 

           Tom:

Dave, we’ve been talking about the deception and delusion for months now just going through your book Beyond Seduction.  And, there’s so much more that’s happened since then, that seems to indicate that people have been drawn off to these false teachings and false ideas.  Maybe not false Christs, per se, but certainly anti-biblical or issues that are contrary to the Word of God.

           Dave:

Well, Jesus makes it very serious here.  And, as you know, He mentions this three times. And, this is in response to the question from the disciples, “what will be the sign of your coming and of these things?”  You know, the destruction of the temple and of the end of the world.  I think He’s talking about the nearness of His return and the very first thing, it has a list of a number of things, wars, rumors of wars, earthquakes, pestilence, famine, etc., ethnic group rising against ethnic group, which certainly is true today.  But, they come later.  The very first thing He says is, “before, or take heed, that no one deceive you.”  And, then three times He repeats it about false Christs and false prophets, warning that this is going to happen.  And, I think that we live in that day.  No doubt about it.  And, He warns, in Matthew 7, well He says, “many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name?  In your name we cast out devils.  In your name we did miracles.”  He says, “I will say, I never knew you.”  So, they were never Christians.  And, yet, apparently they passed for Christian leaders who were seemingly doing signs and wonders.  And, you know that’s big emphasis today.  Signs and wonders.  And, then Paul uses the same language in II Timothy 3:8.  He says, “As Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.”  So, he is warning us again, and in fact he begins that chapter, chapter three, “in the last days dangerous times shall come,” and it talks about loving ourselves, etc.  So, I think that this is a very serious warning from the Lord.  We have to heed it.  And, are there false prophets out there?  Definitely there are.  And I think in relation to this, Acts 20, where Paul tells the elders at Ephesus, “that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.”  So, Paul took this so seriously that he’s warning them, he is weeping.  I often say to people, not often, but when I’m on the subject, I say, “look, some people accuse me of being a fanatic, just pounding away on error, warning about error, warning about apostasy, I haven’t even begun to be concerned compared with Paul.”  He wept and warned day and night for three solid years. 

           Tom:

Dave, there was no Christian television, no Christian radio, no Christian media, and the reason I’m bringing that up is because we’re inundated by all these false ideas through these different media.  Yet, Paul, you know, he wasn’t dealing with any of those.

           Dave:

But, he was very serious and very concerned, and perhaps then my level of concern ought to rise.  The level of concern of people out there ought to rise.  He writes to the Corinthians, you know, that he’s concerned, lest as Satan deceived Eve they should be led astray and embrace another Jesus instead of the real Jesus.  Tom, it’s happening in the church, and I think we should be concerned.  We need to pray about it and we need to stand against the error and stand for truth and rescue as many as we can.end comment

So how can we tell if its God speaking to us?

The only real way is to search what is being said with God's word.

Thats hard to do in an ever-growing world that teaches the Bible is full of error.

What parts do we believe are true?

Only those that deal with salvation?

Well for one scripture teaches that it is true.

For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty (2 Peter 1:16).

1. THE BIBLE IS AN INERRANT BOOK.
If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came; and the Scripture cannot be broken (John 10:35).
What does Jesus mean when He says that the Scripture cannot be broken? It is a reference to its continuing truth. There will never come a time when we say, "Ooops, the Bible really said the wrong thing when it came to that passage." Notice that He says this with reference to what could have been considered a problem passage to the Jews (Psalm 82:6). The point is that even such problem passages show no cracks in the trustworthiness of the Bible, but rather are only indicative of our own lack of understanding.



But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14 He shall glorify Me; for He shall take of Mine, and shall disclose it to you. (John 16:13-14).
With these words, Jesus promises that He would send the Holy Spirit who would direct the apostles in the communicating of God's new covenant teaching.

Hopefully I do not need to convince you that Gods Word is true and without error. If I need to do that please don't read any further.
And even when I write something you need to check it against God's Word. If what I write does not agree with God's Word I would encourage you to be a good Berean and reject it. But check it against Gods Word to your own intuition or something you think God is speaking in your ear since God no longer speaks to us today outside of scripture.

This sets the article up.
So can we tell if its an unsaved person preaching to us or just a conman or woman?
I would say its not difficult to tell if a person is saved or unsaved.
Scripture teaches that



Matthew 7:15-16

New King James Version (NKJV)

You Will Know Them by Their Fruits

¹⁵ “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. ¹⁶ You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
Many claim and attribute demonic activity to the work of the Holy Spirit. They did this with Brownsville, Pensacola and Toronto supposed blessings. 
This is the unpardonable sin against the Holy Spirit as noted in scripture in
Matt. 12:22-32 says, "Then there was brought to Him a demon-possessed man who was blind and dumb, and He healed him, so that the dumb man spoke and saw. ²³And all the multitudes were amazed, and began to say, "This man cannot be the Son of David, can he?" ²⁴But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, "This man casts out demons only by Beelzebub the ruler of the demons." ²⁵And knowing their thoughts He said to them, "Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself shall not stand. ²⁶"And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then shall his kingdom stand? ²⁷"And if I by Beelzebub cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? Consequently they shall be your judges. ²⁸"But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. ²⁹"Or how can anyone enter the strong man's house and carry off his property, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house. ³⁰"He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters. ³¹"Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.³²"And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come,"
If you attribute the works of satan to that of the Holy Spirit you are treading on very bad ground to say the least.



No. A believer cannot commit the unforgivable sin. How can someone who has been born again (John 3:7), made a new creation (2 Cor. 5:17), and received eternal life (John 10:27-28) actually commit the unforgivable sin? He cannot. Jesus Himself said that we have eternal life, not conditional life: "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand" (John 10:27-28). Besides, it says in 2 Cor. 5:17 that the Christian is a new creation in Christ. We are different, no longer slaves to the old nature (Rom. 6:14). We are regenerated by the Holy Spirit.

There is no biblical support for a believer committing this sin. It just hasn't happened. Also, if you are worried that you may have committed the sin and can't be forgiven, then don't be concerned. If you are worrying about it, then you haven't committed it. If you are worried about it, then that is a sign that you have not committed it. If you had, you wouldn't be concerned.
If a man or woman preaches a false gospel you would think that they themselves believe what they preach.
If they believe in their own false gospel they are not saved.
So in the next article we will see what the true gospel is and what some of the false gospels are today as well as do the spiritual gifts of tongues and prophecy as well as words of wisdom and knowledge still exist today/
People claim to that God is still speaking to them today and they know the difference.
Really?
How can you be 100% sure it is God speaking in your ear.
We will explore all this in the next article.

Why People Hate Those Who Expose False Teaching

Many of you know that Im a member of a group called Concerned Nazarenes. Now I am not an official Nazarene but used to attend a Nazarene church because I admire and believe the belief and focus on holiness. The Nazarene denomination as a whole though is fleeing from everything thats holy in my opinion. There was a Facebook letter launched against our group and I feel a need to address it. Some others of our group have tried to respond with a defense but of course their comments were immediately taken off. The scriptural and actual truth is always going to be deleted when a good solid defense is made so I decided to address this in this article. I do acknowledge a persons right to delete anything on ones personal page.  I will allow comments on this post Here was the guys rant.....

An Open Letter to Members of Concerned Nazarenes:

If you are part of that "group", you may want to stop reading now and unfriend me. It will save you some anguish. But someone needs to speak truth to you. Since you BLOCK your FB page and only allow those that support your cause to post there, and since I can't message you, I'm forced to break my own rule and use my page to express my thoughts without first engaging you privately (though I'm sure it would be of little use).

I have followed your comments, rants, ravings, posts, and visual media since you debuted your DVD around our General Assembly in 2009. I have read what you write on blogs, posts, comments, Twitter, Facebook, NazNet, and NCNNews among other outlets. I believe I have formed an accurate and honest perspective on your cause. 

You aren't Concerned, you're angry. You aren't Nazarene, you're judgmental. 

In short - you are THUGS.

I watched today as you "whole-earth scorched" some friends of mine and fellow Nazarene pastors, Gabriel & Jeanette Vargas Salguero, on the NCNNews Message Board. You have attacked good and Godly women and men in the Church of the Nazarene, such as Dan Boone, Thomas Jay Oord, Doug Hardy, Mark Maddix, Kevin Ulmet, Loren Gresham, Jon Middendorf, Jesse C Middendorf, Karl Giberson, Dan Bohi, Diane Cunningham Leclerc, among others. In doing so, you don't enter into constructive dialogue, you choose personal and vile attacks. It's un-Godly behavior; it's un-Biblical; and it's time someone stood up and told you so. That's where I come in.

Feel free to google me (you won't find much), listen to my conversations (all on-line and in iTunes), read my FB page (it's public), follow me on Twitter (again, public), and in general add me to your list of those that deserve your bitter hyperbole. I'll gladly take it if it means I'm in the likes of those YOU currently call "enemies of the church". These General & District Superintendents, faculty and college presidents, chaplains and officers in our military, student leaders on our Nazarene campuses, and pastors and parsonage families, have done nothing TO YOU, yet you feel the need to RISE up against them. Shame on you. Shame on your cause.

If you've read this far, I'm sure you want to UNFRIEND me. No problem. In fact, if you are friends with me AND part of the FB Concerned Nazarene group, I'll likely UNFRIEND you. It's not that I don't value my FB friends who have differing opinions than me, or that I don't learn from them (just read my recent political posts) - but they truly are interested in TRUTH. You are interested in getting your own way. I don't need you in my life.

I'll pray for you. I'll fast for you. I'll care what you do with your life, and how God will respond to you on judgment day (though if I were you I wouldn't hold out hope for mercy). But I won't waste time trying to understand you. We are at opposite ends of the humanity spectrum.

I wish you the best in life...HONESTLY, I do!

Grace & Peace -- Bruce Barnard, a HOPEFUL NAZARENE!

PS - this is a NOTE, not a post...it's sharable if you so choose...

Here is my response on why we do what we do according to scripture admonition... (Grace and Peace lol why is that guys like this and guys like Dennis Bratcher use catch phrases like this and do not offer grace or peace?) Here is also a comment left by a pastor? "Thank you for what you wrote and standing up to what Dan Boone described as Nazarene Taliban." Funny how liberal's and those who disagree with us chant Grace and Peace and tolerance. But yet again they do not  practice what they preach what hypocrites.
Dan Boone comparing us to the Taliban very nice Dan your true colors and Christlike attitude really shine through that comment.

 The typical slam with no scriptural context where we are wrong and zero specifics. And than of course it ends with wishing us well. The big fear and Im not raising any praise to us God gets the glory here is that false teachers profess

ing false gospels like Dan Bohi have been exposed and our DVD did a lot to fill people in on the scriptural truth on the false teaching the leaders mentioned were bringing in. They like to play that down but if we were not making a difference (and you can view that as positive or negative) they would remain silent about us. Anyone who exposes false teaching is always portrayed as a villain. They did it with Paul and the apsotles who exposed false teachers and they do it now. Again zero scripture used or mentioned. Par for the course. Of course they call us un Christlike sound doctrine always divides."Matthew 10:34. "Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.
35 "For I have come to 'set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law';
36 "and 'a man's enemies will be those of his own household.'" We have seen this happen the scripture also mentions 2 Tim 4:3 states"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;" Most of the leaders mentioned fall under this. There were some I dont know and have not seen articles on. The guy comes off as very self righteous sounds like the guy (but not the same Naz Netguy)who came in to protect Jon Middendorf at GA with crazy accusations like we were showing up to hurt Jon physically which was crazy talk and someone just making up lies. What we do is done within the confines and admonition of scripture. This guy in his rant proves himself he cannot rightly divide the Word of God.

Where the guy gets it wrong in his entire tirade is that we are not attacking these people personally. Manny how many times in both our articles do we labor to say are not attacking the people but the false teaching they are promoting. One 

of Dan Bohi's own fans referred to him in an article like this and I quote" "I stated this earlier but Dan is an odd man. He resembles an unmade bed and he is a towering man. I am 6’4” and #$#Q pounds and Dan makes me feel like Twiggy! (Yes, I am dating myself!!). I do not believe he has any formal training in theology or Biblical studies yet, people respond to his message? "end quote.

 Can you imagine me saying this about Dan commenting on how he looks and his size? Man the tar and feathers would come out. But yet these disparaging remarks come from one of Dans fans so I guess its ok since he is a friend. I believe guys like Jon Middendorf Dan Bohi and others mentioned seem like decent guys. I think Dan's family pictures and those with his wife look very nice they are a really handsome couple together. So Dan's a big guy, so what. Im concerned with the false gospel and false teaching Dan is promoting not how Dan looks. Jon Middendorf seems to be a really great guy. We even invited him to be on the Concerned Nazarenes DVD. We were willing to foot the bill for Jon and his entire family expenses free to come to Coeur De Alene and be a part of the DVD and put his side of the story on the dvd. We would have did this unedited. But of course you don't hear the truth about our story just a lot of rhetoric and making us into creeps and meanies. Im tempted to post a defense on the guys page but I know they are reading this one so I wont bother. Hearing Naz NetterDave Petigrew rant is laughable as well. 

2 Peter 2:1-3 is at the heart of why we do what we do"1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. 2 And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; 3 and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep."

Peter writes in the second and third chapters of his epistle about the unseen danger of false teachers who arise within the church. Such teachers are often unrecognized, especially in their earliest forms, partly because they profess to sha

re a “like precious faith.” Yet, they secretly introduce false teaching, teachings which are destructive to themselves and to all who follow them Second, Peter teaches us to expect false teachers to arise. Although the need for prophets has ceased, the need for teachers of the Scriptures continues. Among those who teach, we should expect some to be false teachers. They hold a Bible in their hands and tell us they are teaching the Scriptures, but their teaching is false. Their interpretation has not come from the Holy Spirit but from their own will (see 1:20-21). False teachers are no mere possibility; they are likely, and we must be watchful so we are not led astray by them. Our knowledge of Old Testament history should prepare us to be on guard against false teachers, for they will surely arise.

Third, Peter teaches us to expect false teachers to arise from within the church as well as from without. In Old Testament times, false prophets arose “among the people” (verse 1). So also in our time, false teachers will arise “among us” (literally “among you,” verse 1). It is easy to identify false teachers in other religions or in liberal or apostate churches. It is relatively easy to expect false teachers to arise from without. But Peter tells us they will also arise from within the community of believers, from within our own church. This same warning comes from Paul in the Book of Acts where he admonishes the elders of the Ephesian church:

28 “Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. 31 Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears. 32 And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build [you] up and to give [you] the inheritance among all those who are sanctified” (Acts 20:28-32, emphasis mine).

 The teaching of these false teachers is destructive to the teachers and to all who follow their teaching and practice. Peter calls the teaching of the false teachers “destructive heresies,” which will “bring swift destruction upon themselves” (verse 1). Their judgment is not “idle” nor is it “asleep” (verse 3).

 False teachers bring reproach upon true saints and the church of our Lord Jesus Christ. Because of these impostors, “the way of truth will be maligned,” Peter says. We suffer from the presence of false teachers. “How?” you might ask. We suffer because these false teachers seek to gain status and recognition by identifying themselves as true saints and associating with true believers. In 1 Peter, we were instructed that unbelievers can be expected to react against the righteousness of the saints because they are threatened by it (1 Peter 4:1-4). We are to expect to be maligned for doing what is right (1 Peter 2:12, 15, 20). When the sin of false teachers is exposed, the unrighteous may almost delight in lumping all professing Christians together so that we are wrongly associated with the folly of fraudulent saints.

David Koresh is but one example of how this can happen. Koresh was not orthodox. One could hardly call him Christian (whether he or his followers did or not). While the evangelical community looked upon Koresh and his followers as a cult, the secular press has not been so discerning. Those who like to use the excuse, “The church is full of hypocrites,” see little difference between Koresh and his followers and mainstream evangelicalism. They leap at the opportunity to find a reason to ridicule us and reject our faith.

Sixth, these false teachers are not always readily apparent. False teachers certainly do not represent themselves as those who make a false profession of faith. They rise up as those who are one with us in Christ. As Jesus warned, they come as “wolves in sheep’s clothing” (Matthew 7:15). They carry out their ministry in Jesus’ name, and they are just as surprised at being called unbelievers as we are when we realize they do not share a “like precious faith” with us:

15 “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn [bushes,] nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit; but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So then, you will know them by their fruits. 21 Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS’“ (Matthew 7:15-23).

Our Lord’s words here indicate that we dare not attempt to distinguish false teachers from the true merely on the basis of their ability to perform mighty works. A true prophet need not perform great works. Such was John the Baptist, a prophet without mighty works but with mighty words (John 10:41). If a prophet declares that something will happen, and it does not, then he is a false prophet (see Deuteronomy 18:20-22). But the ability to perform great works does not prove one to be a prophet. His doctrine must also conform to the Word of God (Deuteronomy 13:1-5). Jesus teaches that the “fruit” which distinguishes false teachers from the true is not just their mighty deeds. We must also take careful note of the fruit of their own character and that of their followers.

When false teachers “arise,” their heresies are “secretly introduced” (verse 1). They “creep in unnoticed” (Jude 4). These false teachers are devious and deceptive, not wishing to be known for what they are. In some cases, they do not even 

recognize their own condition. They not only deceive, they are themselves deceived (2 Timothy 3:13; see 2 Peter 2:13). They rely on slick methods rather than on the Spirit of God and appeal to the lusts of the flesh (compare 1 Corinthians 2; 2 Corinthians 2:17; 4:1-2).
false teachers can be recognized by their message. False teachers deny the truth and deal in error. The “way of truth” is maligned, and their words are false (verses 2 and 3). Their doctrines are heresies which are “destructive,” while the truth leads to “life and godliness” (1:3). They claim to teach the Word of God, but they actually twist and distort the Scriptures so their interpretations justify their lifestyle and their lusts (see 3:16).
Both Peter and Jude inform us as to how far these false teachers will go:
1 … even denying the Master who bought them (2 Peter 2:1).
4 … ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ (Jude 4).
Jude says they pervert grace, twisting it so that it becomes a pretext for sin. Peter might say that rather than seeing grace as an escape from our former lusts (1 Peter 1:14; 2:11; 2 Peter 1:4), it is an excuse for our former lusts.
The ultimate and most abominable error is that these teachers go as far as to “deny the Master who bought them.” I believe Peter’s words have their origin in the language of the Old Testament in reference to the exodus of the Israelites from Egypt. Jude also ties the “purchase” of these false teachers to the redemption of Israel from slavery in Egypt:

So thats why we do what we do. Many others like Eric Barger, Marsha West, Matt Slick and many others are doing the same thing. God is separating sheep from goats. Where do you want to be standing when our Lord comes back?

After Manny Silva commented on this guys FB page here was his response.

"Thank for your comments - it wasn't written to solicit anything or ask you to join...2nd, this isn't a debate post...it's a note, from me, and expresses MY thoughts/reflections...3rd, since it's not a debate post, I've been deleting posts that are meant to debate the "good" of the CN group...if you want to dialogue with me in private message, my FB page is open...feel free to send those notes along." end quote

The responses about the good of the CN group was not meant as debate but just a chance to shed some light on the good our group does. Of course this guy would rather here the praises of some of the false teachers we expose rather than the truth or (shudder) anything this group has done that is good. Of course this guy and many of those responding on his page thinks that exposing heresy and false teaching is wrong and bad. Scripture-God's Word teaches us otherwise.

The Un Official Court Jester of Naz Net

(Naz Net is a forum for the Nazarene Church-in my opinion it is a breeding ground and a defense for heresy within not just the Nazarene Church but the Christian faith and the Body of Christ).

Bob Hunter "Bob wroteon April 18, 2009 at 8:41am
I guess that means I traded the car in. I was feeling like it was broke down and I couldn't be a part of fixing it. To take the analogy further, I know that some are equipped to fix it and should stay behind the wheel...or under the hood. I wanted to stress that not everyone should trade the old beater in like I did, the COTN needs people who can do repair and restore work. I just didn't feel like I was to be one of them.  " End quote

Yesterday I was sent a link to Naz Net and I just have to comment on it. The comment was made by the official court jester of Naz Net Bob Hunter. When we released the Concerned Nazarene DVD Bob had a lot to say about it. His videos (which have now since been pulled from U Tube) were so poorly done with no real argument presented against the dvd. Just kinda stuff like he says so. Little to no scripture was presented as an argument against the dvd.I actually used Bobs videos side by side with ours not only because of the poor quality but because of the poor quantity. Bob was actually one of the poster boys on why we did the DVD in the first place. What is even more compelling is at last glance Bob does not even attend a Nazarene church something he constantly used against some of us who attended then left. Also Bob was once a Nazarene pastor at Springwater Church of the Nazarene he no longer pastors but at last look attends a Fourquare Church. Anyway this is what that fun a minute guy had to say on Naz Net my comments will follow "Yes, the Concerned Nazarenes are trying to Jesus juke the entire denomination. What is Jesus juking? The Urban Dictionary defines it this way: When some Christian brings Jesus or the Bible into an argument or conversation from out of no where. Usually creating another religious argument within the original argument or conversation. 

The Concerned Nazarenes have endless demands and arguments. They are not interested in reform at all, they just want to argue over issues that have already been resolved and historically established in our tradition (e.g. The Bible and innerrancy). This is is why I call it denominational Jesus juking. They are trying to juke us into to focusing on something other than our mission which is to make Christ-like disciples. 

As members of the Church of the Nazarene we should stand together against Jesus Juking. We should not allow our beloved denomination to be juked into adopting reformed positions that have no historical precedent. We should not acquiesce to the demands of irresponsible bloggers that attack our leaders and call for denominational boycotts. Rogue groups (full of Jesus Juke-iness) that are intent on revising our history, mission and theology will be met with a firm, but loving response. 

As ONE family of worldwide Nazarenes, we should stand steadfastly against denominational Jesus Juking. We are FOR making Christ-like disciples. We support the elected leaders in the Church of the Nazarene and we love our Universities. 

If the Concerned Nazarenes can't go along with that, then show them the door. " end of quote My comments: Im not here to defend the DVD because it made such a dent people cant help but talk about it. Naz Net actually helped bring attention to the DVD which which result in us having to order another 10 thousand DVDs which we now have completely ran out of. The Concerned Nazarenes as a group have helped reform and educate people to the heresy that has enveloped the Nazarene denomination. Bobs comments seem to come from someone who really does not understand Nazarene history. You have folks like Dan Bohi who are bringing in false teaching rejected personally by Phineas Breeze in his comments on Azuza street.http://www.azusastreet.org/AzusaStreetBresee.htm Bob at last look attends a church that embraces Azuza streets movement. Bob and his wife were removed from this fellowship because they were so carnal and actually dirty comments (in my evaluation). Bob and other often degrade those who are fundamental in their Christian beliefs. All being fundamental means is that we believe in the fundamental's of the Christian faith. The core beliefs that make Christianity what it is. In other words sound doctrine which many at Naz Net do not have a grasp on. Doctrine is THE MOST important thing!

Doctrine is simply what you believe.

"What comes into our minds when we think about God is the most important thing about us." - A.W. Tozer, The Knowledge of the Holy, 7.

If what you believe differs from what the Word of God says, you are in error in your doctrine. There is no person alive today who does not hold to doctrines. They may pretend to be free of doctrine and just "feeling" their way around the world, but they hold to doctrines just as tightly as you and I do. They just don't realized how much they have been deceived by the enemy, by others, and by allowing themselves to be deceived.

THE FIVE BASIC DOCTRINES

1. The Trinity: God is one "What" and three "Whos" with each "Who" possessing all the attributes of Deity and personality.

2. The Person of Jesus Christ: Jesus is 100% God and 100% man for all eternity.

3. The Second Coming: Jesus Christ is coming bodily to earth to rule and judge.

4. Salvation: It is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

5. The Scripture: It is entirely inerrant and sufficient for all Christian life.

The major religions of the world all deny all of these major doctrines. The cults deny one or more, usually more than one and especially the dual nature of Christ. The wolves who pretend to be Christians today involved in the Third Wave, New Wave, New Age counterfeit revival pretend to believe these doctrines but don't let them fool you. By what they teach they also deny one or more of these doctrines, and in fact I have more than one article that proves that many of them deny them ALL by what they teach. These are the most slick and dangerous pretenders of all.

But we also understand about the endtimes and doctrine 2 Timothy 4:3-4 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
To further expand on those who believe in the fundamentals of the faith. The term "fundamentalism" was first coined in 1920 by a Baptist periodical, the Watchman-Examiner, and has its origins in a series of twelve booklets entitled "The Fundamentals: A Testimony to Truth," underwritten by oil magnates Milton and Lyman Stewart and authored by a variety of 64 Evangelical preachers and scholars. Three million copies were circulated free of charge to U.S. clergymen between 1910-1915, the preface of which reads: "In 1909 God moved two Christian laymen to set aside a large sum of money for issuing twelve volumes that would set forth the fundamentals of the Christian faith, and which were to be sent free of charge to ministers of the gospel, missionaries, Sunday school superintendents, and others engaged in aggressive Christian work throughout the English speaking world." The basic movement was in response to the onset of liberal theology and intended as a revival in the fundamentals of scriptual truth. Adherents to "The Fundamentals" became known as Fundamentalists -- those who interpret biblical scripture literally and strive to live without compromise to its doctrines. Core fundamentalist tenets include:
The original manuscripts which comprise the Bible were divinely inspired down to each word.
The Bible is infallible.
The Bible is decisive in all issues of controversy that it directly addresses. Of the issues which it seems to remain silent on, man should not speculate.
The only things which are certain about God are what may be found in the Bible.
God exists in three persons -- the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Jesus was God incarnate.
Jesus was born of a virgin.
Christ died on the cross as a substitutionary death for the sins of all mankind.
Christ rose bodily from the dead and ascended to heaven.
Christ will return again to Earth to reign for a thousand years.
Eternal salvation comes when the individual asks God for forgiveness and invites Jesus into their heart.
Scriptual living should not be compromised by worldly influences.
Salvation is by faith alone, and not of good In other words sound doctrine is what many at Naz Net do not have a grasp on. 10 minutes at Naz Net and you can see this in action. They are not alone at fault here. As the scriptures state in the endtimes many fall away from sound doctrine. We can see that because of the huge infiltration of false teaching in the church. As for guys like Bob Hunter who are tossed around by the waves of culture and false doctrine.listen to what he has to say at your own peril. Jesus juking? At his desire for attention Bob desires to sound clever but comes out once again as the unoffical court jester of Naz Net (update-Bob emailed and let us know he now attends a Nazarene church again)