The No Goofy Zone Discernment Ministry

The No Goofy Zone is a discernment ministry for saved born again Christians and all who are seeking the truth.We expose non-biblical trends in the church. We are making material available to advance understanding of issue's which endanger Christianity. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit.

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Location: Piqua, Ohio, United States

Former drummer for Gary Lewis and The Playboys and The Coasters. Tim has also played with Paul Baloche, Lincoln Brewster, Darlene Zscech and Hillsongs, Jeff Fenholt, SteveCamp among others. Tim founded The Simply Agape Project in 2001 to get free Christian music to the troops. Recordings have been made with Tim, and friends Alex Acuna, Abe Laboriel SR, Justo Almario,Steve Camp , Jared Ming and some wonderful Independant Christian artists.The Somebody Brave CD also features words of encouragment to the soldiers from Pastors, Moms, Dads, and Lt Col Brian Birdwell a Pentegon 9/11 survivor Tim is married to Donna Wirth and has four children Alan 25,Steven 23, Brittany 22, Bethany 21. Tim has played in numerous churchs as well as shows on TBN. Tim has also performed on JCTV on the show Generation Worship featuring worship leader Jared Ming. Tim has a book published worldwide titled "Pass The Plate And Let Us Prey" (My Search For Black and White Christianity in a Gray Nation)

Monday, April 30, 2007

The Dark Ages Conclusion-What do we do when there is so much confusion in the camp?

I guess the simple answer here is to read your Bibles and stand by what it states.

If something conflicts with it, refuse to be a part of it.

My personal thoughts on why there is so much confusion is besides the obvious infiltration of the enemy through The Emergent church, Word Faith and many other fronts it has to do with money.

Many folks have been making a pretty good haul from DVDs, conferences, books etc..

I also believe that God is fed up with all these money changers.

If guys like David Jeremiah and Josh McDowell continue to sympathize with the New Age and Emergent church what do you do?

Josh just endorsed Dan Kimballs new book.

David still promotes contemplatives (new age).

David Jeremiah Continues Promoting Contemplatives

For several years now, popular speaker and preacher David Jeremiah has been showing signs that he is in favor of contemplative spirituality. In 2001, he was quoting Henri Nouwen in church services. In 2002, he had his endorsement on the back cover of Erwin McManus' book, Seizing Your Divine Moment. In Jeremiah's 2003 book, Life Wide Open, he favorably quoted several authors with mystical and/or New Age proclivities. 1 Over the last couple years he has publicly rallied behind New Age sympathizer Ken Blanchard and mystic-promoting futurist Erwin McManus, and in Jeremiah's 2006 book, Captured by Grace, he includes an endorsement by Blanchard and favorably quotes Henri Nouwen again.In this week's Turning Point (David Jeremiah's daily commentary), he has once again shown his affinity toward those who practice or teach mystical meditation (i.e., contemplative). His commentary called "Living in Harmony" is summed up when he says "we should all live in harmony." But Jeremiah's quoting of mystic Saint Thomas Aquinas in his commentary today is troublesome. When Jeremiah said "we should all live in harmony," he was referencing the apostle Peter (1 Peter 3:8) who was speaking directly to other Christians (that's why Peter said "brethren"). For Jeremiah to quote Aquinas as saying "How can we live in harmony? First we need to know we are all madly in love with the same God," is inappropriate because contemplative mystics, like Aquinas, believe God dwells in all creation (including all humans). We pray and hope that David Jeremiah will soon see the danger of contemplative/emerging theologies and rather than pointing people to this dangerous spirituality, he will warn them about it.

In Friday's email, Jeremiah stated:
This weekend, I will be sharing the second message in our Fall Journey With Jesus. The title of the message is "The Manliness of Jesus." I am praying that it will fire you up as much as it has me. It's a major paradigm shift from our normal thoughts about Jesus. This week, I have read a book by Erwin McManus called THE BARBARIAN WAY. In it, he says something that should prepare our hearts for the weekend message.While the quote from the book is benign, the book is not, and if any mention of the book is made by Jeremiah, it should be one of warning. If you have been following Jeremiah's slip toward what we might call contemplative/emerging Christianity, his promotion of McManus' book probably won't be too surprising.

End quote from Lighthouse Trails-

Another article concerning this was sent to me from a friend and brother in the Lord ,Ken Silva

Like a muddied spring or a polluted well is a righteous man who gives way to the wicked. (Proverbs 25:26)
Sending Mixed Messages Even Though Well Intentioned
In what I consider a bit of an unfortunate article by Sean McDowell at Christian Worldview Network, which served as his review of the book They Like Jesus But Not The Church by Emergent Church Pastor Dan Kimball, McDowell writes:
There is little doubt that the contemporary church is in trouble. Statistics reveal an unsettling exodus from the church by younger generations who are “spiritual, but not religious.” Pastor Dan Kimball has addressed this disturbing trend head-on in his new book They Like Jesus but not the Church (Zondervan, 2007). Dan is a pastor at Vintage Faith Church and the author of multiple books on the emerging church* His book is endorsed by Lee Strobel, Josh McDowell, Greg Koukl, and other respected conservative voices. (Online source)
This is rather sad news because it now lends further evangelical credibility to the anti-Reformation which is now going on within the Ecumenical Church of Deceit of the new evangelicalism. Dan Kimball is often painted as being thoroughly orthodox but I’ll show you in Part Two that he is most definitely not completely orthodox and these other gentlemen seem to be wearing their hearts on their sleeves in wishful thinking, possibly because Dan is such a nice guy. O please, can we finally put this most ridiculous argument out to pasture once and for all. I have met tons of nice people with various false beliefs, some of which Dan also has, but in love I have had to correct them.
Titus 1:9 tells the minister of the Gospel of Jesus Christ he is to hold – fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict. Now this necessitates that we actually know what this faithful word is and we therefore also need to know what sound doctrine is or we would never know when to refute those who contradict. If we listen to rapidly multiplying and emboldened Emergent fools like Brian McLaren and Rob Bell and Tony Jones we are told this sound doctrine has to reinterpreted in each generation. Right, as SNL’s ol’ Church Lady would say: “How convenient.”
I believe there is a lot of confusion coming from Brannon Howse team at Christian Worldview Network in what I see is wanting to have it both ways.

Ken writes for Brannon even though this article was not listed on Brannon's site under Kens link.

Ingrid Schulter is also a contributor on Brannon's site and for sure Ingrid is not Emergent friendly.

Ingrid did fail to respond to my email questioning what she thought about Josh McDowell endorsing Dan Kimball's new book.

I personally avoid Brannon's site because of his seeming love for self promotion and conflicting information from his writers.

Why do some people not hold their writers accountable to preach the truth acording to scripture?

I'm not sure but maybe its-

You mention these names in a conference and your sure going to have a great turn out which means lots of money.

So are you going to go against the grain and have these type of personalities no longer starring in your shows?

Of course not.

Not unless you are ready to maybe lose everything.

You may have to get a job as a tentmaker.

And who wants to do that?

Don't ever just take my word for it.

Be good Bereans and check everything against Gods Word in scripture.

Last thing to remember is you need to judge for yourselves whats going on in Christianity.

1 Cor 5:12

"or what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?"

And another good verse to remember is-

James 1:7-8

"For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord;he is a double–minded man, unstable in all his ways."


The Dark Ages Part 5- When the Body of Christ becomes a business Part 2- Rick Warren

You have got to give credit where credit is due.

Schuller couldn't do it.

Hybels couldn't do it on the scale Warren does.

Rick Warren is a networking and business genius.

He has almost single handily turned a large number of pastor into CEO's.

Which is a oxymoron because you cant do what Rick does and follow Jesus at the same time.

Their teaching are in conflict even though Rick likes to name drop our Lord quite often.

Rick doesn't follow Jesus or scripture but yet his own religion.

1John 2:15-16

"Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

For all that is in the world––the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life––is not of the Father but is of the world"

Now I'm pretty sure Rick would disagree with me and state that he doesn't love the world.

Ricks methods and teaching show otherwise.

Ive learned not to trust anything Rick Warren states because-

1. Its not based on the Bible but Ricks own distorted, warped rendering of scripture.

2. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Ever read a article you wish you had wrote?

I read a couple today sent to me from a friend in the Lord.

I will share it with you now in two parts.

Very long but a good read-Tim

from the Independent Conservative-

by IndependentConservative @ 1:11 pm. Filed under Nuts on Parade
I’m just going to cut to the quick and start detailing why Rick Warren is more harmful to the faith than some might suspect.
First off, he’s OK with teaming with people involved in cults and watering down his own ministry of the Gospel, if it means he can give somebody a hot meal. He’s emphasizing physical charity over spiritual ministry.
From NBC Meet the Press Transcript 12/24/2006
DR. WARREN: Well, it’s a good concern. That’s true, most of the world is non-Christian, two thirds is not, but the—most of the world has faith of some kind. For instance, there are 600,000 Buddhists in the world, there are 800,000 Hindus, there are 1.3 billion Muslims and 2.3 billion Christians. The actual number of true secularists is actually quite small outside of Manhattan or Europe. So most people have a faith. Now, if you say you have to put your faith on the shelf to do humanitarian aid, you’ve ruled out most of the world. And, and so what I’m saying is, I honestly don’t care what your motivation is to do good, as long as you do good. You might have a political motivation. Somebody comes and says to you, “It makes good sense—it’s good foreign policy for us to help people get well, like with AIDS.” I’ve noticed they tend to like your country when you help them out. It’s just flat out good foreign policy to do health care, OK? That’s not my motivation, but it’s fine. Then there might be a political—a profit motivation, make money and help people. I wish more businesses did it.
By Rick’s own definition, Arab Muslims working in Africa is good, so long as they provide medical care.Here’s more from him. (Same transcript)
…I feel deeply about pro-life, very deeply about it. I’m a staunch pro-lifer. But I will work with anyone on anything if we can work together.…
Warren does not realize that he is the one putting his faith on the shelf. But hey, who needs Jesus if they’ve got medical care? I mean all he did was heal people right? (sarcasm)
He goes on to say:
I don’t agree with everything my gay friends agree with, and they don’t agree with everything I, I believe in, but if they want to work on AIDS, we’ll work with them. We’ll work with anybody. That’s this civility of, to quote that great theologian Rodney King, “Can’t we just get along?” And have—look at what’s the common good.
So work with the homosexuals on AIDS, just don’t go telling them they need to repent or anything. After all, Jesus just ran around healing people, right? (sarcasm)
Folks, we should not compromise the ministry of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, just so we can say we gave some AIDS medicine to someone and the pro-gay lobby gave us money to help do it. While on earth in flesh, Jesus always ensured that he and his disciples sent the message of repentance along with their humanitarian efforts. That means the pro-gay crowd and the Muslims won’t want to work with someone engaged in true Christian ministry. Likewise the Christian would not desire to work with those not helping to spread the message of Jesus Christ! Jesus told people “go and sin no more”, not go ahead and sin and we’ll hand out some condoms in the morning, or you hand out the condoms and I’ll hand out an AIDS pamphlet, whatever works for you so long as we can do it together.

ABCNews program Nightlne did a report about Warren this week. And one who saw what Warren’s efforts can turn a church group into offered his opinion.
Rick Warren and Purpose-Driven Strife
…One of the first people to leave Bartlett’s church was a retired pastor, Joe Owings.…“Well, the preaching was very much topical preaching,” Owings said about the church he parted from in North Carolina. “It tended to deal with how to have a better marriage, or how to do this or how to do this. It was more self-help type ministry.”
When asked if he believed that some churches had become pop psychology centers focusing too much on self-esteem and well-being, Owings said, “Yes. It’s merchandising. … It tends to use psychological techniques. And it quotes more Freud, maybe, than it does the Bible.”…
When I hear Warren on the radio I feel exactly the same as Owings. And let me tell you folks, old ministers know the game backwards and forwards. So heed when an elder of the church says there is a problem. (See: 1 Peter 5) Churches like Warren’s always succeed in having “elders” who are about 45 years old and usually have been saved for about 10 years or less, while all the older more seasoned saints like Owings leave.
Now granted when Warren is confronted with these concerns he has a ready defense, but his church and others continue to do it.
See the full video ABCNews report here. Hat tip goes to Bryan at Hot Air.
You know I’ve already had to cover the truth regarding tithes. Does Rick Warren’s new style church teach the new covenant form of giving money? You’ve got to be kidding!
Living with purpose - Chicago Tribune article hosted on the Saddleback Church (Warren’s church) web site
…For his part, Warren says he hears all the time that Saddleback is, as he puts it, “a shallow, superficial church that caters to the whims of consumeristic Christianity.” But he points out that Saddleback’s membership requirements include a pledge to tithe (give 10 percent of your income to the church) and to go on humanitarian mission trips.…
And given he’s working with non-Christians for the sake of humanitarian work, those missions will be limited regarding how much actual ministry of the Gospel of Jesus Christ that they will do. Wouldn’t want to offend anybody you know.
Now when it comes to Warren’s church endorsing false teaching regarding tithes, just look at how they bind people who question them. And this is another one right off Warren’s church web site.
Tithe on gross or net?
Question: I know that tithing is supposed to be giving 10 percent to the Lord. Is that 10 percent of the gross or of the net after taxes? I don’t know that I could afford to give 10 percent of what I earn before taxes!…
The person is obviously hurting to make ends meet and hoping to be faithful while still being able to be an honest broker with people they are in debt to. I’ve already explained how Christians are not bound under the old Jewish law of tithing. A law that even today’s Orthodox Jews don’t adhere to, because the Levitical priests are dead. For Christians the old law is dead and we live in the newness of Grace, that came with the sacrifice and resurrection of Jesus Christ. But Warren’s church like others tell people who struggle the following lies.
From the answer given by Tom Holladay at Saddleback.
…The practice that Christians have always carried out is the giving of 10 percent back to the Lord of ALL that the Lord has given to you - your gross.…
The correct answer would have been that Christians are not bound under the law and should give as the Lord leads. But look what is said in the Lord’s name.
…The Lord could have asked us to give 50 percent to him, but he chose 10 percent.…
Jesus never paid tithes, the apostles never paid tithes, Jesus never collected tithes, the apostles never collected tithes, but just like many churches regarding this false teaching, Saddleback goes with the old school lie when it comes to money .
Then comes the talk about others who gave 10% seeing earthly life changing blessings.
…Yet when they’ve started to give they have seen God bless them in a way that was life-changing.…
Notice they never tell you about all the people who give and now their creditors are not seeing them as such good Christians. This is why people should give as led by the Lord. So that they can be honest brokers with creditors and give as would be best for their circumstances. Notice the responses to tithes never mention Jesus telling the rich man to give all his money to THE POOR. I mean if you gave it all to THE POOR than Saddleback would not get A DIME.
And then comes the pitch to start paying that 10% of gross NOW.
…I’d encourage you to start now and make the sacrifice to tithe beginning this next month. Read Malachi chapter 3 (the last book in the Old Testament). You’ll find a verse where God encourages us to test him in this by tithing.…
Never mind those creditors and your family needs, give to Saddleback (oh they say God) now.
1 Timothy 5:8 (New King James Version)
8) But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
Matthew 25:31-46 mentions to us that we see Jesus when we see the needy, but at Saddleback they are instructed to give that 10% to “Saddleback”. No mention is made that Malachi was a prophet to the Jews of Israel regarding the old covenant, that passed away with the new covenant explained in Hebrews 7 & 8. The claim is made that God encourages “us” to test “Him” by tithing, when God was encouraging Jews before Christ came to earth in flesh to test him in a form of tithing that is NOTHING like what is taught at Saddleback. Read that whole book of Malachi and you find they actually were “paying” tithes and offerings, but not as God commanded!
And how come today’s pastors never preach about the apostle Paul working as a tent maker to take care of himself? (See: Acts 18) Going places and WORKING A REGULAR JOB, while also ministering and giving money to the needy, to the point he was broke himself. Today the pastors, associates pastors and even musicians are taking a salary at many churches. (In some cases it is a Love Offering. Some pastors say that they give it away, but why take it in the first place if you don’t intend to keep it? Tell the people to give it away like Jesus did.) When Jesus collected money it was actually used for ministry, except what Judas was stealing, which Jesus knew about but allowed given scriptures had to be fulfilled. Maybe Saddleback is not so “new” in some ways after all.
Here’s what Melvin Jones at Pulpit Pimps has to say about Warren and his book “The Purpose Driven Life”.
Purpose Driven Tripe or The Bible Driven Life
…Rick Warren, the author of the now ubiquitous “The Purpose Driven Life (TPDL)” is probably doing more to destroy Christianity than Calypso Louie (AKA The Honorable Louis Farrakhan) has ever done.…
Read it all. You know Melvin always fully details his statements with an avalanche of proof.
Now some of you might say I’m somehow wrong to be critical of someone who claims the faith. I say to you, that you should consider reading The Word of God for yourself and being critical of those who come to you with something they claim is “new”.
2 Timothy 3:12-17 (New King James Version)
12) Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.
13) But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.
14) But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them,
15) and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16) All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
17) that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Who would rather I see the wolf, who does all he can in the name of “growth” and not warn you? Even if you rebuke me, I’m still going to have enough LOVE for you to inform you that you’re being influenced by a WOLF. And having done that, at judgment you will have to assume responsibility for your choice and I won’t face judgment for not warning you of the danger I saw.

Part 2-

by IndependentConservative @ 6:22 pm. Filed under Nuts on Parade, Business
Jesus and the money changers had a fairly clear relationship. They wanted to market in the temple and Jesus was not having it.
Matthew 21:12-14 (New King James Version)
12) Then Jesus went into the temple of God and drove out all those who bought and sold in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who sold doves.
13) And He said to them, “It is written, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer,’ but you have made it a ‘den of thieves.’”
14) Then the blind and the lame came to Him in the temple, and He healed them.
Jesus did not ask them to partner with him and fund the ministry. He knew their motives and kicked them out!
Before I continue, there are a few points that must be understood and if you disagree with them, you probably won’t be able to make sense of the rest of this post:
1) Today the “temple” is the church, as in the body of Christ, as in human beings who accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior and live to please him.
2) Businesses operate to serve the interests of owners/investors, who use the business as a means to make money.
3) In relation with point #2 above, businesses operate to make money and all functions of a business are done with that goal in mind.
Jesus and the apostles accepted freely given funds from people who followed the Lord and wanted to help fund the ministry of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. There is no record of heathens, money changers and others who were not actual followers of Christ helping to fund ministry. People who provided money were first converts and then provided money. So if a CEO accepts Jesus into their heart and then desires to give money, that is correct and scripturally supported. If the CEO wants to give before accepting Jesus, the focus should be on helping the CEO get their heart right with the Lord before taking their money. A company, being an entity developed for the sake of making money is only going to give money when there is a tangible return. Businesses will never come close to the Matthew 6 style of giving. Because when they give they typically provide their own press release or do it in a manner that requires the receiver to publicize the company’s brand. In short, they give as a form of advertising that is called charity, which provides a nice tax break. I’m not saying businesses should not give to anyone, but the church that receives from a business (not an individual) is going to be expected to provide something in return. Which will tarnish the entire process. So while a secular charity might gladly accept corporate funding, the church should exercise extreme caution with corporations and avoid corporate based funding. Government faith based funding is a bad idea, because it intertwines government rules and restrictions with ministry. It is worse with corporate funding. Because the company will not desire to see the money used for evangelism and the company will want their brand advertised as well. So, the church should keep the money changers out. Accept in those who wish to learn about Jesus and post conversion any individuals that wish to donate, that’s the proper order of things.
Having said all that, I was looking at the May 7, 2007 issue of Forbes magazine and noticed an article by none other than Saddleback Church pastor Rick Warren. This issue of Forbes was all about networking. So just what would a pastor have to tell business people in an issue of a business magazine devoted to networking? Accept Jesus, he’s the best network with eternal gains? NOPE! Jesus wants you to join his network which is better than man’s? NOPE!. Warren was not writing this article as a businessman, but in his role as pastor of a church. If Warren worked in corporate marketing outside of the church (even if he also was a pastor) and wrote an article in Forbes that was not on behalf of the church (as in Christians) and was about business networks, I would not be making this post. But Warren wrote an article in a business magazine on behalf of the church and did exactly the opposite of the Lord’s example. He asked businesses to give in order for the church to do what he feels are good works. Keep in mind, I noted in a previous post how Rick Warren is willing to work with people who have absolutely no desire to spread the message of Jesus Christ.
Warren’s piece is titled The Power of Parishioners and you will need to get a free account to read it. I’m not going to quote any of it here, because I want you to read it all yourself. I want you to make the assessment of it on your own and I don’t want to pull a clip of this one that someone might feel was misconstrued. I’m giving my thoughts on it here, but you read the whole thing and consider the example of Jesus and the apostles.
Warren speaks of 5 global problems he wants to address:
spiritual emptiness
He proposes a 3 way partnership to address these issues:
The Church
While spiritual emptiness is the first mentioned in his list of problems, in his solicitation to the business community for help, he only cites examples that address poverty and disease. These are the only 2 areas he goes in depth on. He does not say any more about the spiritual side of things and never says “Jesus” a single time. Keep in mind, he’s representing the church in this article. Soliciting for the church. But he totally neglects to mention Jesus and never says he wants to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
You might be asking, so what’s wrong with him seeking to have churches work with big business to fight poverty and disease? As I’ve already mentioned, these kinds of partnerships come at a price. The price would be that the church would face restrictions on how any corporate donations are spent, like with money from the government. Companies know if they were to openly fund a church with the expressed intention of spreading the message of Jesus Christ and him alone, that all their non-Christian contacts would be ticked and for them that would be bad for business. Also, the company would want to use the “partnership” as a marketing tool. Money changers would be fully in the temple doing their marketing. They would market not only to the church members, but also make press releases to laud how they gave to the church. On top of that, they would probably seek to have any church effort mention their name/brand and leverage the church for a form of advertising.
The church is to do good works, but we must maintain the proper context of our efforts. If we take from government as the church, we are not bound by what the Lord commands, but what government commands be done with the money. If we take from corporations, we are bound by corporate requests, that could be more demanding than those from government. Also, once that corporation is caught in scandal, they’d want face time with the church, to put a nice spin out to the media.
And of course there are the issues with what the corporation might be involved in as a company that is outside of the will of the Lord.
We are to spread the message of Jesus and in that do the good works. Not prostitute the church to make money to do good works that are restricted from fully offering the uncompromised Gospel of Jesus Christ. Which would include things like telling a homosexual convert that they need to turn from that lifestyle. Something companies and even some governments would not like to see done.
I feel Warren’s efforts set a dangerous precedent and will turn the church into an extension of the money changer.
From my friend and brother in the Lord Sandy Simpson. (After reading this do a search on C. Peter Wagner)
Rick Warren wrote his doctoral dissertation at Fuller Seminary on his church growth ideas. His mentor was C. Peter Wagner! Here is a copy of the FirstSearch Dissertations Abstracts listing:
DAI, 54, no. 03A, (1993): 0967
One out of every three Americans alive today was born during the eighteen year period between 1947 and 1964. These 74,000,000 adults are the Baby Boom Generation. Today the youngest of the Baby Boomers is 24 and the oldest is 41 years old. In addition to being the largest generation of Americans, Baby Boomers are unique in their attitudes, values, and lifestyles. There are significant cultural differences between the Baby Boomer and the generations that both precede and follow them.
A People magazine survey found that only 11% of Baby Boomers regularly attend church. The basic argument of this dissertation is that most Baby Boomers will never be reached by traditional churches. We must establish new churches to reach this new generation of Americans. It will require new churches that understand the Baby Boom mindset and are intentionally designed to meet their needs, tastes, and interests.
During the past thirteen years, I have been researching, testing, and implementing principles and programs to reach Baby Boomers. I began the Saddleback Valley Community Church in January, 1980 in my home with my wife and the first family I met when I moved to the area. My target was to reach Baby Boomers. Today, the church averages about 6,000 in attendance. Over 50% of the members are Baby Boomers and nearly 70% were saved and baptized at the church.
Our church has sponsored 20 daughter churches since it began. In each of these new churches we have used the same strategy with good results. I believe the strategy we're developing at Saddleback is reproducible in other new church starts.

Thursday, April 26, 2007

The Dark Ages Part 5- When the Body of Christ becomes a business Part 1

I just received this from a dear sister in the Lord of mine. Really scary stuff where the church is heading into this new Dark Ages .
I will be wrapping up this series this week so stay tuned for more.



Dear Friends, I was recently in Illinois and was introduced to a unique new church format---video church. There is no lead or senior pastor, only teaching tapes that are shown on large screens for their church services. The church that is forging this new way of doing church is Heartland Community church in Rockford, Ill. Their website is: They have grown so fast they recently bought an entire shopping mall in the downtown area and are converting it for their church site. I dropped by during the week and took some photos which are attached. Also included is this article I found on the net. For all the church research I've done---I've never heard of this type of church format.
Be a berean!

I have seen the future!
(Wanna help create it?)
I have seen the future.
I attended church today at a church that. . .
Had over 2000 in attendance
Is less than five years old
Will start its fifth weekend service next weekend
Does not have a preaching pastor, and has no plans to get one
Uses Bill Hybels and John Ortberg (Willowcreek) videos for their teaching
Has a live band
Is an independent, autonomous church with local church pastors, small groups, a building and so forth.
The church is Heartland Community Church located in Rockford, IL. I think it represents an emerging paradigm of the church. I am predicting this kind of church will change our world as much as McDonalds changed our diets. I am not saying that every church will be video preaching 10 years from now–we don’t all eat McDonald hamburgers every meal. I am saying that over the next 10 years or so this will become a trend that will substantially change the life of church as we know it.
There are three main reasons I think this kind of church will take off:
It is of high quality.
It is reproducible
It is a proven model. Based on the God-given law of sowing and reaping, it should work anywhere.
It is all made possible through the technology of the video projector. With the presence of the video projector, you tend to look at the screen anyway. I attended Willowcreek last night and found myself looking at the big screen a good part of the time, even though Bill Hybels was standing right in front of me. Watching video on a twenty foot screen is a completely different experience than watching video on a 27 inch TV.
(By the way, weekly Willowcreek videos are not yet available. Heartland is able to get them out of a personal relationship between Bill Hybels and Heartland's Directional Pastor.)
This model is going to change the face of church planting. Heartland is essentially a church planting model. It may be the fastest church plant ever. I am sure it has grown much faster than Willowcreek itself. Mecklenburg Community Church in Charlotte, North Carolina is the only church plant I know of that would approach this speed of rapid take off. (Feel free to email me about this if you have better information.)
This model is going to solve the problem of overcrowding in many fast growing churches. Willowcreek is simultaneously experimenting with another model of satellite churches. These churches are not independent, autonomous churches, although they do have local church pastors who do assimilation and small groups. Second Baptist, Houston follows a similar model. Instead of building bigger and bigger barns, a better model may be to create satellites.
It is going to solve a huge problem for church goers looking for a church. Suppose you move to a different city. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to get plugged in right away to a church you knew you would like, instead of spending six months or a year trying various churches? We go to McDonalds, not because we love the hamburgers, but because we know we won’t hate them. In the same way, knowing what to expect in a predictable church experience will be desirable to many. People who move from Atlanta to Dallas will enjoy immediately plugging into a church that looks and feels like the church they came from in Atlanta.
This may be a model for some existing churches. Bill Hybels may be your next preacher. Some existing churches, upon the departure of their pastor, may choose to watch video on a big screen. This may be better than any option available for an interim. It may be a good enough model to stay with over the long haul.
Some people will deplore this, I am sure. I am sure some of you who read this will think this trend is awful. Although I like the idea, I am not trying to persuade you that it is wonderful. I am simply saying it is coming. What McDonalds did to Hamburgers and Best Buy did for electronics and Barnes and Noble did for books, churches like Heartland are going to do for church life.
The reason I am so sure of this is the same reason why McDonalds and Best Buy and Barnes and Noble work. They work because of the God given law of sowing and reaping. If you do certain things you are going to get predictable results. If McDonalds is successful in California, it proved to be successful in Chicago and Thailand. There are subtle adaptations. We sometimes have green chili hamburgers at our McDonalds in New Mexico and they had an outback burger at the McDonalds in Australia. Still, there is remarkable similarity between the McDonalds in Sydney and the McDonalds in Opelika, Alabama.
The other issue is an issue of quality. George Barna’s research indicates that two thirds of the people who attend church say they don’t sense the presence of God when they go. Let’s face it, many churches are sloppy in the way they do their work and the quality of the presentation is just not that great. I have listened to hundreds of Bill Hybels’ sermons. I have never heard one I thought was crummy. Not only is he very gifted, I suspect he has access to paid research assistants, probably several of them. Many mega-churches, at least, employ such help.
Willowcreek may or may not be the church that actually rolls this out. They have an inherent problem in that they are also trying to build the Willowcreek Association. I am wondering how Association churches will feel if Bill Hybels starts a church down the street. It may prove to be impossible to build the Willowcreek Association while promoting this model.
Usually, when a new technology or paradigm comes along, it is not the existing entities that jump in. The key players on the Internet are not the mainline brick and mortar business, they are businesses like Ebay and Amazon. Similarly, it may not be a mega-church at all that rolls this out, but rather someone outside spotlight at this time.
Somebody is going to reach a slew of people by figuring this model out. Someone is going to figure out how to launch thousands of churches with a completely reproducible model of video teaching on a big screen. You can decide whether launching these churches and reaching these people is a good thing or bad thing. I am telling you, it is coming.

Wednesday, April 25, 2007

The Dark Ages Part 5-Rick Warren the Pied Piper of Purpose

Rick Warren-

" I don’t normally think like an unbeliever. Worse than that, I tend to think like a pastor and that’s even farther removed from an unbeliever’s mind-set! That means I must intentionally change mental gears when seeking to relate to non-Christians.
If you look at most church advertising, it’s obvious that it was written from a believer’s viewpoint – not from the mind-set of the unchurched. When you see a church ad that announces, "Preaching the inerrant Word of God," who do you think that ad appeals to? Certainly not to unbelievers!
Personally, I consider the inerrancy of Scripture as a non-negotiable belief, but the unchurched don’t even understand the term. If you’re going to advertise your church, you must learn to think and speak like unbelievers. The spiritual terminology that Christians are familiar with is just gibberish to the unchurched"

Rick Warren states that "Personally, I consider the inerrancy of Scripture as a non-negotiable belief."

But it's my opinion that Rick Warren doesn't really believe this, his teaching contradicts his statements all the time. I believe Rick states this so he can remain popular with Christians.

The Bible not Rick Warren however teaches-

Romans 8:5 "
For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit."

Unbelievers and people like Rick Warren are spiritually blind-

Psa 82:5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

Prov 4:19 The way of the wicked is as darkness: they know not at what they stumble.
Prov 16:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. (Prov 14:12)

Jn 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned

Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Tit 1:15-16 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Jam 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Here are some things Rick Warren things are important-

Lighting has a profound effect on people's moods. Inadequate lighting dampens the spirit of a service. Shadows across a speaker’s face reduce the impact of any message.

My comments-Gee, golly the early services with Christians in the catacombs must really have sucked.

Where would you rather be?

Meeting with the early Christians or being entertained among unbelievers and people who think they are saved at Saddleback?

You decide.

Rick thinks sound systems are important-

Invest in the best sound system you can afford. If you’re trying to cut costs, do it in some other area. Don’t skimp here. Saddleback grew for 15 years without our own building, but we’ve always had a state-of-the-art sound system.
It doesn’t matter how persuasive the message is if people can’t hear it in a pleasing manner. A tinny, fuzzy sound system can undermine the most gifted musician and incapacitate the most profound preacher. And nothing can destroy a holy moment faster than a loud blast of feedback!
If you are a pastor, insist that your church purchase a lavaliere microphone so you are not handcuffed to the pulpit. Movement while speaking maintains attention.

My comments-Gee golly how do you think preachers like Jonathon Edwards ever got accross their message? Microphones were not even invented yet. During the period known as The great Awakening as many as 300,00 were preached to at a time without a sound system just the Holy Spirit.

Who do you want to lead you into all truth?

A great sound system or the Holy Spirit?

And yes I know bad sound systems can be annoying but where are your priorities?

Rick thinks seating is important-

"Both the comfort and the arrangement of your seating dramatically affect the mood of any service. The mind can only absorb what the seat can endure! Uncomfortable seating is a distraction that the Devil loves to use. If you can get away replacing the pews, I’d advise it. In today’s culture the only places people are forced to sit on benches are in church and the cheap bleacher section at ball games. People expect to have their own, individual chairs.
Personal space is highly valued in our society. This is why box seats are prized at stadiums. If people are forced to sit too close to each other, they get very uncomfortable. There should be at least 18 inches between people if you're using chairs and 21 inches between people if you're using pews."

My comments- Im literally speechless that so many follow this shallow man so I'll pass on comments here.

Rick Warren thinks temperature is important-

"I say this with the utmost conviction: The temperature can destroy the best planned service in a matter of minutes! When people are too hot or too cold they simply stop participating in a service. They mentally check-out and start hoping for everything to end quickly."

My comments-Gee golly I don't see how people are even saved in places like the Dominican Republic with their high heat and humidity in their country. Can you imagine people in these countries just thanking God they have a roof over their heads.

I think Rick should write a new book titled "AC driven life comfortable in your Christianity."

Rick Warren and clean restrooms-

"Visitors may forget your sermon but the memory of a foul smelling restroom lingers on ... and on ... and on! You can tell a lot about the morale of a church by checking out the quality of the restrooms."

My comments-No Im not going to rail on about clean restrooms. If your church has a restroom yes it should be clean. Again refer to my comments about third world countries like the Dominican Republic and other places. Hopefully you have had missionaries in your church speak about the conditions in other countries. Actually I heard one of Ricks sermons once and I thought it smelled funny and the bathroom where I was at was clean. Hmmn?

In summation what does the Bible teach about unbelievers and the church which is The Body of Christ.

Acts 2:21 "Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them ."

Acts 2:47 "praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.

Acts 4:32 "Now the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul; neither did anyone say that any of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common."

Now it is obvious to me that Rick Warren believes the Bible selectively. Pick and choose what verse is good for you.

Does he do this for the money and the fame he has established?

Only God knows that for sure.

The one thing for sure is Rick Warren has polluted many churches with his man centered ideas (that are apart from scripture) on how to get the numbers in your door's.

Rick builds on the straw that is his own genius.

Not the solid rock of scripture that is Jesus Christ.

Ricks methods and beliefs have created a new religion sprinkled with whatever will tickle a unbelievers ears.

Welcome to the New Dark Ages!


The bible

and (Rick Warrens site)

Wednesday, April 18, 2007

The New Dark Agres Part 4-Paul Proctor article

Pauls new article fits in with my new series. What I believe is a upcoming new Dark Ages (inspite of our advanced technology) has many tangents.
There are many things at work here.
Its not just, Emergent, Purpose Driven, Multi Sensory worship or Seeker Sensitive. Its a variety of different things.
I will try to address most of the deception in this series.
But there is a lot going on out there.
All of this seek's to dumb you down and take you away from Gods Word and the truth revealed only in scripture.

Here is Pauls article-


By Paul Proctor
April 18, 2007
Last week in my NewsWithViews column, I responded to the curious claims of a Christian Post reporter about alleged survey findings she highlighted from a LifeWay study in a couple of recent articles titled, "Most Adults Switch Churches to Flee Former Church." and "Most Church Switchers Choose Non-Traditional Worship," where she concluded that "More than one in five adults who switch to a new church move away from traditional worship..." and that "…most do not end up attending traditional services as they formerly did."
Knowing that this didn't sound right, I invited readers to email me personally with "the primary reason they left their former church and if they actively sought out and ended up in a more contemporary fellowship," to see for myself if the results would be anywhere near those cited in the Christian Post.
Now, before I go any further, let me just say, I don't put much stock in polls or surveys because they often promote consensus and group-think - teaching or implying that the herd is always right and that because of this we should follow wherever they lead - which is simply not the case. Jesus, as most of you know, preached the "narrow way" to eternal life as opposed to the "broad way," which, alongside the Word of God, renders consensus corrupt and therefore dangerous. So, regardless of the outcome of my little exercise here, the findings of this traditional versus contemporary survey are not to determine which is right or wrong - they are only to demonstrate how drastically different the results of one survey are from another. Absolute truth is found in scripture, not in surveys, opinions or polls.
I specifically asked that all "church switchers" who emailed me, keep their replies to only two-sentences - which most did. Others simply could not contain their anguish and frustration - elaborating at length about how they were shunned and abused at their former churches and what their former pastors, teachers, leaders and brethren refused to hear or address regarding drastic changes implemented there. I went ahead and logged their responses anyway because I understand in a very personal way what many of them have lived through - having had their concerns ignored - their motives questioned - their reputations trashed and, in some cases, their long-standing memberships revoked, simply because they spoke up and questioned the pastor and/or their church's new agenda.
I would like to take this opportunity to also apologize to each and every one of them who wrote in for not offering more encouragement and sympathy in my brief replies to their sends. Hopefully I can do that at another time. The influx of email was such that virtually all I could do for days was read each one sent - cut & paste their comments to a Word document - and then reply with: "Thanks for responding!" or something similar. I was a man on a mission and simply did not have the time or help to do much of anything else and get these results published - which many have apparently been waiting for, even though I never really claimed I'd reveal them.
Nevertheless, at this writing, I have received and read well in excess of 500 emailed responses to my article from Christians around the world - over 436 of which were from "church switchers" who took time to answer my two questions. Since I can't submit an article to for publication that is 61 pages and over 26,000 words long, because few would want to read it, I decided to instead share only the two emails I received from readers who seemed to prefer contemporary over traditional, even though their answers were somewhat vague and incomplete with respect to my questions.
That's right - there were only two who suggested they favored contemporary over traditional and only one of them said they left.
Here's what they wrote:
1. I became a Christian in 70 through contemporary youth worship, music and a result that is where I am comfortable and seem in my element. Warren and his book or anyone else had nothing to do with what I prefer in a worship service, just the complete freedom to worship God in praise and song.... which you cannot experience in a traditional service with please stand and sing number 315 in your hymn book etc.
2. I left because the particular church I was attending was more concerned with rituals and traditions than making disciples.
It should be noted that I did receive one email from a "church switcher" who wrote to say they had left both traditional and contemporary churches over the years for a variety of reasons - and there were several who left their churches for one reason or another but never actually mentioned whether they were traditional or contemporary. In addition, I did not define what "traditional" or "contemporary" was. After all, one man's "traditional" can occasionally be another man's "contemporary." I'm just using the same general terms that LifeWay and The Christian Post postulated.
However, according to the emails I received, the overwhelming majority of "church switchers" let me know that they had left to find a more traditional church because of three things:
1. Rick Warren's teachings and growing influence at their former church.
2. The Purpose Driven agenda had recently been implemented at their former church.
3. Their former church had become too contemporary.
There were also numerous people who made it clear that because they could not find a traditional church or one anywhere in their vicinity that wasn't Purpose Driven, they were not going to church anymore or were simply worshipping and studying the Bible at home.
Other reasons given for their leaving included: former churches had gone liberal, seeker sensitive, CGM, church growth methodology, Willow Creek, Emergent, new age, Alpha, Prayer of Jabez, teaching heresy, playing loud music, rock and roll, preaching watered-down message, not being fed spiritually, the Word of God was replaced with jokes, stories, drama, psychology and social gospel, the full counsel of God was not being preached, the doctrine was not sound, unbiblical teachings prevailed in Sunday school, pastor preached from The Message Bible, no sense of reverence, pastor preached topically rather than "expositionally," no hymns were sung, only praise ditties performed, depravity and debt-heavy building programs ensued, etc, etc, etc… many things I personally believe are directly related to the top three reasons.
So, as I predicted in last week's article, my findings were vastly different from those reported in the Christian Post. This effort of mine was obviously not a comprehensive or in-depth survey or study - just a couple of plain and simple questions posed on the internet to anyone from anywhere who cared to respond.

And what a response I got!
Still, nagging questions remain:
Why did The Christian Post leave Rick Warren and "The Purpose Driven Life" completely out of their articles on this highly controversial subject when he is such a big part of it and is a regular on their own front page? And, why did so many who wrote me state or suggest in one way or another, a preference for the traditional - most of whom said they fled newly-transformed contemporary churches for more traditional ones - while The Christian Post reported most "church switchers" are going the other way?

Interesting, isn't it?
I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions.
"But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived." - 2nd Timothy 3:13
© 2007 Paul Proctor - All Rights Reserved

Monday, April 16, 2007

The New Dark Ages Part 3-Drumming Up "Jesus"

I love Roger Oaklands article I really do. And when I first received this article this morning I kinda winced.

Another slam drums, drums are of the devil article, please Roger don't let it be so.

Then I read the article and I totally agree with it.

I believe Roger goes to Calvary Chapel churches which of course use drums in their service's.
Drums can be used to manipulate people. I wrote about this in my book "Pa$$ The Plate and Let Us Prey."
I remember playing in churches and the praise and worship leader would get a signal from the pastor to get things moving.
Bamm we were into the Pentecostal Two Step beat.
The pastor would give people a false sense of God.

When it was just some stirred up emotions.

The preacher would then preach on tithing for his own personal gain using the heightened emotions as a catalyst.

Ive never been part of a drum circle Ive seen what this can do in countries like Brazil and Haiti.

Now they are doing this in churches.

Why am I not surprised.

Here is one more quote of value since we are speaking about music.

"Though music can and does engender mystical experiences, true spiritual feelings do not reside in any music per se. When artificially induced, human feelings can be a distraction from worshipping Almighty God. The attention of worshippers can be turned upon themselves and how they feel in a particular moment of ecstasy. Godly music on the other hand, draws people's attention off of themselves and turns their hearts toward God and the wondrous redemption wrought in, by and through the Lord Jesus Christ. In and through spiritual music, believers can find relief and deliverance from sinful emotions and fleshly appetites that can vex their souls. Godly songs help to rescue our emotions from whatever we might be feeling at any given moment in time, as those songs turn our minds and hearts toward Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit all the while bearing witness to him as the words of the music help to authenticate Gospel and the Word within our souls. "

By Pastor Larry DeBruyn

Enjoy Rogers article.-Tim

Drumming Up "Jesus"

Commentary by Roger Oakland
Reaching our present generation seems to be the catch phrase that many emergent church leaders are promoting. In order to be effective in reaching the postmodern mindset, it is necessary to stimulate the senses by providing sounds, sights, smells and tastes that will lead the participant into a sensational experience.
Studying the Bible verse by verse is no longer a prerequisite for mature spiritual growth according to many emergent church leaders. Instead, innovative methods are being promoted to get in tune with “God” or get closer to “God” by re-introducing techniques practiced by the pagans. These are methods that bring instant gratification and sensation. Contact with the spirit world is guaranteed for spiritual seekers who want to have an encounter with “Jesus” by experimenting with the mystical and the metaphysical.
In order to document what I am saying, consider the following news item titled “Feeling the beat: The spiritual side of drum circles.” The article, describes how adults at an Episcopal church in Richmond, Virginia are being instructed how to “drum up” a higher spirituality:
With the skill of a seasoned grand marshal, Cory Blake takes the discordant pieces and leads the group into an amazingly alluring beat. Listen for a few minutes and you understand why shamans use drums to lure themselves into trances. "It's a contemplative tradition," Blake says of the drum circle he's leading. "It speaks directly to the intelligence of the body." [1]
Since Richard Forster and others have led the way for the popularization of the “contemplative tradition” in the name of spiritual formation in countless churches professing to be Christian, practices like shamanistic drumming are promoted as an excellent way to get into an altered state of consciousness in the name of Christ. However, while tuning one’s brain into a hypnotic beat of a drum may “speak directly to the intelligence of the body,” getting into a mindless trance can be lethal for one’s soul.
While some emergent leaders might consider the “drumming” at the Church of the Holy Comforter in Richmond a bit extreme, it will only be a matter of time before it becomes widely accepted. Apparently “drumming” is a great doorway for ecumenical harmony. As the article states:
(Drumming) also speaks to the simplicity of a good beat -- and the way something as simple as a hand brushed against the skin of a conga drum can transcend denominational and cultural boundaries. [2]
The “drumming circle” at “Church of the Holy Comforter” in the west end of Richmond was founded by Regena Stith. In an interview she stated:
"A drum circle really is what it says it is. It's a gathering of people in a circle with drums. It's really a very ancient form of expression. You move out of your head."
Stith first experienced the power of drums in the late 1990s during a yoga retreat in Massachusetts. She came home and announced to her husband, "I need to get a drum." [3]
Has Christianity “gone wild” or are we in the last days and the grand delusion is underway? Why are professing Christians buying drums to drum up spiritual experiences? Why are they not reading the Bible that warns about doctrines of demons?
Will the new reformation modeled by the emerging church that promotes pagan spiritual experiences capable of moving one’s mind out of one’s head, send followers to heaven or hell? Will someone please stand up and demand a reality check?
In the future there will be many more ways to seduce the masses into believing they have had a mystical experience with God by the promotion of ways and means to contact the gods. Without God’s grace and the scriptures as our guideline for discernment, it will be difficult not to be led astray.
In order to remain steadfast in the faith, one must have a biblical faith that is based on what God has revealed in His Word. Otherwise, the drum beat being tapped out by the pied piper of deception, will lead even those who have believed, down a path paved by the strong delusion the Bible foretells will happen in the Last Days.

[1] Zachary Reid,, March 10, 2007,!news&s=1045855934842
[2] Ibid.
[3] Ibid.

Sunday, April 15, 2007

The New Dark Ages Part Two-Ginghamsburg,Kim Miller and the origins of Multi Sensory Worship

2:Thess 2:3
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first,

I have been to many different churches in my life.
Some good, some bad.
Word of Faith, Independent Fundamental Baptist, TBN churches been to many different kind of churches with different expressions of the Christian faith.
Some false some true to the faith.

Ginghamsburg is the only place where I have actually walked out of the church in the middle of the service because it was so bad.

Ginghamsburg is right down I75 from the place I live here in Ohio.
I guess the closest thing you could compare it to is the circus at Saddleback in California.

Ginghamsburg is run by businessman Mike Slaughter.
Mike is very good at what he does and is popular around these parts he puts on a heck of a show.
When I walked into the service (I walked out of) I was greeted by a honky tonk piano player in the building lobby and a cookie set up comparable to something you would see on a cruise ship.
This was during Christmas time several years ago.
Mike was speaking on how Jesus was surrounded by poop (thats the word he used) at his birth.
There was really no point to Mikes speech which segued into some clips of National Lampoons Christmas vacation movie attempting to make some sort of point.
That was enough for me.
So I stood up (I was in the front row-gulp) and removed my family from this place.
Two things still remain ingrained in my mind-
As I stood up I saw the look of the crowd.
Mesmerised by Mike it was almost like looking out a crowd during a Amway rally.
Then I noticed the two Secret Service looking guys with in ear pieces who followed me and my family at a distance all the way to the parking lot.
Like Lot escaping Sodom and Gomorrah I never looked back.
A couple of observations here.
Ginghamsburg has a great state of the art sound system and a very talented band.
Very nicely done entertainment disguised as worship.
Sorry folks you just cant take secular songs and Christanize them.
That does not honor God and is a very lazy cheap trick, even though it does get the audience into their flesh and on their feet..

Now on to Kim Miller creative director for Ginghamsburg.
As much as I can tell the term multi sensory worship comes from Kim.
I could be wrong but regardless where this originated at the term is driven by the entertainment staff at Ginghamsburg.

A couple weeks ago I purchased Kims book "Designing Worship".
The book speaks for itself and I'll just let you judge the quotes and elborate on some point's just briefly.
As the deception and the great falling increases Ive found that new agers no longer even try to mask what they are doing, these quotes will tell their own story.

Under the title of the book is this "creating and intergrating powerful God experiences."

On the copyright page it states under Group (the publishers)
Group resources actually work- (I bet they do)
Under there acroymn for REAL one is Experiential-"What learners experience through discussion and action sticks with them up to 9 times longer than what they simply read or hear.

My question to you is does the Bible teach that?
Does the Bible teach experience over reading and hearing Gods Word?
You need to go check your Bible on that one.
Most Christians have had a big God experience, some however have not.
And the big experience is never the norm and you can see in Gods Word that these experiences are never initiated are created by something man does.
But always 100% of the time are initiated by God Himself.

Now you have places that manufacture God experiences. I can assure you probably 98% of the time they are false.
What do I base this on?
They are being created by man not God.

Here are some book quotes-judge for yourselves.

Page 67 under a media servant profile for Steve Crichton-"Steve dons a headset. With graphic cue script in hand, Steve sets out to do his "Jesus job." As a weekend media director, he's calling out cameras, cues and shots while an unsuspecting congregation worships and remains "in the God moments."

Chapter 9 is titled "Four Mantras for the Mission"
Page 90-
"All four of these mantras have guided me as I've worked with people, projects, and God possibilities. Remembering them has been so very freeing as I make daily decisions that will have eternal impact." Now whether I'm casting roles for a children's musical or designing a special altar for a 9/11 anniversary, I hear God say, "Kim, just work inside of who you are; tell the truth! Do the right thing, not the expected thing. I have given you all authority-for heavens sake...go! when we ignore these four mantras, we find that we have music without passion, media without power, and messages without purpose. I dont know anyone who wants to be part of a mediocre movement. " end quote

For those of you who do not know what a mantra is here is the definition taken from a Hindu American website.
(The term mantra is not a Christian term and cannot be molded into one)

"Mantra- A sound, syllable, word or phrase endowed with spiritual power, usually drawn from scripture. A mantra focuses the mind toward spiritual progress. "
Definition taken from the Hindu American website.

Again using a mantra is not a Christian practice it is a Hindu one. The scripture spoken of above is not Biblical scripture but Hindu writings. You cannot take a practice from Hinduism and use it and expects results from our God.
Our God does not honor pagan practices like those Kim Miller uses and the fruit will not be that of true Christianity.

Pagan practices such as the use of mantras is not a true practice.
In John 4:23-24 Jesus said that
"the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth" (verses 23, 24).

In conclusion when Rick Warren decided to start a new business he calls church he went out and polled the unsaved on what they wanted to see in a church.
This worked great, Rick feed their flesh, and benefited greatly both in fame and finance.
Businessman Mike Slaughter has done the same here in the Midwest.
Do we need to feed the flesh of the unsaved?

You will need to decide if you want to be part of false, manufactured signs and wonders or not.

Here is what Gods Word states.
Gal 5:16-21
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.For what the flesh desires is opposed to the Spirit, and what the Spirit desires is opposed to the flesh; for these are opposed to each other, to prevent you from doing what you want.But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

2 Corinthians 7:14
"And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.

Luke 11:35
"Therefore take heed that the light which is in you is not darkness"

PS Kim Millers book is endorsed by New Ager/ Gnostic Leonard Sweet
From back cover
" Finally, a resource that hits the Trifecta of Worship-Message, Music, Media-for all sized churches. Each 'God Experience' bought me across faith's finish line with new energy and power and passion."
-Leonard Sweet

You will one day need to decide whether you will continue to be part of this ever growing deception or not.
I pray the Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth.

Next article will be on those who promote occult practices such as Dan Kimball.

The New Dark Ages Part One-Setting The Stage

2 Thess 2:3 "Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first,

Before I start this series which (God willing) will go on until the end of April I want to set this up properly.
What was the Dark Ages?
To keep it simple and for the sake of space I will try to simplify.
Constantine converted the Empire to Christianity(merging church and state) the Roman Empire had already passed its peak.
Then it became Christian and it entered a thousand years of ignorance, squalor and filth, dragging the civilization of the whole of Europe down with it. The world had entered The Dark Ages.
When Constantine I adopted Christianity in 313, he among other things hoped that the new religion would help unify the Empire. However, such expectations were threatened by the appearance of heresies inside of the Church. Constantine felt compelled to involve himself with these doctrinal or disciplinary struggles, as in the case of the Donatists or the Arians. He tried to enforce decisions reached by the Church by banishing obstinate opponents - clergy and laity - of these decisions. Non-Christians however were not concerned by these measures. Some of his successors, while leaning to the sides of the Arians, increased their use of force in Church matters, regularly banishing bishops from their sees. Theodosius, an unequivocal supporter of Orthodox Christianity, also made Christianity the official religion of the Empire.

To make this all simple learning outside of what the pope, priest or what the Magesterium taught was punishable by death. You were not even allowed to read the Bible for yourself. As well as most folks could not read so they relied on symbols portrayed in the church windows of stain glass or the Stations of the Cross to communicate scriptural truth to them.
They had to rely totally on whoever was teaching for truth and could not be a faithful berean.

Acts 17:11 "These were more fair–minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.
In the Dark Ages if you questioned the authority of the church you could be killed.

Rather than criticizing these early believers for "checking out" the veracity of what had been taught to them by the apostle Paul, this verse actually praises them for doing so. And while it is clear from the Greek text that the Bereans are being applauded here primarily for their enthusiastic acceptance of the Gospel, this verse also - so far from condemning them for a lack of trust - actually commends them for their action. This verse plainly approves the practice of taking the time and interest to consult the scriptures in order to establish the veracity of what is being taught. We find this to be a most reasonable approach, for:

If what is taught is really true, then the scriptures will clearly confirm it.

It is true that taking advantage of accurate Bible teaching is an important part of the believer's spiritual growth. Indeed, that is the whole point of this ministry. Furthermore, the provision of Bible teaching is an undisputed ministry of God the Holy Spirit (Eph.4:11-16). At the same time, however, it is the responsibility of the listener to compare what is being taught with the Bible. To be sure, this should be done in a spirit of humility (as the Bereans demonstrated), but it should be done. No one who teaches the Bible should have a problem with this, for such a procedure is really the only way to keep everyone honest. As believers in Jesus Christ, we must ultimately place our faith in God and in the Word of God - Jesus, the living Word, and in the Bible, the written Word - not in man's words.

There is a lot of ugly history here but what bought Christianity OUT of the Dark Ages was Christian being allowed to read their Bibles for themselves to find out what was true.

Let me make one more point here because there is going to be another aspect to this series.

And that is Gnosticism.
What is Gnosticism?
(from Greek gnosis, knowledge) is a term created by modern scholars to describe a diverse, syncretistic religious movement, especially in the first centuries of the common era. Gnostics believed in gnosis, the knowledge of God enabled by secret teachings. Some Gnostics considered themselves Christian, identifying Jesus as the divine spirit incarnated to bring gnosis to humanity. Other Gnostics were not even nominally Christian, and several Gnostic texts appear to have no Christian element at all. Still others were certainly devout mystic ascetics who worshipped Jesus and lived in their own unique ways according to His teachings.
Gnostics taught that humans were divine souls trapped in a material world created by an evil spirit, the demiurge. In order to free oneself from the evil, material world, one needed gnosis, or spiritual knowledge. Initiates were instructed in secret teachings to help them achieve gnosis. God was depicted as a pleroma composed of multiple manifestations.
Because the textual evidence comes from the first few centuries AD, many scholars have assumed that Gnosticism did not predate this period, but earlier historians of religion saw it as an outgrowth of ancient mystical traditions in Asia, especially Iran.

Some Christians today such as author of Quantum Spirituality Leonard Sweet is textbook Gnostic.
We would call Len a New Ager.
You cant really read Quantum Spirituality and come to any logical conclusion that Leonard Sweet is a Christian.

As I write this series we need to be reminded (myself included) that the Lord commanded us to love our neighbor.
So we need to continue to love those discussed here even as we expose them and their false deception.

Next article

Ginghamsburg, Kim Miller and the origins of multi sensory worship-Experience based worship.

Wednesday, April 11, 2007

From The Berean Call

[TBC: The following comments sent by a pastor are certainly worthy of consideration.] I think, in my opinion that many evangelicals today, including a vast amount of our Beloved [denomination], has drifted away from the safe moorings of God's Holy Word. Moreover, I have watched for the past 40 years and heard, "the incessant call for change in our Churches, so we changed".

Into what?
We have all been seduced into politics in church, and mystical teachings, [charismatic extremism], and hundreds of Bible translations until the word is diluted and ineffective. We are all, very off base. We should all "repent and renounce our willingness to compromise."

I have friends who are very high ranking SBC folks-who are now attending, "Desert Father's Mystical Retreats", Roman Catholic teachings, and learning Transcendtal Meditation-TM, mantras, and other Zen and Buddhist teachings. The things that I say, may surprise you some, but you know, this is hitting the bull's eye and where many of our Churches are stagnated in the slough of despond-And are stuck in this morbid mode of religious apostasy. God forbid!

Beloved, we are in a pickle. In fact, our very own people are like termites eating away the once solid foundation built by men and women of integrity. Beloved Ones, it is imperative that we repent and return to the Lord, lest we continue in the deceptions and delusions of our current leadership and trends today.

New article-Church Switchers,Change Agents-Driven Surveys

From my friend and brother in the Lord -Paul Proctor


By Paul Proctor
April 11, 2007
According to Audrey Barrick, reporter for The Christian Post, "The top reason adults switch to a new church is to flee their previous church, a recent study found."
That's news?
Armed with stats from a recent LifeWay Research study, she continues to state the obvious in an article titled: "Most Adults Switch Churches to Flee Former Church." And, after citing numerous reasons and alleged percentages, almost as an afterthought, she finally gets around to the hot button issue - the real reason people are changing churches:
Some church switchers leave because of too many changes in the church.
"These church switchers leave because they are unhappy with changes in the overall direction of the church," said Scott McConnell, associate director of LifeWay Research. "Respondents had the opportunity to select specific changes they did not like, such as worship style, teachings, or a staff member leaving, but the largest proportion selected too many changes in general - the culmination of many changes in the previous church they did not like."
Apparently it doesn't matter if the troublesome changes were scriptural or not - just that there were too many of them, which reminded me of the 5 part series from titled, "How To Transition an Established Church," by Chuck McAlister, where he carefully points out in Part 4:
This will be, by far, the most controversial part of the transition process. People have strong preferences in regard to worship styles to which they assign spiritual significance. This part of the transition process must be handled delicately over an extended period of time or you could sabotage the whole process… You cannot jerk a transitioning church into a new worship style. You must practice extreme patience to help your church make the necessary change to a worship style that will directly impact those who do not know God.
In the Christian Post article, Ms. Barrick also noted the importance of the change "process:"
LifeWay Vice President Brad Waggoner found the study results encouraging… Waggoner noted, "A common mistake of pastors, staff or even lay leaders in the church is attempting to initiate change without a clear understanding of the process one should follow."
And what "process" would that be, Mr. Waggoner? - Chuck McAlister's frog-in-the-kettle technique from Rick Warren's website?
Speaking of Rick Warren - what might be more telling than anything, is the fact that his infamous name never comes up in the article, when he is probably more responsible than anyone for changing today's Church. If too many changes are causing people to leave, why didn't Barrick mention The Purpose Driven Life or Warren's 40 Days of Purpose program in her report - especially since Warren is a regular contributor to The Christian Post. But then, maybe that's why his name is conspicuously absent.
You see, if you read Barrick's follow-up on the subject titled, "Most Church Switchers Choose Non-Traditional Worship," you'll notice a bias beginning to show.
Here's how that article begins:
More than one in five adults who switch to a new church move away from traditional worship, a study revealed.
In a series of studies on adults who switch churches, LifeWay Research found "church switchers" often choose a new church that is different in several ways from their previous church. And most do not end up attending traditional services as they formerly did.
Did you catch that?
First she says only "one of five" (that's 20%) "move away from traditional worship" - then she says MOST do not end up "attending traditional services," suggesting the majority go contemporary. Now, which is it? It can't be both 20% and "most." But, unless you catch that subtle contradiction, you're left believing "traditional" is history.
Of course, Warren is not mentioned in this article either, but more importantly, how can anyone choose a traditional church when there are so few left to join? With the help of none other than LifeWay Christian Resources, The Purpose Driven Life became a manically marketed monster that virtually swallowed up the Church of the free world leaving only a comparatively few traditional churches in its wake - so, what choice do Christians really have anymore unless of course they go home and worship there?
Maybe LifeWay considers staying home switching to non-traditional worship too.
"Clearly, selecting a new church with a more contemporary worship style is a current trend," said Scott McConnell, associate director of LifeWay Research, in the report. "These changes are intentional, as indicated by eighty percent finding worship style an important factor in selecting a new church."
See, I have a problem with this idea of contemporary worship being considered a "trend," considering it has been so heavily promoted by those with a vested interest in change. In other words: Are these "intentional" changes the cause or the effect? And what role has LifeWay played in this alleged "trend" toward change?
If a record promoter repeatedly pays radio stations around the country to play certain new songs over the air until they climb the charts and become big hits, has the system been undermined at the expense of the listener? And should the popularity or "success" of such songs be considered a legitimate trend in listener taste? In the music business, buying radio play is called "payola" - and it's illegal for reasons I don't think need to be explained here.
Frankly, I have to question the overall objectivity and legitimacy of the LifeWay "study," because, as I recall, the last time I entered one of their retail outlets looking for a book written by noted Warren critic, John MacArthur, I had to walk around their Purpose Driven Life display near the front door just to get to anything else in the store. It took awhile, but I finally found one or two copies of MacArthur's latest buried behind the books of others as if they were ashamed of him or something. I might add, it took the assistance of a store employee to locate them - and even she had no idea who John MacArthur was. In fact, I had to repeat his name once or twice before she could begin searching for his book. And, none of his earlier works were visible anywhere either. I guess he's just not what they'd call "an agent of change."
Now, having said that, earlier in the year I went into that same LifeWay store with my wife who happened to be looking for something new to read at the time. A friend of ours from church, who worked there, could simply not shut up about this fabulous new book by Pastor Rick Warren called, "The Purpose Driven Life." Out of an entire store, containing thousands of books, his was apparently the only one she could bring herself to recommend. It was like the woman was hired to do nothing but sell that book! We kept telling her "no thanks" but she kept plugging it like that was all they had for sale!
So, is LifeWay Christian Resources really the place to go to get an honest assessment of why people are leaving their churches today? - an organization that has aggressively promoted changing the church at every turn while one of their own research directors readily admits that too many changes have been made?
I mean, LifeWay's own Vice President was quoted in the first article as saying:
"Let me insert upfront that change is unavoidable and even necessary for continued church effectiveness. However, the manner in which change is approached is crucial."
Now THAT'S what I'd call "intentional." This doesn't sound like someone accepting change - it sounds more like someone insisting on it. Furthermore, how can people leaving their churches in unprecedented numbers be considered "effectiveness" unless their disgruntled departure is your objective and agenda?

Barrick closes the second article with this about LifeWay's study:
Results are based on 415 surveys conducted among church switchers whose latest church change was for reasons other than a residential move.
Well, my Reader's List is quite a bit larger than 415 people, many of whom are themselves "church switchers;" so I think I'll ask them and any other evangelical evacuees reading this commentary, to email me at: and tell me, in just a couple of sentences, the primary reason they left their former church and if they actively sought out and ended up in a more contemporary fellowship.

Again, only two sentences, please!
Don't need to hear the whole story for my little survey - just the main reason you left.
Something tells me my findings will be vastly different from LifeWay's.
Now, why do you suppose that is?
I guess I'm just not what they'd call "an agent of change" either.
"Cursed be he that doeth the work of the LORD deceitfully…" - Jeremiah 48:10
© 2007 Paul Proctor - All Rights Reserved

Sunday, April 08, 2007

No Sense Of Smell

By my friend and brother in the Lord- Mike Oppenheimer

No Sense of Smell
What I’m writing here is in behalf of many ministries and pastors who agree and are concerned about what is taking place in the church.
2 Cor. 2:14-17: “Now thanks be to God who always leads us in triumph in Christ, and through us diffuses the fragrance of His knowledge in every place. For we are to God the fragrance of Christ among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing. To the one we are the aroma of death leading to death, and to the other the aroma of life leading to life. And who is sufficient for these things? For we are not, as so many, peddling the word of God; but as of sincerity, but as from God, we speak in the sight of God in Christ.”
God speaks of our prayers as incense in the Old Testament, and the sacrifices as a sweet smelling aroma unto Him. We are His ambassadors to the world and we are a family, His body on earth. Though we may not all meet together, we are united in the Spirit as we worship Him in spirit and in truth.
If this is what the church is supposed to be united in both the spirit and truth why do we disagree-why are there conflicts in the church? The answer to this question is simple yet weighty- It is written that, “My people perish from a lack of knowledge.” It should be apparent to people who are observing what is taking place in the church and understanding it from Biblical perspective that there is a lot of garbage coming inside our doors. The smell is permeating God’s house and there are only a few that notice it and even fewer that want to say or do something about it. Our indifference and lack of will is what is preventing us from a God sent revival.
In 2 Cor. 2:14-17 the fragrance Paul is speaking of is one of knowledge; we are the ones who bring this knowledge of God’s grace and the truth to people. If they accept the gospel of salvation it is a sweet smell to them. It they reject the gospel, it becomes odious to them. If your life is not being a sacrifice for Christ it may not smell so good. This is why we have only a small influence in society.
We should all follow the example of Mary, Lazarus’ sister who sacrificed her costly perfume for Jesus’ burial and it says “the house was filled with the fragrance of the oil” (John 12:3). The oil was a type of the anointing on Jesus who was to be crucified. The more we are dead to our self the more alive Christ is in us. But this is the more difficult part, where knowledge becomes wisdom as it is applied in our lives.
Have you ever had a cold where you could not smell or taste what you are eating? Well the church has got a cold that is affecting her taste for good food and she is ready to eat any bland food served on the platter. In fact, too many drink the skim milk of men-they do not know what the pure milk of the word tastes like anymore.
The Bible tells us that we were all like sheep that have gone astray. We are sheep that are to be led by the good Shepherd. The Lord used sheep in a number of illustrations and for good reason, because as sheep we can still go astray after we believe. There are other illustrations that are used as well:
Proverbs 27:8: “Like a bird that wanders from its nest is a man who wanders from his place.” Some teachers that were once grounded in Scripture have been influenced away from their place called home.
Many think they are immune to bad influences and leave themselves wide open to them. We are to have discretion with whom we associate with, who we learn from and submit ourselves to. No true minister is to befriend false teachers, defend them or contribute to their ministry. The simple reason is that once you begin to compromise in this area, you have nothing to say, you have lost your salt. It won’t take long before you become one with them and blinded to what you once knew. One of the best examples is found in the New Testament, Barnabas; he was carried away with Peter’s hypocrisy that compromised him and others (Gal.2). Leaven never affects a few but the many.
Chasing down trends has become a trend in itself. People sit and wait for the newest thing they can introduce to their church for church improvement or the real reason- for church growth. Growing attendance and growing spiritually are two different matters. Super-size is in and it is beneath the notice of today’s Mega leaders if you do not have this kind of attendance. So they desire more and follow the one who wanders from its nest. Like birds, they chirp whatever is said and follow the bird droppings of big bird.
The followers parrot whatever their teacher has said, never understanding that they are submitting to him instead of Jesus. For Jesus said: "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other” (Matt. 6:24). People are following men and their words over Jesus and His Word.
The world is convinced the devil is imaginary and is a mythical creature, who wears a red suit. In the same manner a good portion of the Christian church has been convinced to accept anyone who is successful, that wears an expensive suit (or aloha shirt) behind the pulpit as teaching the truth about God. To the listeners of these teachers it has become more offensive to question what they are saying than it is for spreading heresy. If someone accuses their teacher of saying something wrong, they are pre conditioned to act like Pavlov’s dogs and attack them, labeling them with every derogatory term or word in the book (and some not in the book).
We are to be listening to the content, we do not have our eyes on the messenger. Is it Biblical teaching or is it from man. It happened to Israel- Ezek 22:27-28 "Her princes in her midst are like wolves tearing the prey, to shed blood, to destroy people, and to get dishonest gain. "Her prophets plastered them with untempered mortar, seeing false visions, and divining lies for them, saying, 'Thus says the Lord GOD,' when the LORD had not spoken.” We are told to be aware of men rising among us to lead us astray by speaking perverse things. Paul warned the Ephesian church specifically about this (Acts 20:29). Perverse is the Greek word diastrepho-1) to distort, to turn aside to oppose, to plot against the saving purposes and plans of God. 2) to turn aside from the right path, to pervert, to corrupt.
On the other hand he commended a certain group of people above all the others, the Bereans (Acts 17). They searched the Scriptures daily- not just once in a while or not at all. Unfortunately, the emphasis today is on “not at all.”
Like a bad cold, their followers ears are stuffed with the teachers words and cannot hear anything spoken to the contrary, even the pure word. They have become mentally challenged on the truth, rationalizing that because they speak in tongues they are filled with the Spirit and anyone who disagrees with their teacher is not. They label anyone who disagrees with them a Pharisee, they quickly become disrespectful, intolerant to any of the facts. This is no exaggeration, as I have received letters for years on these matters and this is the attitude of too many in the church. All one needs to do is ask- is this a Biblical teaching found in the Bible, can it be proven to be the correct interpretation? Once they are willing to examine it thoroughly they usually come to a different conclusion. But the inquiry of teaching becomes the roadblock to knowing truth.
The main contention between the Pharisees and Jesus were all the extra Biblical laws they were practicing as God’s law. It was their added revelations to Moses that they enforced upon people to obey which got Jesus very angry. The Pharisees wanted him to obey the elder’s laws- their laws (Mk.7 the tradition of the fathers). Jesus would not submit to them at all.
Jesus defended the people against the false teachers of his day. He stood in the gap for them. He corrected them by teaching them what is right and true, often right in front of the false teachers. And when necessary he got in their religious faces. It cost Him His life, though He was going to lay it down for sinful man; that would include them.
The religious leaders had all the money (it says they loved money) they had a monopoly on power and because of this they had great influence on the religious population. Sound familiar? If they were here today (and they are) they would make sure they stand out on the TV. They would make sure everyone sees them pray in public, their giving would be made known, and they would exert their authority and make disciples of themselves. They would enforce their position by making sure the people side with them. They would connive the people to give them money to support their work, using false promises to ingratiate themselves with their audience. Not much has changed only the names and means. All of these qualities were found in the religious sect of Jesus’ day.
It’s hard to defend Christianity when they see the TV evangelists preach money as their gospel. To the unbelievers that watch them on TV they think all of the church is like them. It is they that have brought the church in disrepute. And this is where the latter portion of 2 Cor. 2:17 is applied- "For we are not, as so many, peddling the word of God; but as of sincerity, but as from God, we speak in the sight of God in Christ.”
When someone is told about their teacher being wrong that they have been learning from for years they immediately start a comparison list of what you have done and what they have done.
We do well to remember what Paul wrote: “For we dare not class ourselves or compare ourselves with those who commend themselves. But they, measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise” (2 Cor. 10:12)
Their defense is often like Simon the sorcerers followers in Acts 8:9-11: “this man is the great power of God.” The Lord’s apostles wrote us that we would know who is with him or against him, NOT by their works, NOT by their power (Mt.7:21), but by their doctrine and lifestyle and love for the brethren (1 Tim.4:6; 1 Pt.2:21; 2 Thess.3:7, 9). God does not pour out His Spirit and power on those who teach falsely, they must repent first and correct their teachings and practices. There is no power from God unless one is under God’s authority. Which means they are servants to him first and then to his people, they are not masters (Jn.15:20; Mk.9:35; Col.1:7,4:7).
What’s the Real problem?
Too many are unaccountable for what they are teaching. They are hurting people’s lives both spiritually and physically. Because of this, so many are depressed, disillusioned, and are losing hope. We love people enough not to sit idly by but to be active in helping them understand what has taken place and help them get freedom that is in Christ Jesus. Love is an action, a commitment and in this case to the word of God which is the truth and to God’s people.
They don’t defend Christ when he is mocked or ridiculed by the world but they do defend their teachers WHEN THEY ARE QUESTIONED OR EXPOSED. It is a form of idolatry to follow man over Jesus and the word of God that is truth.
There are too many Christians that look with disdain on those who publicly defend the Christian faith. For numerous reasons, they have been convinced that we should not have a say about anything. What if the early Church lived by their example against the heresies that arose? We certainly would not have any Christianity today.
Did you ever read a review of a product before you purchased it? Maybe you wanted to buy a refrigerator or a car. Did you not appreciate that someone took the time to look at it in detail to prevent you from losing your money. Of course you did.
People refuse to open their eyes to see, their ears to hear. Go drive down the road with your eyes close and see if you don’t get into an accident. In fact anything that impairs your seeing can bring about an undesirable circumstance.
What if you had a babysitter for your child and someone knew he was molesting him, would you want him to tell you? Of course you would. it would be for the child's protection.
Silence is part of the problem, silence on matters that are destructive to peoples lives. While people affirm they love Jesus, but where is the hatred for things Jesus hates? (Psalm 97:10-11; John 12:23-26; Lk.16:13; Heb.1:9; Rev.2:6,15). Where is the love for people to help them by telling them the truth? Sitting by idly and watching people get spiritually massacred is not love. Jesus didn't and neither did those who were trained by him, they spoke up. And that is why we speak.
This lack of discernment and standing up for the Lord reminds me of Cain, who said, "Am I my brother's keeper? Cain’s response is defiant. He was saying to God I have no obligation, he was accusing God- saying you take care of him knowing full well what he did.
Yet we are commanded James 5:19-20: “My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.”
God tells us to judge teaching, man tells us not to. Who are we going to obey? These scriptures on judging are not bible dressing…
God wants US to judge those inside the Church, He will take care of those outside.
1 Cor 5:11-13: “But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner-- not even to eat with such a person. For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? But those who are outside God judges. Therefore "put away from yourselves the evil person."
“Test ALL THINGS; hold fast that which is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21).
“Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine” (2 Timothy 4:2).
“And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them” (Ephesians 5:11).
“Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints” (Jude 3).
We do not live in the former Soviet Union; we are allowed to speak our mind before God and men. If you tell people its wrong to question and challenge something openly you have either been taught wrong, are naïve to what the Bible actually says or you are intentionally having them disobey the Bibles commands. Either way you are wrong.
Our mild exhortation to the followers of these men is nothing compared to the divisive effect they have on the church. Many of us have had enough of the nonsense- the pervasiveness of false teaching from our pulpits, on our radio and our TV (emphasis on our) has gone on far too long without a strong voice of challenge.
Show us where the apostle Paul, Peter or John taught the church that we are little gods, that we have great spiritual powers like Jesus that can defy or change nature by our speaking. That we will take over the earth as the Church before Christ comes. That Jesus became sinful on the cross and went to hell to be tortured by Satan.
Since they have taught these heresies publicly there is an obligation to Biblically refute them publicly. Analyzing statements and published works are in obedience to the Word of God. Men who have something to lose will always deny people the right to examine their teachings, they intimidate them into silence.
If you allow others to tell you how to think on something without ever looking into it yourself to come to your own conclusion- you have accepted a cult mindset. The cults convince their followers not to pursue questions that would challenge their leadership or teachings. They set themselves up as an authority and convince their followers they are God’s man or woman. This has been going on for hundreds of years. In modern terms its called group think.
The church in Germany was silent as Hitler rose to power. Today the church is mostly silent about the slaughter of their brethren that is taking place all over the world from Islam. But they are quick to speak up and condemn their brethren who are being Bereans and obeying the command of Christ.
Consider this a recent relative example to what is taking place inside the church.
At the Democratic National Committee’s Annual Winter Meeting in Washington the Democrats were led in prayer by a Muslim imam, Husham Al-Husainy, Imam of the Karbalaa Islamic Education Center. He asked Allah to assist in converting the party members to Islam. “We thank you God, to send us your messages through our father Abraham and Moses and Jesus and Muhammad. Through you, God, we unite. So guide us to the right path. The path of the people you bless, not the path of the people you doom. Help us God to liberate and fill this earth with justice and peace and love and equality. And help us to stop the war and violence, and oppression and occupation. Ameen.”
I’m astounded that there was no outcry, they did not even blink. It was if they did not hear him say what he said (certainly they did not understand what he meant).
Husham Al-Husainy, was later invited on the Sean Hannity (Friday 9 of Feb. 2007 show to explain himself on the statement of oppression and occupation in relation to the United States. When asked if the president of Iran is an anti-Semite or is Hamas is a terrorist organization he would not answer him. and argued about giving him a chance to speak (which he graciously did) He then tires of Sean and calls him names accusing him of not being for peace and working against the unity of the world. Saying you are against the prophet Mohammed, you are against the Qur’an. You are makinbg God mad at you Jesus is going to get mad at you… he was called the anti peace person; and much more was said in his anger from questioning him
Take this as lesson in dodging the point and turning the tables on the one who directly asks about the facts and is trying to get to the truth. Al-Husainy could not deal with the facts so he went into a tirade.
Getting to the truth will always remove the deception. But to do so, questions need to be asked and ANSWERED– facts need to be scrutinized. When we as a people and a church stop doing this we may find ourselves in a similar time period of Germany in the 1930’s.
Getting back to the subject in the article- If people would learn to think past their feelings – their emotions, their blind loyalty to man, they just might be able to get a whiff of the smell. This aroma is spread all throughout God’s house. Instead they tell people to ignore the smell even if they are ready to keel over. Instead of the fragrance of Jesus filling the house it is the smell of garbage and decay. We are telling people to get the garbage out of the house before it is ruined.
Paul wrote 2 Tim 4:3 They “will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;” its all about - SELF. The problem does not lie with the teachers only but with the people- they want it, they love it (Jeremiah 5:31). Why? Because they love themselves; they are not intending on living as Jesus instructed, to deny themselves and carry the cross. If they did they would see right through the manipulation and chicanery. What has taken place is nothing short of criminal.
The main problem is the strength of the Laodicean church today. The delusion is increasing in power and scope and this is no time for you to be complacent, silent or indecisive. In this matter, you are either part of the problem or part of the solution. It’s time to take the garbage out of the house.
Gal. 3:2-3: “This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?”
Because everything is turned upside down people do not recognize what is taking place. They are under these men’s lawful spell of blessings. They are looking for God in all the wrong places.
With the Spirit and faith comes God’s blessings but when you put people under the law (such as tithing for a blessing, or obedience to men to gain spiritual favor) Gal. 3:10 For “as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse” Gal. 3:18 For “if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.”
Being under the Law removes one from being under grace. We should not be removed from the simplicity in Christ (2 Cor.11:3). The word simplicity is haplotes- meaning- 1)singleness, simplicity, sincerity, mental honesty the virtue of one who is free from pretence and hypocrisy 2) not self-seeking.
It has been given to us all individually and collectively. 2 Tim 3:16-17 “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.”
Some have missed the whole point of the New Covenant and the Spirits indwelling. We have what we need if the Spirit is in us, we don’t have to wait for another baptism- we do not need an anointed man to give us the spirit or more grace or blessings.
2 Pet 1:3-9: “as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness ,to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.”
You can’t love God with your heart when you are not using your mind, and Jesus told us to know the truth. That means we must judge by the truth, his Word and forewarned us of a deception in the last days that would be so great that few would escape its net. If you do not think we are in these days then you do not believe Jesus’ own words. If you do believe His words then you should be on guard about those who come in his name to deceive you with their teachings, prophecies and their solicitation of money to have a blessing.
In fact, when one chooses to continue following these MENS teachings (Laodicea means men’s opinions) that are false, it solidifies them further in the deception and makes it more difficult for them to hear truth. There is no justification for anyone to continue this once it is pointed out, unless they willfully do not want to walk in the truth (1 Jn.1:6-7; 3 Jn.3-4). We care for individuals and for the body of Christ; and we want to see it strengthen what remains so that we are ready.
Rev 3:11: “Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown.” (1 Cor. 9:25; 1 Pt.5:4)
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