The No Goofy Zone Discernment Ministry

The No Goofy Zone is a discernment ministry for saved born again Christians and all who are seeking the truth.We expose non-biblical trends in the church. We are making material available to advance understanding of issue's which endanger Christianity. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit.

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Location: Piqua, Ohio, United States

Former drummer for Gary Lewis and The Playboys and The Coasters. Tim has also played with Paul Baloche, Lincoln Brewster, Darlene Zscech and Hillsongs, Jeff Fenholt, SteveCamp among others. Tim founded The Simply Agape Project in 2001 to get free Christian music to the troops. Recordings have been made with Tim, and friends Alex Acuna, Abe Laboriel SR, Justo Almario,Steve Camp , Jared Ming and some wonderful Independant Christian artists.The Somebody Brave CD also features words of encouragment to the soldiers from Pastors, Moms, Dads, and Lt Col Brian Birdwell a Pentegon 9/11 survivor Tim is married to Donna Wirth and has four children Alan 25,Steven 23, Brittany 22, Bethany 21. Tim has played in numerous churchs as well as shows on TBN. Tim has also performed on JCTV on the show Generation Worship featuring worship leader Jared Ming. Tim has a book published worldwide titled "Pass The Plate And Let Us Prey" (My Search For Black and White Christianity in a Gray Nation)

Sunday, August 27, 2006

A Course in Miracles Dictated by a Familiar Spirit

A Course in Miracles (New Age Movement) has filtered into many Christian churches. It was given to Helen Schucman by way of "a voice" that over the course of seven years spoke to her and dictated the contents to her. A self-avowed athiest at the time she claims that the inspiration for this work was from Jesus Christ. It should also be pointed out that she had a love/hate relationship with Jesus throughout her entire life yet we are to believe that it was Jesus who wrote this book?

What she heard was "another Jesus (2 Corinthians 11:4)" not the One of the Bible. In actuality what she heard was a voice of a familiar spirit because she later attributed later inspirations through this channeled voice. Initially this woman had dreams, visions, and psychic experiences that were calmed by her friend William Thetford. The twosome were in agreement in their scientific work but at odds with one another at most other times.

In October 1965 this voice began speaking A Course in Miracles to Schucman despite her disbelief in either God or Jesus Christ. What was it that she heard?
"When they say to you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards, that peep and mutter, should not a people seek unto their God? Should they seek the dead on behalf of the living?"- Isaiah 8:19.

The peeps are those sounds mimicked by the dead and the muttering is heard from the shades of hades. My Jesus, the One eternal God would counter this woman and her "voice" by saying, "He is not the God of the dead, but of the living"- Luke 20:38. The whole foundation of A Course in Miracles comes from a voice that was heard by a troubled athiest that had difficulty getting along with people. Are we to place our faith in a "voice" over that of our risen Savior?

Thursday, August 24, 2006

Let the chaplins pray

I just received this email from a dear sister in the Lord Ingrid Schluter host of a great and informative program called Cross talk.
We at The Simply Agape Project have and always will be concerned about our troops and their welfare.
We will also continue to get them free music to build their morale and let them know that Jesus loves them and we do to.

Here is the email please respond by calling a congressman--

For some time, we have been hearing of military chaplains being restricted in how they can conduct their religious services. This summer, it came to a head after a Navy Chaplain, Lt. Gordon James Klingenschmitt, was reprimanded because he conducted services in accordance with his Episcopal tradition, and not generic non-sectarian services.

The Secretary of the Navy later officially ruled that chaplains cannot pray in Jesus' name except in the confines of a chapel.

The Navy has now gone on the offensive to punish Chaplain Klingenschmitt at court-marshal for the crime of praying in the name of Jesus while in uniform outside of a chapel setting. A hearing has been held, and the trial could begin September 11.

According to Chaplain Klingenschmitt, Navy regulations allow him to wear the uniform and he had prior written permission to do so during prayers as long as he didn't pray in the name of Jesus. When he did so while wearing the uniform, he was accused of making a political speech and now he's under the threat of court-marshal.

The Secretary of the Navy has now officially ruled that chaplains cannot pray in Jesus' name except in the confines of a chapel.

President Bush can override the ruling of the Secretary of the Navy, restoring the rights of chaplains in all the military services.

In addition, the House version of the Defense Authorization Act, HR-5122, includes Section 590, which specifically authorizes chaplains to conduct services in accordance with their conscience and their own religious traditions. This would include praying in the name of Jesus. The Senate version of the bill, S-2766, does not have this provision, so the two must be reconciled in a conference committee.

Senator Lindsey Graham is holding the bills until the conference committee convenes.

Please contact the senators on the Conference Committee to give them your views on accepting the House version of the Defense Authorization Act, HR-5122, especially Section 590 which specifically authorizes chaplains to conduct services in accordance with their conscience, including the right to pray in Jesus' name:

Senator Lindsey Graham

Senator John Warner

Senator Carl Levin

Capitol Switchboard

Also contact the White House and ask the President to take action:


For updated information on Chaplain Klingenschmitt's fight for the right to pray in Jesus' name, and similar matters:

Thank you!

The Crosstalk Team


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New Paul Proctor article

Great article by Paul Proctor


By Paul Proctor

August 23, 2006

I caught an interesting article last week from that highlighted the frustrations of a disgruntled AIDS activist by the name of Martin Sempa, who was commenting on the absurdity of a recent international AIDS conference held in Toronto. As I read his rant I discovered some rather disturbing parallels between the AIDS movement and the church growth movement in how they both handle "disease."

Here's just some of what he had to say:

"The 'AIDS industry,' is a multi-billion dollar international enterprise now, and those who gather to enjoy lavish meals and hotels in Toronto this week, are more interested in 'managing the disease' than in curing it or stopping its spread, says Martin Sempa, a leading AIDS fighter from Uganda.

'Most of these guys don't care about stopping HIV/AIDS but just about managing the disease, keeping it going so they can continue to profit,' Sempa said.

'It's a multi-billion dollar industry,' he said. 'Pharmaceuticals, condoms, counsellors, distributors, advertising executives, grants for fake human rights groups and celebrity status. If you have AIDS you can be a star if you promote their agenda. It's become a disease of opportunity. If AIDS stopped today there would be millions of people who would stop getting an income.'

'I wouldn't waste my time.' Sempa said when asked why he had not attended the Conference. 'I didn't want to spend good money on fancy hotels and expensive meals to have no one listen to me. In Bangkok {2004}, the president of Uganda was booed {for promoting his country's abstinence program}. It was a hostile social environment and not conducive to a free exchange of ideas. A single mention of abstinence makes them become rabid.'

Our programs are under attack by human rights groups who claim that in trying to turn people away from sexual promiscuity, we are violating human rights. Human rights to them means condoms.'"

Well, since the "church" closely follows the culture these days and imitates it for the sake of the "Kingdom," it should come as no real surprise that "disease" is quickly becoming big business for the brethren as well, thanks to all of the hard work and dedication of Pastors Rick Warren from Saddleback Community Church, Lake Forest, California and Bill Hybels, Willow Creek Community Church, Barrington, Illinois, who co-sponsored their own AIDS conference at Warren's church last year called: "Disturbing Voices."

"'The only thing growing faster than the HIV/AIDS pandemic is the Church,' said Rick Warren, echoing the same conclusion reached by other conference speakers."

Well, I submit to you that AIDS and the "church," as Warren defines it, are both growing exponentially for much the same reason: There is no clear call for repentance - only a call for "love" and "compassion" - which, in reality, perverts the Gospel of repentance and faith in Jesus Christ into an irresistible, permissible, unaccountable, compromising, gratifying, no-fault, humanistic faith and practice that not only allows open rebellion against God and His Word into the church, but also welcomes it, as evidenced by the following quote, taken from a article covering a recent two-day Ecumenical and Interfaith pre-conference gathering in Toronto:

"Dr. Warren stressed that it is not a sin to be sick. 'We need to move from asking, How did you get HIV? to How can I help?'"

Now where do you suppose Pastor Warren came up with this dialectical diversion away from biblical truth? Well, in an another article chronicling Saddleback's 2005 "Disturbing Voices" conference, written by Whitney Kelley, entitled: HIV/AIDS Conference Shifts Focus From Education To Action, Rick's wife, Kay Warren reportedly said this:

"Jesus never asked anyone how he or she got sick - only the Pharisees did. Do you want to be a Pharisee? Or do you want to be like Jesus? If your compassion level goes up when you know it wasn't someone's fault, then there is something wrong."

First of all, Jesus Christ is God incarnate and is therefore omniscient; so, He "never asked anyone how he or she got sick" because He already knew!

Secondly, is Kay Warren suggesting here that AIDS really isn't anyone's fault? - Or that holding people accountable for their behavior is somehow wrong? And is she also saying if Christians so much as suggest that AIDS IS someone's fault, and teach that each of us ARE accountable for our behavior, that we are not being compassionate and are therefore "Pharisees?"

What about the "go, and sin no more" command from Jesus Christ to the woman caught in adultery in John 8:11? Does that make Him an uncompassionate "Pharisee" as well?

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" - Isaiah 5:20

And we wonder why the fire is gone from today's pulpits and the church is looking more and more like the fallen world around us with its lukewarm Laodicean "love" and "compassion." You see, if there's no sinful behavior at work, there's no need to repent; and if there's no need to repent, then there's no need to change our ways or our ways of thinking; so the seeker sensitive, Purpose Driven, church growth "Christian" simply carries on unconcerned, unfettered and unrepentant in the name of Jesus. That's why today's "church growth" looks more like a cancer than a cure.

Willow Creek's senior facilitator, Bill Hybels obviously agrees with the Warrens, judging by these following remarks taken from a article by Shannon Baker entitled: Saddleback Hosts Historic Church-Based HIV/AIDS Conference - a report on that same "Disturbing Voices" symposium in 2005:

"Bill and Lynne Hybels of Willow Creek Community Church shared that the Church must be the safe place where people can come to for healing and acceptance…'It's not our place to ask how or why people contracted the disease…It is our place to love them.'"

Again, no mention of sin and no call for repentance - just acceptance.

So, by "lovingly" focusing only on the symptoms and side effects of sin rather than on the cause and cure, the "church" not only sustains it, they capitalize on it to grow their numbers while Hell retains the reservations of the unrepentant, leaving them to conclude that because sin is merely a "disease," it's not really their fault - that they're just a good person with a bad problem who, by joining the co-opted and camouflaged liberal UN agenda of tolerance, diversity and unity, via the "Christian conservative" church growth movement, they miraculously find a "purpose" in life ("transformation") and a people who will generously stroke their self-esteem while "compassionately" strolling them into spiritual ruin by telling them exactly what they want to hear.

Considering the eternal consequences, just how is that being loving and compassionate?

Certainly not everyone who contracts AIDS engages in sexually promiscuous or deviant behavior; but the overwhelming majority of those that spread it, DO. Moreover, according to scripture, "…all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23) leaving no excuse for preachers of the Gospel to sit silent about "the wages of sin" (Romans 6:23) even for the sake of church growth.

Mega-churches, para-church organizations and their many ministries, affiliates and support groups now seem to have programs for almost every psychological ailment, addiction, disorder, disease and distress known to man. But the one thing that is noticeably absent is the biblical call to repentance.

Could it be that those in sin management don't really want such a message preached? After all, if their prospects and participants actually turned to Jesus Christ in true repentance and faith and experienced His healing, deliverance and life-transforming power, many of their popular programs would be rendered irrelevant; and that would spell disaster for the sin management industry called the "church growth movement" and subsequently put a lot of people out of work or, if you prefer, out of "ministry."

At that same pre-conference gathering in Toronto, "The People's Pastor" went on to say this:

"The solution to eliminating the threat of HIV/AIDS is not education, it is transformation," Dr. Warren said. "That involves saving sex for marriage, training men to respect women, offering treatment through churches, and encouraging individuals to pledge themselves to one partner."

What kind of "transformation" is he talking about - into a UN compliant Purpose Driven puppet? Where's Jesus Christ in all this? Where is the Gospel and the call to repentance? It simply isn't there; and THAT, my friends, is the real issue.

In spite of Warren's dialectic call for "transformation" (into being Purpose Driven) the fact is, most sinners today aren't being transformed, aren't being delivered, aren't being healed and aren't being saved because they aren't repenting and surrendering their lives over to Jesus Christ; they're only getting treatment and therapy by sin management specialists who frankly, are enjoying a rather booming business right now.

"Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." - 2nd Timothy 3:5

Until each of us individually acknowledges just who and what we are in the sight of Almighty God, and our sin is confessed and repented of in brokenness, humility and total surrender before His ONLY Begotten Son, Who paid for it on a Cross 2000 years ago - with or without AIDS - we ultimately face an unspeakable and unrelenting torment that no man or program can treat, comfort or cure.

Jesus said: "I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." - Luke 5:32

If you want to see a perfect example of just how the church today undermines the Gospel by imitating the world for the sake of growth, reread the lengthy quote near the top of this article, taken from and simply replace the word "AIDS" with the word "sin" and the word "abstinence" with the word "repentance." I think you will find the egregious parallels between the AIDS movement and the church growth movement compelling.

"And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not." - 2nd Peter 2:3

Related Articles:

1. AIDS a Glamorous Multi-Billion Dollar Industry
2. Rick and Kay Warren challenge church leaders to play a more vital role in the global AIDS response
3. HIV/AIDS Conference Shifts Focus From Education To Action
4. Saddleback hosts historic church-based HIV/AIDS conference
5. Report says church efforts against AIDS single most effective

© 2006 Paul Proctor - All Rights Reserved

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Paul Proctor, a rural resident of the Volunteer state and seasoned veteran of the country music industry, retired from showbiz in the late 1990's to dedicate himself to addressing important social issues from a distinctly biblical perspective. As a freelance writer and regular columnist for, he extols the wisdom and truths of scripture through commentary and insight on cultural trends and current events. His articles appear regularly on a variety of news and opinion sites across the internet and in print.


Tuesday, August 22, 2006

Why Rick Warren cant preach the cross

Now I want to make clear that I do believe(or at least its rumored) that Rick Warren could preach the cross.
But first read Dave Norris article of the cross and then you have to come to the comclusion that Rick Warren cant preach the cross because it would be bad for his buisness, Ricks purpose.
Ricks jesus is different from the Jesus of the Bible as well.

"The religion of the future will be a general converging of religions in a universal Christ that will satisfy all ... In the end, it is hoped that the Christian will become a better Christian and each Hindu a better Hindu." —Jesuit theologian Father Jacques Dupuis, at the 2003 interfaith congress "The Future of God"*

"The Christ has no religious barriers in His consciousness. It matters not to Him of what faith a man may call himself." —Alice Bailey & Djwhal Khul*

"I happen to know people who are followers of Christ in other religions." —Rick Warren*

"He ['the Christ'] inaugurated the new era and ... the new world religion began to take form. The word 'religion' concerns relationship ..." —Alice Bailey & Djwhal Khul*

"I have known many people who believe in the Messiah of Jesus, regardless of what religion they are, because they believe in him. It's about a relationship, not a religion." —Rick Warren*

"The day is dawning when all religions win [sic] be regarded as emanating from one great spiritual source; all will be seen as unitedly providing the one root out of which the universal world religion will inevitably emerge. Then there will be neither Christian nor heathen, neither Jew nor Gentile, but simply one great body of believers, gathered out of all the current religions." —Alice Bailey & Djwhal Khul*

"I thought, you know where people are moving in they probably need new houses of worships, temples, and synagogues, and churches, and stuff like that." —Rick Warren*

"The church is bigger than any organization in the world. Then you add in Muslims, you add in Hindus, you add in all the different religions, and you use those houses of worship as distribution centers, not just for spiritual care but health care." —Rick Warren*

"I could take you today to a million villages ... they got a church. Or they got a synagogue. They got something. They got a house of worship. The church is the biggest organization in the world.... And I came up with a thing called the P.E.A.C.E. Plan. When Jesus sent the disciples out, he said, 'When you go into a village, you find the man of peace.' Now this person doesn't have to be a Christian.... You find the person of peace, and then you begin to do the P.E.A.C.E. Plan ... Now why am I telling this to you? Because we're going public with it this next year in 2006.... And I believe it will change the world." —Rick Warren*

There is a great new book out on Rick Warren. The best written to date. Plus its free.
Go here to get your free copy

People by now need to know that Rick Warren does not rely on The Holy Spirit but his own earthly wisdom.
Rick said in Purpose Driven Church that he could tell you what kind of people you would attract and effect by the music your church plays.
Ricks agenda is heresy and hogwash at best.
What a lie straight from the pit.
That the Holy Spirit is limited by what music your church plays.
Crazy stuff.
Let me tell you a story.
A rather famous lady years ago related how she got saved. She was listening to the radio and a song came on "Save your heart for me" by Gary Lewis and The Playboys. The Holy Spirit used that song to appeal to her heart and she pulled the car over and asked Jesus into her life.
Well gee I played drums for Gary for several years and played Save your heart hundrds of times and it never was used to save me.
God acts as He will.
Now we make the mistake of seeing one instance and making a thing about it.
So just because God used this song in this one instance does not mean we start playing this song for a altar call.
The same goes for the biblical record of Pauls hankerchiefs being used to heal folk.
The holy hankie hawkers have made quite a profitable trade from this.

So anyway how do you tell the counterfiet?
Fill yourself with so much of Gods word that you see the false instantly.
I have heard a lot of talk of Rick Warren possibly being the antichrist.
Do I think he is?
Well I'll just say this.
John the Baptist announced the coming of our Lord Jesus.
What Jesus do you think Rick Warren is announcing?

Monday, August 21, 2006

The Message of the Cross

Why is the message of the cross foolishness to those that are perishing (1 Corinthians 1:18)? God made foolishness the wisdom of this world which the unsaved seem to relish in. In fact, we seek out almost every form of intelligence but God. How are those in the world supposed to relate to God? "Thus says the Lord, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom; Let not the mighty man glory in his might; Nor let the rich man glory in his riches. But let him who glories glory in this, that he understands and knows Me"- Jeremiah 9:23-24.

The whole goal of this life is to get to know God and Jesus. "This IS eternal life, that they may know Me, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent"- John 17:3. "But God forbide that I should glory EXCEPT in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me and I to the world"- Galatians 6:14. You see, the world does not want to be crucified with Christ (Galatians 2:20) because they want to live rather than on having Christ live THROUGH them.

I would like to ask the unsaved two questions and we shall await their answers. "What will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in EXCHANGE for his soul?"- Mark 8:36-37.

Wednesday, August 02, 2006

Great Purpose Driven article by Stuart L Brogden

A Purpose Driven Life – God’s Plan for you?
Stuart L Brogden

Rick Warren’s book appears to fill a significant gap, purporting to answer a legitimate question, “What on Earth am I here for?” I whole-heartedly endorse several chapters in this book (2,15 – 20, 25 – 29, 31, 32, 35), but must confess at the out-set that I believe this book has enough wrong with it to warrant careful handling. I have tried to focus on what I consider serious concerns with this book, dropping from this review over 5 pages of notes in the effort to not pick nits – at which I’m told I am quite good. As with everything, God’s Word is the authority.

One question I ponder every time a “Christian” book hits the bestseller list: “What in this book appeals to the sinful flesh?” No thinking person can honestly believe that such a high-sales book focuses on the requirements for discipleship – die to self. This country does not have enough Biblical disciples to account for this many book sales.

Let’s start out with the title, “The Purpose Driven Life”. Are we who claim Christ as King supposed to be driven? Throughout scripture, God drives His enemies – this word brings the connotation of coercion, disdain. This does not describe how God herds His people, whom He calls sheep. Opposed to cattlemen, shepherds lead their flocks. And God leads His people, just as a shepherd; He does not drive us.

In Exodus 6:1, God tells Israel that Pharaoh would drive them out with a hard heart. A few verses later, Exodus 6:8, God tells the children of Israel He will bring (to carry or pull in) them to the Promised Land. You may recall that God led the nation of Israel during their 40 years in the wilderness – by day with a pillar of cloud and by night with a pillar of fire. This contrast is repeated through many books in the Bible – none of which is accident or coincidence.

I submit that Christians should be purposeful and Spirit led, not purpose driven. I do not think this is merely semantics – there is too much clarity and consistency in scripture on this point. Check out the summary chart that follows.

Warren declares (page 9) “life’s most important question” to be, “What on earth am I here for?” Is this the most important question of life? Might scripture suggest, “Who is God?” may be more important? He goes on to declare that after you finish his book, “you will know God’s purpose for you … “ This strikes me as presumptive arrogance on Warren’s part: how can he know each reader will know God’s purpose at the completion of his book?

Still on page 9, Warren tells us, “Whenever God wanted to prepare someone for his purposes, he took forty days.” Here’s that smug assurance again, declaring this and providing no reference. Not only is this statement wrong (how long did God take to prepare Saul to become Paul? More than three years.), it is a blatantly false statement that lends numerology-based “credibility” to his premise. 40 is a significant number used myriad places in scripture – but God is not tied to numbers and no man should try to define God in ways and methods He has not revealed to us in His Word. And it was 40 YEARS, not days, that Moses and company wondered in the wilderness – and this was after Moses had spent 40 YEARS, not days, in the desert being “prepared for God’s purposes”. Note that on page 222, Warren runs down several examples of God taking long periods of time to prepare certain people. He covers himself by saying these incidents are “character building” rather than “preparing for God’s purpose.” Confused?

Warren tells us (pg 10), “Jesus was empowered by 40 days in the wilderness.” Empowered? Scripture says He was tested, severely – and was ministered to by angels after Satan left Him. The number of days has significance, no doubt, to Biblically literate Jews, but is not a formula that God relies upon to fulfill His plans. Warren prophecies that the reader will be transformed by the 40 days he plans for us in his book. A period of time never transforms a person – only God can do that and He is not tied to calendars or clocks.

Why is Rick Warren driven to make this egregious error? Why does he manipulate his source information to reinforce what can only properly be called numerology?

In closing out his introduction, Rick Warren sounds more like Benny Hinn than a disciple of Jesus: He tells us that he has special insight into our lives (pg 12), “I know all the great things that are going to happen to you.” Christian – are you reading this book? Paul tells us to test everything, hold to that which is true (1 Thess 5:21) and Christ tells us the greatest commandment is to love the Lord our God with our whole heart, soul, and mind. Are you loving Him with your mind?

Page 20, “He has clearly revealed his five purposes for our lives through the Bible.” Warren gives no evidence that there are only 5 purposes, or that God hasn’t clearly revealed only 2 purposes. Does Rick Warren have special insight? He then quotes (pg 20) from “the Message” and calls that book, “the Bible”. Throughout his book, Warren refers to this human paraphrase (which is oft quite excellent and occasionally poor, but never is it scripture) as God’s Word.

Page 27, “Everyone’s life is driven by something.” While any reasonable person would look around America and agree that many people are driven by something, who – apart from God – can say everyone is driven? Indeed, I submit that disciples of Christ, successfully walking in the Spirit, are not driven by anything but are led by the Holy Spirit.

On page 31, Warren declares another absolute without providing any reference: “Purpose-driven living leads to a simpler lifestyle and a saner schedule.” What American doesn’t want a simpler life and a saner schedule? But we must ask, is having a purpose-driven life God’s way to achieve this or does being driven cause stress and anxiety? God tells us to fix our eye on Christ.

Warren tells us on page 33, “Purpose always produces passion.” First, passion is not God’s priority – obedience is. Second, my job has been a cogent example of having purpose – both for the company and as a means of supporting my family – but it has often failed to produce passion. I can agree that many good, Godly works would be left undone if we were bereft of passion; and that many a Godly purpose can produce passion. But not always, and that isn’t God’s purpose.

Page 34, A time worn scenario, wherein God asks you “What did you do with my Son, Jesus Christ?” While this makes a good point – we should ponder this question – it doesn’t properly reflect God’s character nor His revelation of judgment day. God does not need to ask anyone this question and nobody will be asked it. Our names are either in the Book of Life or they are not. God knows the list and it remains only to be revealed to those who find themselves before the White Throne of judgment (Rev 20:12 – 15).

Page 37, Warren states, “If you learn to love and trust God’s Son, Jesus, you will be invited to spend the rest of eternity with him.” This is a poor interpretation of scripture. Consider Acts 16:30 – 31, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.” Warren’s “learn to love and trust” describes the long-term process of sanctification, not salvation. We must be called (“invited”) by the Spirit of God before we can love or trust Christ.

Page 40, “The deeds of this life are the destiny of the next.” All saints of God agree that the focus on eternity is wise, but this sentence tells the reader that his works determine his salvation. Clearly, God’s Word tells us, “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” (Ephesians 2:8 – 9). In case this isn’t clear enough, in Colossians 2:8 – 15 we are told that Christ is supreme, the Lamb of God - who made us alive when we were dead in our sins. Christ’s deeds – His work on the cross – determined our destiny. Without His sacrifice, our destiny – hell – was sealed. By His sacrifice, called by His Spirit, and given the faith to believe, we are saved from hell and sealed for all time in Christ.

Page 69, Warren tells us that in the days of Noah, “God couldn’t find anyone on earth interested in pleasing him …” Then he tells us, referring to Noah, “But there was one man who made God smile.” Now which is it? One of these statements, separated by one sentence, must be false. “Noah found favor in the sight of the Lord.” (Gen 6:8). We know Warren’s second statement is true – it’s validated in scripture – so we know his earlier statement is false. God knew of one man on Earth who pleased Him and He knew that man was Noah.

Warren tells us (pg 105) that we are lying when we tell someone, “I’ll be there in spirit.” He claims we can only be where our physical body is. Certainly, his point about serving God with our bodies is on target, but this assertion - again, with no reference – contradicts scripture! Ephesians 2:4 – 6 tells us that we who are in Christ are at this moment seated together with Christ in heaven. This is truth – we are present in spirit where we are not present in body. When you tell a friend you will be there in spirit, this can be true if you are in prayer for that friend at that time.

Page 108, He quotes Floyd McClung, who mentions rebuking the devil as a method of seeking “spiritual feelings” (whatever those are). This is another bit of emotion baiting, used by radio personality Bob Larson, but not found in scripture. God may rebuke Satan, but man is told simply to resist him (James 4:7) as an act of humility before God. When man rebukes something, it evokes pride in him, not humility. By quoting McClung, Warren lends credence to the man and his quoted statement.

Regarding Chapter 21: Unity in and of itself is not a biblical goal for believers. Protecting our church will happen when we seek God’s Truth and strive to live as obedient children. I think Warren takes a reasonable goal – unity within the church – and makes that outcome more important than our personal pursuit of holiness. Too many churches focus on unity to the exclusion of reasoned discussion or biblical resolution of conflicts. Christians should never sacrifice truth or personal obedience to Christ for the sake of “unity”. Warren rightfully points out (pg 163) that reconciliation is God’s desire for us. Unity will be by-product of obedient living.

On page 162, Warren points out that we are not perfect, that Christians still hurt one another. But he calls Christians sinners, because we sin. God recognizes that His children sin, but He refers to His children as “saints”, and calls the unredeemed “sinners”. (Read Romans 1:1 – 7 and Romans 5:8 for an example.) It is important for us to see ourselves as God describes us.

On page 164, Warren tells the reader, “When you criticize what another believer is doing in faith and from sincere conviction, you are interfering with God’s business.” Warren focuses on two totally subjective measures (faith & conviction) and omits the one objective measure – is the other believer’s behavior in concert with or contradictory to God’s Word? Doing something wrong with sincere conviction and faith is meaningless and dangerous guidance. Many people are sincerely wrong about many things – abortion, homosexuality, divorce. They have faith in themselves – not God. Faith itself is not adequate nor is it a validation of trust in God. For it is the object of your faith, not your faith, that is significant. That’s why just a little is sufficient.

If you have a friend who trusts Christ but is sincerely pursuing that which is wrong, you need to know that God commands you to get involved (Galatians 6:1 – 2). Let us recall God’s encouragement from Proverbs, “Open rebuke is better than secret love. Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.” (Proverbs 27:5 – 6)

On page 166, Warren tells us that Pastors are “given the impossible task of trying to make everyone happy, which even Jesus could not do!” First, any pastor who has this task has taken it upon himself. It’s not his job, it’s not anyone’s job. Jesus did not even try to make everyone happy. He sought to please only one person – His Father in heaven. Why does Warren tell us this, to make us feel sorry for our pastors – or to think Christ can fall short at something?

Warren promotes his church’s use of membership covenants as a tool that facilitates unity (page 167). Who, at Saddleback, has the purpose of holding the clergy accountable? A church can be unified and failing to follow Christ. The record cited by Warren (Saddleback “has never had a conflict that split the fellowship.”) could reflect a.) The power of God in keeping everyone humble, b.) Conflict not worth splitting over, or c.) Conflict that is unresolved and hidden. We are not told if people have left Saddleback as a result of conflict. Check out the Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches ( to see unity in apostasy.

Page 174, “Obedience unlocks God’s power.” Every author who assigns human characteristics to God that are not revealed in scripture gets himself in trouble. Where does Warren get the notion that God is dependent on sinful man’s obedience to “unlock” His power? When the children of Israel disobeyed God, He released His power and disciplined them. When Jonah disobeyed God, He displayed His power by commanding a great fish to change Jonah’s course. God alone chooses when, where, and how to use His power and no man can lock it up or control it . In the example he cites, Warren completely misrepresents God. The Lord was not held back from stopping the river Jordan until the Israeli leaders stepped out as commended. He chose to hold back until that act of faith for His glory and the good of Israel. He chose – He was not held back nor was He released by the people He chose.

On page 175, we are told, “God waits for you to act first.” Why can he not qualify this - “Often, God waits for you to act first.”? Again, he provides no reference and the Bible gives examples of God taking the initiative – most importantly, in the act of salvation (John 6:44). We would all go to hell if God waited for us to “act first” and seek Him.

Page 177, “Much confusion in the Christian life comes from ignoring the simple truth that God is more interested in building your character than he is anything else.” Where did Warren find this “simple truth”? This makes me think, “It is all about me!” But we know Rick was right on page 17 when he said otherwise. I think the Bible tells us God desires to be glorified more than He desires anything else – God’s glory is what Jesus was focused on (John chapters 14 & 16, & 17) and it is reflected in the first two commandments (Exodus 20:1 – 6). And bringing glory to God is what Christ tells us to do (Matthew 5:16). It is the one thing He won’t share.

Page 257, “God determines your greatness by how many people you serve, not how many serve you.” What is this and where did it come from? Warren provides no reference and I wonder if this perspective is what drives him to build the membership at Saddleback. I think God judges our “greatness” (I would choose “worth”) by how we serve Him and others, not how many people we serve. The old widow in Mark 12:41 – 44 didn’t serve any people, yet Christ put high value on her. It is our heart motive, not our earthly influence, which matters to Him.

We are told (pg 282) that “Introducing people to God!” is the mission of the church. (Again, I’m confused: we have one mission but five purposes?) Jesus gave us what we call “the Great Commission” (Matthew 28:18 – 20), wherein we are told to “make disciples” – not “introduce people to God.” One of the major problems in the church today is that we have too many Christians who have been introduced to God and too few disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ!

“God has never made a person he didn’t love.” (pg 294). There is no scriptural reference for this belief, yet Paul reminds us in Romans 9:7 – 13 that God hated Esau, even before he was born. Paul continues to explain how God chooses to treat people as it suits Him in Romans 9:14 – 24, making it clear that some folk are created by God as objects of His wrath. But let no man think he knows the mind of Almighty God on the specifics of this matter. Check out Proverbs 16:4

My apologies for the length of this examination of Rick Warren’s book, but I could not see clear to omit anything above. I pray God alone speaks to our hearts through His Spirit and His Word to grant us wisdom to know and love Him all the more, in truth and in humility.

In His grip of grace,

Stuart L. Brogden

19 Aug 2004

1 Peter 2:17

Driven or Led?

Notice the difference between being "driven" and being "led":

Driven usually implies a controlling force pushing or forcing a passive subject (cattle, enemies, rebellious people, ship, etc):


"He is driven from light into darkness..." Job 18:18

"...until He has driven out His enemies from before Him." Numbers 32:21

" shall be driven mad because of the sight which your eyes see." Deuteronomy 28:34-35

“For the Lord has driven out from before you great and strong nations; but as for you, no one has been able to stand against you to this day." Joshua 23:9

"David took all the flocks and herds they had driven before those other livestock." 1 Samuel 30:19-20

"Will You frighten a leaf driven to and fro?" Job 13:25

"Then they will look to the earth, and see trouble and darkness, gloom of anguish; and they will be driven into darkness." Isaiah 8:22

"But I will gather the remnant of My flock out of all countries where I have driven them, and bring them back to their folds." Jeremiah 23:3

"You shall be driven out, everyone headlong, and no one will gather those who wander off." Jeremiah 49:5

"But when his heart was lifted up, and his spirit was hardened in pride, he was deposed from his kingly throne, and they took his glory from him. Then he was driven from the sons of men, his heart was made like the beasts." Daniel 5:20-21

"But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways." James 1:6-8

"Look also at ships: although they are so large and are driven by fierce winds." James 3:4
Led or lead usually implies a choice on the part of God's people -- those who look to His Word and want to know and follow His ways:


"And the Lord went before them by day in a pillar of cloud to lead the way." Exodus 13:21

"Oh, send out Your light and Your truth! Let them lead me." Psalm 43:3

"O My people! Those who lead you cause you to err, and destroy the way of your paths.” Isaiah 3:12

"Lead me in Your truth and teach me, for You are the God of my salvation; on You I wait all the day." Psalm 25:5

"I will lead them in paths they have not known. I will make darkness light before them, and crooked places straight. " Isaiah 42:16

"Even there Your hand shall lead me, and Your right hand shall hold me." Psalm 139:10

"...see if there is any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting." Psalm 139:24

"Teach me to do Your will, for You are my God; Your Spirit is good. Lead me in the land of uprightness." Psalm 143:10

"I will bring the blind by a way they did not know; I will lead them in paths they have not known. I will make darkness light before them, and crooked places straight. " Isaiah 42:16

"And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever." Matthew 6:13

"...for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.” Revelation 7:17

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