Article on John Bevere

One of my readers a dear sister in the Lord asked-Tim,

What do you know about John Bevere?
This is a great topic since Warren apoligist Richard Abanes has been all over the internet openly critisisng those of us who have discernement and have discernment ministries.This also has bearing on the recent meeting Rick Warren and his team had with Bob Dewaay and Chris Rosebrough.

Here is a quote from John Bevere- keep in mind all this deception ties together.
Bevere on the subject of discernment ...

John Bevere : "I am so tired of criticalness being called discernment. Do you want to know true discernment? Paul said "That your love may abound in all discernment." When you are willing to die for somebody that is when you are actually discerning them. Jesus could call the Pharisees hypocrites and snakes because he went to the cross and died for them. So the next time you are quote "discerning" about somebody ask yourselves the question could you die for them? If you can`t say yes, you're critical because the love of God is to lay down your life for them, and discernment is rooted only in love. Got it?" (John Bevere, The Christian Channel Europe "The Messenger" 26/3/98)

It is true that Christians need to speak the truth in love among brothers in the Faith (Eph. 4:15). Conversely, and not taught by Bevere, Christians are also to mark, avoid and reject the divisive ones, heretics (Rom. 16:17, Tit. 3:10). Apparently Bevere wants to major on discernment among those who call themselves believers to the exclusion of rejecting heresy from the wolves in sheep's clothing. But what Bevere teaches that is false teaching is that it is wrong for Christians to be "critical". The Greek word from which we get the English word "critical" is kritikos. Strongs says it means discerner, relating to judging, fit for judging, skilled in judging. The Bible clearly teaches that Christians are to learn to discern.
KRITIKOS -- TO DISCERN
For the Word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge [kritikos] the thoughts and intentions of the heart (Hebrews 4:12). Cells called erythrocytes are stored in the red marrow of big bones, like the femur and the tibia. On the outside there is the bone and on the inside there is the marrow. But in between there is an area where, even with a microscope, it is very difficult to tell where the bone ends and where the marrow begins. The Bible says that the relationship between soul and spirit is like that. Take prophecy: Was that from someone's imagination, or was it God's Spirit speaking through their spirit? It is very difficult to tell the difference. Man is a three-dimensional being. You can separate a body from a soul; but you cannot easily tell where the soul ends and the spirit begins. When people say, "The Lord showed me this" and "God told me that," it is difficult to know if it is someone's imagination or God's Spirit speaking to their spirit. The mind is a good servant, but a dangerous master. Many people are caught up with things not overtly demonic, but they are prophesying from the futility of their own mind. We are called to kritikos -- to discern between the soulish and the spiritual. The Word of God enables us to separate the bone from the marrow, the spiritual from the purely soulish. (Jacob Prasch, Judge Not?, http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/judgenot.html)
Another word for discern in Greek is diakrisis. It means discerning, discern, disputation, a distinguishing, discerning, judging. This word is used in the context of commanding Christians to use critical discernment in the following passages:
1 Cor. 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning (diakrisis) of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.
Heb 5:14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern (diakrisis) both good and evil.
1 Cor. 12:10 is the same type of discernment that John speaks of in 1 John 4:1.
1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test (dokimazo) the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Dokimazo means prove, try, approve, discern, allow, like, test, examine, scrutinise (to see whether a thing is genuine or not), as metals, to recognise as genuine after examination, to approve, deem worthy. Dokimazo is used in these verses commanding Christians to use critical discernment.
Lu 12:56 Ye hypocrites, ye can discern (dokimazo) the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern (dokimazo) this time?
Lu 14:19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove (dokimazo) them: I pray thee have me excused.
Ro 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain (dokimazo) God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Ro 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove (dokimazo) what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
1Co 11:28 But let a man examine (dokimazo) himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove (dokimazo) your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Ga 6:4 But let every man prove (dokimazo) his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.
Eph 5:10 Proving (dokimazo) what is acceptable unto the Lord.
Php 1:10 That ye may approve (dokimazo) things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ;
1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try (dokimazo) the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Th 5:21 Prove (dokimazo) all things; hold fast that which is good.
I could go on and on with word studies having to do with discernment, testing,
Read the rest of the article here from my friend and brother in the Lord Sandy Simpson.

http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/beverequotes.html
Peace and thanks Marie-Tim

Todd Bentley and Rick Warren are a reflection of Worldwide deception and the lack of biblical discernment from many American Christians

Acts 17:11 "11 These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.

2 Timothy 4:2-5
"2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry."

It needs to be stated that here in America we have created a climate
where false teachers like Rick Warren and Todd Bentley can thrive.
We can't blame everything on the false teachers if guys like Rick Warren and Todd Bentley couldn't pull big crowds they would have been forgotten long ago.
They have sought after power and fame but we give that to them.
Why has America gone in this direction?
Because they have forgotten to hold things up to the scripture's and test all things.
Pastor no longer are on their knees long hours seeking the Holy Spirits council in what to preach to their individual congregations.
Instead they seek the quick fix.
The sermon off the Internet crafted into their own words.
A search to experience something they think is God.
It seems that if a church is not rocking out, clucking like chickens, laughing like loonies or doing something crazy their church is considered a dead church.
Sad but the meetings the apostles and early Christians had at the start of Christianity would have been considered a dead church by today's entertainment standards.
But their church was full of life because it was filled with the Holy Spirit.
Rick Warrens church and Todd Bentley's gatherings are filled with quick fixes, man made programs made to stimulate the flesh, as well as common old tent revival con artist routines.
How does motivational speakers such as Joel Osteen pack churches out check these stats-"Lakewood Church is located in one of the poorest areas of northeast Houston. Dr. John Osteen, father of current pastor Joel, started the church in a feed store. A model of that former meeting place was displayed in the main entrance of the 7,000-seat worship center eventually built by the congregation.

Joel became pastor of the church when his father died in 1999. In several God-size steps, Joel led the church to begin a second, then third and fourth worship service. Attendance doubled from 11,000 in 1999 to 22,000 one year later. In early 2004, Lakewood was listed as both the largest and the fastest growing church in the nation when attendance reached 25,000. By early 2005, the church became the first in the U.S. to exceed 32,000 average weekend attendance"
source-http://www.apologeticsindex.org/230-lakewood-church

And check the fruit of these churches. Saddleback has created a monster in the form of author Richard Abanes who tears it up all over the Internet defending Rick Warrens faith daily. The world wide damage and deception that Rick Warren has done by promoting his new religion Purpose Driven is yet not even measurable.
Todd Bentley has also did tremendous damage to Christianity with the deception and false spirits he imparts to his crowds who take them back these demons back to their home churches worldwide.
Consider the case of lemmings-
Driven by strong biological urges, they will migrate in large groups when population density becomes too great. Lemmings can and do swim and may choose to cross a body of water in search of a new habitat[5]. On occasion, and particularly in the case of the Norway lemmings in Scandinavia, large migrating groups will reach a cliff overlooking the ocean. They will stop until the urge to press on causes them to jump off the cliff and start swimming, sometimes to exhaustion and death. Lemmings are also often pushed into the sea as more and more lemmings arrive at the shore.
And now once again consider this verse of scripture.
"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables."
When we are in our flesh and we want what we want instead of what God wants we are asking to be handed over to the deceptions of Rick Warren and Todd Bentley.
Consider Rick Warrens roots-
He started his books and church as well as his new religion based on his targeting the council of unsaved people on their way to hell.
Does scripture teach this?
Does scripture teach that this is the way to build a church?
No it does not.
Rick Warren has even stated "The biggest mistake that churches make is we think that sermons will produce spiritual maturity. They will not.
Now of course Rick is telling the truth for once if he is speaking about his own sermons spoken at Saddleback as well as the ones produced by Rick followers around the world. That indeed is a fact.
But the Bible teaches that solid biblical based teaching will lead a believer to spiritual maturity.
Eph 4:11-14 "11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,"
The reason many Americans and people world wide are being tossed to and fro by guys like Warren and Bentley is that preachers are not preaching the whole council of God.
And people are not reading their Bible for themselves and allowing the Holy Spirit to lead them into all truth.
Instead they are like lemmings heading for the cliff that Rick Warren and Todd Bentley are leading them to.
For the latest on Rick Warren please go to my other blog here-
http://nogoofyzone.wordpress.com

For the latest on Todd Bentley (if you even have the stomach) check these links
Bud Press articles

http://www.christianresearchservice.com/ToddBentleyResearchPage.htm

Mike Oppenheimer articles

http://www.letusreason.org/Latrain37.htm

Meanwhile you will have to decide whether you will get back into Gods word which exposes frauds and false teachers like Rick Warren and Todd Bentley

Or be like a lemming and go for a swim.

Lemmings may look cute and all but-

The real question here is-

How long can you tread water?
Sincerely in Christ
Tim Wirth

Rick Warrens meeting with Chris Rosebrough and Bob Dewaay

A concerned reader commented-

Tim,

What do you know regarding Warren's latest conference and the "generous" invitation he extended to his detractors in the discernment community to be his guests at the latest 3-day conference on the grounds of Saddleback? (all-expenses paid)

I ssume you were included in the list of those invited, as you have boldly taken on the subject of Warren yourself -- as well as his staunch defender Richard Abanes.

Warren seems determined to sway his detractors and draw them into his his circle. This is without a doubt a very smooth move on his part, extending the hand of friendship to those who have tirelessly exposed the darker purposes of the Purpose Driven movement. Clever and diabolical are two terms that come to mind as describing Warren's ploys. And foolish is the word that would best describe those who accepted his invitation... To think they'd "find something" in their time there to report back to their constituents was a little naive on their parts, I believe. Knowing Rick and his ability to put his best foot forward, I'd have thought better of our watchmen than to oblige themselves to Warren by accepting such an invitation. To think he'd invite their participation in this event if he thought they'd be able to find an ounce of anything unorthodox, offensive or false to report back to us about.

I'm deeply concerned about those who accepted Warren's invitation to attend this 3-day conference. Chris Rosebrough, for example. He began live-blogging from the event but then mysteriously disappeared from the scene. If you'll go on Chris's website, his latest post is a Thank-you to Rick Warren and Saddleback for their generous hospitality and Rick's genuine sincerity. Chris mentioned Bob DeWaayas being present there withhim, and the two of them together being treated to a gracious "one on one" meeting with Warren, from which it was determined that he was SOOOO sincere, SOOOOwilling to consider their grievances with him (so "conciliatory"...)

What's going on here??? What were these guys thinking in accepting Warren's deceptive overture to them? Did they think they would be impervious to his wiles, that they would be able to resist his charm, his disarming manner, his and "sincerity"?

I am most concerned. I am wondering how many of our illustrious watchmen took the bait to attend this conference that was deliberately designed, one might reason, to win their trust of Warren and thus discount all the negative reporting of Warren's unbiblical goals, agenda, aspirations. We already know that that Warren weilds a charm that is disarming, and are we not fools to engage it, and to ingratiate ourselves to him for his "sincere generosity" and "hospitality"?

What can you tell us about the discernment community's response to Warren's unexpected 11th hour invitation to be his guests for a three-day immersion in carefully planned presentations and warm-fuzzy experiences?

I'm searching for some word from within the discernment community, some post-conference respoonse, and finding nothing (so far). Have we not just been played? I suspect that Warren may have succeeded in convincing his opponents that he is a harmless and lovable character after all, and the consummate gentleman, his knowledge of politics having served him well.

Ingrid has had precious little to say recently besides remarking that Chris Rosebrough was asked by Warren to shut down his live blogging of the conference (with which he complied). Where is any comment post-conference from within the discernment fold? All I'm finding is silence, and it's a little disconcerting.

What do you know about any of this, Tim? Can you tell us someething? Perhaps I'm asking prematurely. I suppose there may be some response show up later today...

Here is my responce-

The post this person was referring to was here-

http://www.extremetheology.com/2008/05/thank-you-to-ri.html

I expressed my concerns to Chris about this publically on his website. I also spoke to Chris a couple of times on the phone to get some more information on what is going on. After my conversation with Chris I must say I at this point I am not concerned but I will be interested on how Chris responds to all this as well as how Bob Dewaay responds.

I however would not have went to the meeting for the following reasons.

1. Rick Warren is famed for how charming he can be. I believe Rick has a deceptive spirit around him though. For more on this turn your Bibles to Danial 8:23-24.

2. Rick Warren and what he does is very much out in the public. He is a member of the Council of Foreign Relation and spoke at the Davos conference with Emergent Church leader Brian McLaren

read this article by Joe Farah and the Davos article by Herescope.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53030

http://herescope.blogspot.com/2008/01/rick-warren-brian-mclaren-at-davos.html

I really dont have anything to say to Rick Warren but repent and stop deceiving the thousands of churches in the Body of Christ with all his false teachings and associations.

I do not believe anything outside of a direct act from God would convince Rick Warren to repent and cease his false teaching and leading the Body of Christ astray.

But God is still a God of Miracles. He is also a God that will turn you over to a reprobate mind if you dont repent.

Out of all the people invited( which the list included Deb and Dave Dombrowski, Ingrid, James Sundquist among some others) only Chris and Bob decided to go on Rick Warrens dime.

Im sure Saddleback and Warren checked damage control and sought the blogs and website's with the most hits so he could get the most bang for his buck.

Warren may be a lot of things but he is a brilliant businessman and knows how to do damage control.

Sad but I think no matter how Chris or Bob respond this is a win-win for Rick Warren because he paid their way.

At least thats my opinion.

Ingrids refusal publicly on her website stated it best I thought.

http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/?p=741

I was personally not invited to this meeting and would not go anywhere with Rick Warren picking up my tab. I would not spend a penny of that guys money period.

The bad thing about all this was that Abanes has run rampant on Chris blog with his usual half truth's and lying tongue.

Richard even stated that this meeting was cancelled on another website because no one took Warrens offer which of course was not a true statement.

I asked Chris if he knew of any meeting that was supposed to have included Richard Abanes, he stated he hadnt heard of any other meeting that would have included Richard.

Read my comments about that here

http://nogoofyzone.wordpress.com/2008/05/17/richard-abanes-spokesperson-for-saddleback-and-rick-warren/

Maybe Richard is not as close a confidant as I have thought he was with Rick Warren.

But who really know's Richard spins sometimes so quickly you get dizzy following what he originally says.

Richard does like to inflate the truth.

Anyway I spoke to Chris today and he has stated he is working on a article and it would be up on his blog soon.

So of course its best to let Chris speak for himself , which Im sure he will do.

I have heard nothing about a response from Bob Dewaay and I dont know him. But I would hope that he will respond as he is lead by the Lord.

Again Im not exactly sure of what would motivate anyone to sit at a table outside of a public arena with Rick Warren.

Most of all not on Ricks dime.

We''l see how this all plays out. Though I commend Chris and Bob for taking the time not just to react. But to sit and think prayerfully about how they will respond.

If I had a tape of this meeting it would be out on U Tube whenever I got it and let the public take away what they will from it.

But Chris and Bob are accountable to God to respond as they see fit.

We will see what happens.

Tim Wirth

Todd Bentley’s Diabolical Signs

Jackie Alnor on Todd Bentley article. Very good read. Tim

If you’ve been watching the news on "Christian Television" in the past couple of weeks, you could not have missed the glowing reports of a "revival" breaking out in Lakeland, Florida. It is headed up by a certified false prophet/teacher by the name of Todd Bentley, one of the guys from the infamous Elijah List, an umbrella group that markets all the bogus "prophetic" junk their many seers sell. Many of these forerunners for the antichrist are heralding this outbreak as the much-touted outpouring of the latter rain. {If you think I'm speaking harshly, keep reading to understand why I can't mince words.}

click on the title to read the rest of the article

One of our readers comments

This comment that I just received concerning Rob Bell is well worth repeating.
I have to echo this dear sister in the Lords concern.
And I repeat where is the pastors of our churches discernment?
Its flown out the window.
Fortunately the church I serve in now has a discerning pastor who is warning about the threat to our youth in the form of the Emergent church.
Unfortunately the church I just left Upper Valley Community church here in Piqua is asleep at the wheel and has traded a positive message in for the sake of numbers.
Sorry folks these times are dangerous and people need to be warned.
Seeker Sensitive has built our churches 500-5000 wide, but the Christians in these churches are 1 inch deep.
I know thats harsh but its also a true statement and I stand by it.
Here is one of our readers comments-



Tim,
I have seen and heard Rob Bell through many videos and what I refer to as "pro Bell" writings as well as those who are seeing the red flags (like yourself). I have had red flags waving about Bell for a long time now. In fact, we are no longer at the church where we fellowshipped for seven years, in part, due to Rob Bell and Nooma. (Nooma is the name of his video series.)

After much prayer and investigation, we approached our pastor and youth pastor about the concerns we had with some of Bell's theology and the things he was instucting and encouraging. For example, "breathing out sin" and "Christian yoga", just to name two. Believe me, it is way bigger than that. We were told that there was nothing wrong with Rob Bell or his ministry and that we were being fundamental and rigid. At the same time, our pastor was encouraging our church body to link up with a church in our community that performs same-sex marriages and stands with Planned Parenthood, because they have a food distrubution during the holidays. Our youth wanted to put together a basket (within the youth group) for a family in our prayer-focus, but the pastor took it out of their hands and insisted that we would join this church and work with them in "unity" to "feed the hungry". We were saddened, surprised and shocked...all at the same time. It's a really long story. Our concerns were flushed over and over while we tried to communicate with both pastors. The main focus became uniting with this other church on a thread of commonality...feeding the hungry, or "getting food to hungry people".

So, what does all this have to do with Rob Bell? I believe our story is an example of how "the unity" of faith is exploited and misrepresented. Rob Bell is just a part of the picture. There is a defining line being drawn down the middle of the church. Folks are being asked to leave their churches if they don't get on the band wagon with the Emergent Movement. Some get pressured other ways. If they remian silent about their concerns, they can stay. If they change their minds, they can stay. Sadly, the watchmen are either sleeping, decieved or afraid of getting booted out.

Now, back to Rob Bell. These are simple questions; Why would a Christian minister encourage kids to perform yoga when God's Word denounces these types of avenues to try to get closer to Him? (Listen to his "Breathe" sermon.) If this doesn't give you a caution, I don't know what would. Would it not be better to lead a person down the road of repentance than to lead them to believe that they can breathe out their sin and breathe in forgiveness? This may sound trivial and unimportant to many, but it is vital to the soul. And speaking of soul; I think of what is waiting for the soul who "causes one of these to stumble" and pray that children will be protected from Bells twisted theology and his efforts to turn ancient practices into "get closer to God disciplines". These things are just a drop in the bucket. And it isn't just Bell. Doug Pagitt, Brian McClaren and even Rick Warren are moving in the "unity at any cost" direction. The list is quite long, but these are just a few high profile names.

Our family is very well established in our community (spiritually, personally and in business) and it was no secret that we served our Father inside our church and outside. My husband sat on the church council, drove one of the trailers and was a key person in the set-up and tear-down (portable church meeting in public school). He was also the greeter, an usher, filling in where needed. I was part of the prayer ministry team, connected with lots of people and also filled in at times. We are also watchmen. The Lord has shown us for a few years, what was coming. I still remember the vision He gave me of dogs coming right into the church...appearing friendly...whipping the children with their tails...people having conversations and eating and drinking and not paying attention...all the while the children are being whipped and also licked in their faces, to the point of suffocation. Some were still in their carseats sitting on the floor. The parents maintained that the dogs were friendly and I should stop making a big deal of it. The licking, to them, was friendly and my concerns were unwarranted. I saw the dogs' teeth and tongues and their whipping tails. It was horrifying. And right in the church!

That may have been too much information for you and your readers, but I believe it was one of many warnings that the Lord gave me. By the way, I confronted one of the dogs and it tried to intimidate me with it's teeth and loud bark. I punched it square in the mouth and my hand went in and was protected from any injury. I knew this to be the Lord's protection and that I had done the right thing. I see now, that I could have spent more time praying for the protection of our little church. I did share the vision with the pastor and a few others, but it was shined-on (disregarded) and not talked about. No skin off my nose, but has the church thumbed it's nose at God's warnings?

God is speaking to the watchmen in His church. Is the church throwing the watchmen as well as the children to the dogs?

I don't know if I will write or comment here again, but I do know that I will continue to pray for the watchmen and for the lost. Check everything out folks...and listen to the Holy Spirit..listen, listen, listen and then obey. Don't fall into deception in these days. Wide is the road to destruction so if you are in the mainstream you should be even more diligent to check yourself, your theology; not just for your sake, but for those who may follow you to where you are going.

A Sister in Christ

Another false revival targets our youth

Our youth is under great attack from Rick Warren, Richard Abanes, Leonard Sweet and those promoting centering prayer.
As well as the new mystical movement and labyrinths cloaked in the Emergent church.
As well as another false revival happening in the wacky world of Charismania.

This article was also sent to me by Ed Newby. Its never ceases to amaze me that if many Christians are not experiencing something they figure their church is a dead church. Now that same spirit that bought you Brownsville, Toronto and other false revivals brings you the latest rage packaged up in a grunge look with the Lakeland revival.
The real scary thing is I do believe that a real spirit is imparted here that comes back to your church.
Is it the Holy Spirit?
Absolutely not.
The Holy Spirit will never need to piggy back on someone to come to your church.
The Holy Spirit of God can be anywhere at anytime.
Notice how all these supposed revivals seem to need a human vessel to carry the goofiness back to your church.

While the Bible tells us to test the spirit, and test all things these folks throw caution to the wind and just want the next rush that psuedo-Christianity and false revivals bring.

This is all loosening people up for the great deception that is coming as well as the New Age movement that is already here ( packaged by people like Rick Warren and his new age friend Leonard Sweet as new spirituality).

Here is a personnel report you can decide for yourself is this is true or false. side note- I watched the revival with Todd Bently on God TV (this station though is not the God I know so I would use extreme caution if you watch this station which is filled with false teachers). My comments on the revival and sorry if this sounds ad homenuim but on the praise and worship the leader couldnt sing very poor vocalist. The band played ok but they just mantra'd the latest Christian music hits. Nothing very well played here. I am waiting for Integrity Music to put out a CD though because this place is in the news.
As for Todd Bently its not the tattoo's or even the piercings that bother me. Its just the fact that Todd has repackaged all the stuff we saw in Brownsville, Smithtown, Toronto and repackaged it in a relate with the grunge package.
Also where did Todd say he got his healing anointing from.
An angel right.
Where does it state this practice in the Bible?
Angels seem to be the focus of this revival as well, what does the Bible teach about the worship of angels?
Whether they will admit it or not a lot of glory and undue focus is given to angels here.
Look at what the New Age movement teaches about angels and all.
What does the Bible teach about the enemy coming as a angel of light?
Even though most following this revival would deny they worship angels.
But look where the focus is here.
I looked at the crowd and Im sorry all I could think of was Mickey Gilleys song "Looking for Love in all the wrong places".
Or should that be looking for experiences in all the wrong places.
What happens when the experiences stop?

And I want you to go look in your Bibles right now and see what Jesus Himself state about those who seek after signs and wonders.

Plus notice that this false revival is targeting our youth and children as well.
The bottom line folks is you need to read and be into your Bibles and Gods Word more than ever in history. As well as getting your children to read their Bibles so they can tell truth from error

Here is the report sent to me by Ed Newby-

From Patricia King's Revival Journal … More Thoughts on Revival


[Excerpts]

May 5, 2008
Wow! It is so much fun being in revival. Last night at our monthly XPerience Night in Phoenix there was standing room only. We literally ran out of chairs, but people were so hungry for God they didn't mind standing against the wall. The glory came in during worship and the healings began. We didn't pray for anyone to be healed ... they simply got healed in the glory presence of God and then testified. We prayed for an impartation of what we had received in Lakeland for everyone in attendance. Some people received prayer 3-5 times. They kept getting back in the line-ups. Many of them couldn't stand. Many of them staggered in the glory ... laughed in the glory ... fell in the glory. There was so much joy and so much hunger ... they were hungry for God's presence!!! No one wanted to leave. Children were being touched, healed and blessed (Special report from Shirley Ross below).


Lord, thank You for your kindness to us. I love the refreshment You are bringing Your people. It is glorious ... but as glorious as it is, I know it is only the beginning!!!! There is much more... so much more!!! I want to posture myself to experience more of You! Help me to experientially tuck into Your heart and dwell there forever. I love You Lord!!!! I love Your Presence!!! I love Your glory!!

And Jesus ... I want You to visit the Growing in the Supernatural revival meetings this month in outrageous ways … Why? Because we are all really, really, really, hungry for YOU!!! Feel free to bring Your angelic friends too ... We love Your angels ... and we love anything and everything You want to deposit in our midst.

I love You Jesus ... my heart feels really big with love today. Thank You, Lord! You are always GOOD!

Oh ... and Lord ... we emptied our ministry bank accounts last week ... could You fill them for us? We really need that? And ... could You also fill all the bank accounts of all our Breaker Team Partners and friends and give them lots of supernatural provisional miracles -- they would really like that ... it would bring joy to their hearts … Thank You, Father ... Thank You!!!

Pop goes Christianity

This article is sobering and well worth reading. It was sent to me by my dear friend and brother in the Lord Ed Newby at the Berean Call-Thanks Ed, Tim





This article shows that even the secular press has figured out how
Christians should be behaving. ""You are the salt of the earth; but if
the salt has become tasteless,
how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything,
except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men" (Matthew 5:13).



Ed






Pop Goes Christianity


The deep contradictions of Christian popular culture.

By Hanna Rosin id="dateline_top">

Posted Monday, May 5, 2008, at 7:43 AM ET


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One night, a couple of years ago, I walked in on a group of
evangelical college boys sitting on a bed watching The Daily Show.
I felt alarmed, and embarrassed, as if I had caught them reading Playboy
or something else they had to be shielded from. Jon Stewart, after all,
spends at least one-quarter of his show making fun of people like them.
But they eagerly invited me in. I soon learned that they watched the
show every night it was on, finals or no finals. So strong was their
devotion to Jon Stewart that I was tempted to ask: If Jesus came back
on a Tuesday night at 11, would you get off the bed?



Over time, I
came to understand this as a symptom of a larger phenomenon:
evangelicals' deeply neurotic relationship with popular culture.
Whether or not they were the butt of all of Stewart's jokes seemed
irrelevant to them. The point was that the high priest of political
comedy spent a lot of time thinking about them. Once, after I'd met Jon
Stewart, they all crowded around and asked the same question: What does
he really think of us?



At this point in history,
American evangelicals resemble the Israelites at various dangerous
moments in the Old Testament: They are blending into the surrounding
heathen culture, and having ever more trouble figuring out where it
ends and they begin. In politics, and in business, they've mostly gone
ahead and joined the existing networks. With pop culture, they've
instead created their own enormous "parallel universe," as Daniel
Radosh calls it in his rich exploration of the realm, Rapture
Ready! A
Christian can now buy books, movies, music—and anything else lowbrow to
middlebrow—tailor-made for his or her sensibilities. Worried that
American popular culture leads people—and especially teenagers—astray,
the Christian version is designed to satisfy all the same needs in a
cleaner form.



The problem is that purity boundaries are hard to
police in the Internet age. Show a kid a Christian comedian, and soon
he's likely to discover that the guy is a pale imitation of this much
funnier guy—Jon Stewart—who's not a Christian at all, and doesn't even
like Christians. Which might then lead to a whole new set of anxieties,
such as: Why are Christians so constitutionally unfunny? And, what is
the point of Christian culture, anyway?



In the '80s, Christians
were known as the boycotters, refusing to see movies or buy products
that offended them. They felt about commercial culture much the way a
Marxist might: that it was a decadent glorification of money and
meaningless human relationships. Then, sometime during the '90s, when
conservative evangelicals started coming out of their shells, they took
a different tack. The boycotters became coopters and embarked on the
curious quest to enlist America's crassest material culture in the
service of spiritual growth.



Most non-Christians are aware that
there is something called Christian rock. We've all had the slightly
unsettling experience of pausing the car radio on a pleasant,
unfamiliar ballad until we realized … Ahhh. That's not her
boyfriend she's mooning over!
But few of us have any idea of how truly extensive this so-called
subculture is. Reading Radosh's book is like coming across another
planet hidden somewhere on Earth where everything is just exactly like
it is here except blue or made out of plastic. Every American pop
phenomenon has its Christian equivalent, no matter how improbable. And
Radosh seems to have experienced them all.



At a Christian
retail show Radosh attends, there are rip-off trinkets of every kind—a
Christian version of My Little Pony and the mood ring and the boardwalk
T-shirt ("Friends don't let friends go to hell"). There is Christian
Harlequin and Christian chick lit and Bibleman, hero of spiritual
warfare. There are Christian raves and Christian rappers and Christian
techno, which is somehow more Christian even though there are no words.
There are Christian comedians who put on a Christian version of Punk'd,
called Prank 3:16.
There are Christian sex-advice sites where you can read the biblical
case for a strap-on dildo or bondage (liberation through submission).
There's a Christian planetarium, telling you the true age of
the universe, and my personal favorite—Christian professional
wrestling, where, by the last round, "Outlaw" Todd Zane sees the beauty
of salvation.



At some point, Radosh asks the obvious question:
Didn't Jesus chase the money changers out of the temple? In other
words, isn't there something wrong with so thoroughly commercializing
all aspects of faith? For this, the Christian pop-culture industry has
a ready answer. Evangelizing and commercializing have much in common.
In the "spiritual marketplace" (as it's called), Christianity is a
brand that seeks to dominate. Like Coke, it wants to hold onto its
followers and also win over new converts. As with advertisers, the most
important audience is young people and teenagers, who are generally
brand loyalists. Hence, Bibleman and Christian rock are the spiritual
equivalent of New Coke. Christian trinkets—a WWJD bracelet, a "God is
my DJ" T-shirt—function more like Coca-Cola T-shirts or those cute
stuffed polar bears. They telegraph to the community that the wearer is
a proud Christian and that this is a cool thing to be—which should, in
theory, invite eager curiosity.



Straightforward, if somewhat
crude, merchandizing so far. But there is also another level of
questions, which the creators of Christian culture have a much harder
time answering: What does commercializing do to the substance of
belief, and what does an infusion of belief do to the product? When you
make loving Christ sound just like loving your boyfriend, you can do
damage to both your faith and your ballad. That's true when you create
a sanitized version of bands like Nirvana or artists like Jay-Z, too:
You shoehorn a message that's essentially about obeying authority into
a genre that's rebellious and nihilistic, and the result can be ugly,
fake, or just limp.



The Christian rockers Radosh interviews are
always torn between the pressure not to lead their young audience
astray and the drive to make good music. Mark Allan Powell, a professor
who teaches a class on contemporary Christian music at Trinity Lutheran
Seminary, describes the predicament for Radosh: Imagine the Good Rubber
Tire Co. came out with an awesome rock song that just happened to be
about tires. Musicians wouldn't want to play it because they'd think,
"We're being used," Powell explains. Creative Christian types find
themselves in a similar bind: They want to make good, authentic music.
But they are also enlisted in a specific mission which confines their
art.



The entertainers in Radosh's book complain about watchdog groups
that count the number of times a song mentions Jesus
or about the lockstep political agenda a Christian audience expects.
They complain about promoting an "adolescent theology" of Christian
rock, as one calls it, where they "just can't get over how darned cool
it was that Jesus sacrificed himself." In his interview with Radosh,
Powell pulled out an imitation of a 1982 New Wave pop song with the
lyrics; "You'll have to excuse us/ We're in love with Jesus." This, he
explained, was the equivalent of a black-velvet painting of Elvis. Only
it's more offensive, because it's asking the listener to base his whole
life around an insipid message and terrible quality music.



For
faith, the results can be dangerous. A young Christian can get the idea
that her religion is a tinny, desperate thing that can't compete with
the secular culture. A Christian friend who'd grown up totally
sheltered once wrote to me that the first time he heard a Top 40
station he was horrified, and not because of the racy lyrics:
"Suddenly, my lifelong suspicions became crystal clear," he wrote.
"Christian subculture was nothing but a commercialized rip-off of the
mainstream, done with wretched quality and an apocryphal insistence on
the sanitization of reality."



Striking a balance between
reverence and hip relevance can be a near-impossible feat. Christian
comedians, for example, border on subversive, especially when making
fun of themselves. In one episode of Prank 3:16, the
pranksters fake the Rapture and throw their victim into a panic because
she's afraid she's been left behind. With true comedic flair, they're
flirting with opposition and doubt, and even cruelty. But "the
Christian is supposed to be secure in the loving hand of the almighty
God," one of them tells Radosh. So, even if they don't sanitize,
they're afraid to step over into the brutal, dirty truth comedy thrives
on.



The new generation of Christians is likely to be a
different kind of audience. Raised on iPods and downloadable music,
they find it difficult truly to commit to the idea of a separate
Christian pop culture. They might watch Jon Stewart or Pulp Fiction
and also listen to the Christian band Jars of Clay, assuming the next
album is any good. They are much more critical consumers and excellent
spotters of schlock. The creators of Christian pop culture may just
adapt and ease up on the Jesus-per-minute count, and artistic quality
might show some improvement. But in my experience, where young souls
are at stake, Christian creators tend to balk. It's always been a
stretch to defend Christian pop culture as the path to eternal
salvation. Now, they may have to face up to the fact that it's more
like an eternal oxymoron.