The No Goofy Zone Discernment Ministry

The No Goofy Zone is a discernment ministry for saved born again Christians and all who are seeking the truth.We expose non-biblical trends in the church. We are making material available to advance understanding of issue's which endanger Christianity. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit.

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Location: Piqua, Ohio, United States

Former drummer for Gary Lewis and The Playboys and The Coasters. Tim has also played with Paul Baloche, Lincoln Brewster, Darlene Zscech and Hillsongs, Jeff Fenholt, SteveCamp among others. Tim founded The Simply Agape Project in 2001 to get free Christian music to the troops. Recordings have been made with Tim, and friends Alex Acuna, Abe Laboriel SR, Justo Almario,Steve Camp , Jared Ming and some wonderful Independant Christian artists.The Somebody Brave CD also features words of encouragment to the soldiers from Pastors, Moms, Dads, and Lt Col Brian Birdwell a Pentegon 9/11 survivor Tim is married to Donna Wirth and has four children Alan 25,Steven 23, Brittany 22, Bethany 21. Tim has played in numerous churchs as well as shows on TBN. Tim has also performed on JCTV on the show Generation Worship featuring worship leader Jared Ming. Tim has a book published worldwide titled "Pass The Plate And Let Us Prey" (My Search For Black and White Christianity in a Gray Nation)

Thursday, November 30, 2006

Series on music in the church part 2

Worshipping Worship Music --
Something Isn't Right Hereby Scott MacIntyre
As a worship leader, I play and sing many of the newer worship songs that are popular around the country. I have no issues with contemporary music as a style...none. It's probably the only thing that Rick Warren and I agree on...that contemporary music has a place in the church. I never could track with those who tried to tell us that Satan owned all the music with an emphasis on beats 1 and 3. Geez...where's that in the Bible? I won't even bring up the old argument that Larry Norman had on his album liner notes over 30 years ago...that Isaac Watts put hymns to secular street music. (I thought I wasn't going to bring that up?)
Speaking of hymns, I love them. Well, at least many of them. In my college hymnology class, I learned to delineate between an actual hymn written 200 or 300 years ago, and the 'gospel' songs of the late 1800s. If you didn't know, there is a difference. Check out a hymnal sometime and notice the depth in the older songs. I haven't found a contemporary worship song yet that can compare to them. Cool thing is, most of them are public domain and you won't have to pay CCLI for the pleasure of singing them. But I digress...that's another subject.
As I attempt to learn new worship songs, it occurs to me that many of the modern day writers must either be eunuchs or belong to the Vienna Boy's Choir, or both. I can't believe how high these songs are written. The first time I heard "Open the Eyes of My Heart", it was being sung by Matthew Ward. No way I can sing that high. But I'm digressing again. In my attempts to learn the songs, I've had to alter both the key they're written in, and the manner in which the original recording is sung. And therein lies the problem. Vocally, I just can't keep up with these guys. I'm still trying to learn Mac Powell's vocal antics on "Your Love, O Lord". I'm starting to get the "yeah" part, but not much else.
So after church, one of my children invariably lets me know, "your doing it wrong, Dad". What do you mean, I'm 'doing it wrong'? "That's not how Mac Powell does it" comes the answer. Good grief...I'm not Mac Powell. I suppose if I smoked cigars for the next 10 years I might get there, but by that time, Mac's style is long gone and some other young kid will be the rage. I will admit, it is hard for me to emulate someone else. As a young guitarist, it was cool to play the "Free Bird" lick and have everyone think you were great. Problem is, I couldn't play it. A good guitar playing friend of mine once said that emulating another guitar player was like trying to walk in their steps. It just doesn't always work. Which brings me to my point (you knew I'd get there someday).
Why is it we feel the need to emulate all the popular worship music in our own worship times at church? Not only do we have to sing the same songs that everyone else is singing, but we have to sing them exactly the same way. Capo to the third fret and start with the Dsus chord of "God of Wonders" and the place will go nuts. Try it some other way and they stare at you. It's like worship is only possible when you do it the way Mac Powell, or whoever else does it. And it all leaves me wondering if we've not entered into a 'top 40' mentality when it comes to worship music. The songs we sing in the church are now determined by a few writers, singers, and record companies. Most others are not welcome. It's not like these songs are that good. They're certainly not as deep spiritually as most of the older hymns, and I seriously doubt they'll have the shelf life.
While I'm not suggesting we get rid of contemporary worship, I am suggesting we rethink our love affair with certain songs and artists. There is merit in having a set of universally accepted songs in the church, whether hymns or contemporary. But when people start pouting or whining when they don't hear their favorites, something is wrong. Unfortunately, such behavior is not limited to children. I can take a little whining from my 14 year old daughter. Grown people is another matter.
Back in the 90s, I recall that contemporary music began to take on a sort of blandness to it. Christian songs were getting a bit 'romantic' sounding, and it was hard to tell if someone was singing about his girlfriend or the Lord. Worship music began to grab more mainstream attention, possibly because people were tired of compromised music. Suddenly, everybody and their dog was producing worship music...even some of the same people who singing the romantic music before. Were they producing worship music because they were truly challenged to focus on worshipping God over the drivel they were singing before, or were they driven by sales? That's a judgement that I can't make. But there is clearly a hierarchy and dominance of worship music in today's church that seems driven and controlled by a well-established industry.
To all of that, I say "fine". Let them have it. I'm not going to change a machine as large as that. But I will do my best to encourage others not to worship what comes from their machinery. I will be just as prone to sing a song that is 200 years old or 10 years old, as I am to gravitate toward some newly released hot worship song. More than likely, it will be hot today and gone tomorrow. The shelf life is minimal.
As I have progressed (read:gotten older), I have found myself craving simplicity in worship. Songs, intros, transitions, and all the other mechanisms of leading worship are becoming less important. While I desire to be musically accurate, the last thing I want is to draw any attention away from the Lord and on to me. If possible, I'd even stand behind the congregation so as not to give them anything to look at to distract them from worshipping Almighty God.
May I never again place such importance on what the worship music industry is producing, and I no longer look for the latest 'hit' worship song. And we in the church need to stop expecting it as well. Otherwise, we will find ourselves guilty of placing demands and conditions upon worshipping the Lord. If we can't worship without an instrument or band leading us, or without the latest hit worship songs, than perhaps we can't worship. Perhaps we need to start exalting the Lord in the quietness of our hearts simply because He deserves to be exalted and worshipped. We may find it easier to exalt and worship the Lord in the corporate assembly, regardless of the worship leader's ability to emulate the current status quo of worship music. Perhaps then the depth of a 300 year-old hymn or a simple Psalm can bring us to our knees in praise and adoration, as easily as a modern worship song. Perhaps then our worship will be properly addressed in the right direction...towards our Lord who is above all.

Series on music in the church Part 1

I want to start this off with a couple of great articles by my friend and brother in the Lord- Scott MacIntyre.

Contemporary Music in the Church -
Culprit, Symptom, or Innocent Bystander

By Scott MacIntyre

Recently, I engaged in an e-mail discussion with someone who read my article "A Family's Purpose Driven Diversion". He was able to identify strongly with several areas of our unfortunate experience, the symptoms of which seem to be epidemic.

In a follow up e-mail, he asked if I thought that introducing contemporary music into a formerly traditional church was used as a tool to "introduce" or "soften up" the congregation to accept new thinking or teaching. Being the incredibly decisive fellow that I am, my immediate response was "yes", "no", and "maybe".

Clearly, there is evidence implicating contemporary worship as part of the process in 'transitioning' a church from traditional to a seeker-friendly or purpose driven church. My e-mail friend referenced an article from Rick Warren's "" web site entitled "How to Transition an Established Church". The article is actually the fourth part of a multi-part series of articles dealing with transition. This one was titled: "Changing Worship: How to Transition an Established Church - Part 4". The author, Chuck McAlister, provides advice on a variety of issues that a church is likely to face in transitioning from a traditional church to a purpose driven fellowship, which includes among others, preaching changes, hymn arrangements, introduction of other instruments, diversifying worship, and dealing with those who don't go along with the changes, including the staff.

McAlister focuses on bringing about large-scale changes in a church with incrementally small changes implemented over time. Imagery of the frog being boiled in the pot came to mind. McAlister's strategy proposed gradually replacing instruments such as the piano or organ with instruments more suitable to contemporary worship, and gradually replacing hymns with contemporary songs. He even suggests using more contemporary arrangements of hymns to ease in the process of transition. In reading through the articles, there was no doubt in my mind that this whole process was deceptive in nature, offering small appeasements along the way to accommodate for losses elsewhere. And this was clear not only in the area of music, but in teaching as well.

But as much as this 'bait and switch' strategy bothers me, I don't see contemporary worship as the culprit. Here's the problem that keeps us from fully implicating music...there are many churches who have had a contemporary music format for a long time, say 20 to 30 years, but who have not fallen prey to the PD structure, nor compromised the church by abandoning the teaching of the word. This style of music has been around quite a while now...from the early 70s. Pragmatism, accommodation, and non-biblical teaching have been around quite a bit longer. One can and does exist without the other. And yes, it is possible that a church can fail to teach the word and yet maintain a traditional music format in its services. There are churches steeped in tradition and traditional music, which shirked long ago from proclaiming God's word.

There are simply too many odd combinations of music and teaching to lead us to conclude that contemporary music is the culpable party in a church transitioning to purpose driven or seeker sensitive. Our preferences for style can lead us to be in suspicion of styles not of our choosing, and blame the fever for causing the virus. Of course, the pragmatic nature of seeker sensitive churches is to fashion elements of the church service after elements the so-called seeker is accustomed to, so it is not surprising that a seeker-friendly church would choose music of this contemporary era. But let's not allocate guilt on association.

Music is temporal, and in light of eternity, the style of music is momentary. Yes, we might continue to sing hymns, psalms, and other songs to the Lord in eternity, but music still belongs to an era. Music is stylistic as much as cars, hair, or clothes. Even in hymns and traditional music, you can observe stylistic changes from era to era. It wouldn't surprise me if hymn writers of 250 years ago would find the songs of the latter 1800s somehow offensive, yet both were acceptable in the traditional church in the 1900s.

And as music may belong to an era, the teaching of the word of God does not. The teachings of scripture remain today as they did hundreds and thousands of years ago. Man did not create scripture, and it is not subject to man's approval or stylistic preferences. The meaning of scripture does not change in time. And that is why I think these two issues are not even in the same world when it comes to criticism of the seeker-sensitive model for church. The real culprit, besides the obvious answer of satanic influence, is the very nature of man that wants to have his hand in building the church, and build it his way. Without any biblical precedence for pragmatism, man devises ways to build his church at the expense of teaching truth.

The focus of this whole debate of the seeker friendly/purpose driven legitimacy has to be on where it deviates from scripture, not where it deviates from our preferences. Those who focus on music or Warren's casual dress, or other peripheral issues of this movement have to do so outside of the influence of scripture. And in the process, they are drawing attention from the real issue of the biblical illegitimacy of the seeker friendly methodology.

As I read through the transitioning articles1 by Chuck McAllister, my heart ached that such manipulation is occurring in thousands of churches across the country. It is clearly an 'end justifies the means' mentality, which reeks with deception in pacifying the resistance into accepting a non-biblical church in slow, but deliberate methodical steps. If your pastor is bent on transitioning the church to a seeker friendly/purpose driven fellowship, you will see much more than just music changing in the coming months and years. Let us pray that 'frogs' everywhere will sense the heat, and take appropriate action before its too late. Meanwhile, if a guitar shows up on the platform of your church, don't assume you're being boiled alive.

Concluding Thoughts on Music: A Time for Grace

There is no other issue that has been as divisive as music has been in the church over the past 20 years. At one time, I believe that the issue of tongues and other gifts was the most divisive issue, but music has surpassed it. Yet, I know of no other issue that begs for grace from the hearts of Christians as much as music. Churches everywhere have struggled with trying to balance between a younger generation that seeks contemporary worship, and the older generation that desires to worship with the traditional hymns. Compromises abound, with churches toning down contemporary songs and sprucing up the hymns.

As each generation struggles with the loss of what was familiar, the music issue will continue to require us to be 'graceful' toward each other, knowing that while we may have liberty to prefer our own style of music, we don't always need to demand that liberty.

For those who believe the Purpose Driven Life is merely another devotional, I strongly recommend reading this series of articles by Chuck McAllister on transitioning the church to increase your awareness of what is happening in the church today. I also recommend that you spend much time in the New Testament as a Berean, to see if what he says has any scriptural basis.

Some really good article's to read

Thanks to Cassandrah Bayta for her comments on my blog.
Cassandra is a source ffor some very good information that will benefit and warn the Body of Christ.
I have read many of her articles and they are biblically based and well written.
Here is one of my favorites

20 mystical beliefs and practices to avoid.

It would be of great benefit to you to check out Cassandrah's articles

What is the true church?

This ia a part of a comment sent to me from a member of Rick Warrens Saddleback church.

"To a strict traditionalist the notion of orienting a church to the target market in order to win souls for Christ must be heresy. To a strict traditionalist, the pipe organ plays hymns, the worshippers sit in pews and gaze at the stained glass, the pastor wears a suit and tie, and the sermon gives a deep dive understanding of a passage providing the original Greek or Hebrew versions of the text so as to provide believers with a better understanding of scripture. That is well and good if your intent is to appeal to believers or save the already saved. I went to a church like that for 25 years. The choir's robes were neatly pressed. The organist played dutifully. The pews were comfortable and the message each week was very enlightening - to a believer. To a non-believer there was nothing to connect with. It looked like a club that a non-believer didn't belong in. Churches like the one I attended actually kicked out an entire ministry that was trying to reach people in a post-modern society. They weren't corrupting the gospel, merely using newer methods to bring people into the church to HEAR the gospel. But many strict traditionalists couldn't handle this new approach. You sound like one of those people"

In order to understand what a true church is you must first understand it is not a gathering of unbelievers but believers.
The word "church" comes from the Greek "ekklesia" which means "gathering" or "assembly." Therefore, the church is the gathering of the believers who come together to participate in fellowship with one another as they worship God and hear from His Word, the Bible.
Its really just that simple.
The church was never meant to be somewhere that unbelievers feel comfortable.
Notice I said comfortable not welcome.
But how did Rick Warren create his new religion.
Did he consult what scriptures state.
No not at all.
Instead he polled people who did not have the Holy Spirit to lead them into all truth.
But instead a unregenerate mind.
Rick asked them 4 questions.
*Why do you think most people dont attend church?
*If you were looking for a church, what things would you look for?
*What advice woudl you give to me as a pastor of a new church that really wants to be of benefit to the community?
* How could I, as a pastor, help you?
Again did Rick consult scripture or Christians on how to build a church.
Not at all!

Did Rick serve this up for the unsaved?
You betcha in spades thats why Saddleback and its fruit are such a flesh fest with pagan dancing and music that does not bring glory to God among other things that this false movement has bought forth.
The sad thing is there are people roaming these grounds that think they are ok with God and are treuly no saved.
Unsaved people will never feel conmfortable insurroundings where God is worshipped in spirit and in truth through music and the preaching of His word.
Unsaved people should always feel welcome in a true church.
However they will never feel comfortable in a true church until they are saved.

Rick Warren, humility, flattery and the antichrist

First of all I do want to state that I do not think Rick Warren is the antichrist himself that the Bible speaks of.
I do believe that Rick is both a false prophet and a false teacher though.
Here is what the Bible states about the antichrist.
Danial 8: 23- 25
"And in the latter time of their kingdom, When the transgressors have reached their fullness, A king shall arise, Having fierce features, Who understands sinister schemes.
His power shall be mighty, but not by his own power; He shall destroy fearfully, And shall prosper and thrive; He shall destroy the mighty, and also the holy people. (many good churches have been destroyed in the name of purpose driven).
Through his cunning He shall cause deceit to prosper under his rule; And he shall exalt himself in his heart.(arrogant attitude) He shall destroy many in their prosperity. He shall even rise against the Prince of princes; But he shall be broken without human means.

Here is what the Bible states about flattery-
Romans 16:18
For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.
Psalm 12:3
"May the LORD cut off all flattering lips, And the tongue that speaks proud things,

Now lets look at 1 John 4:5
They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them.
Matthew Henry's commentary on this-
"The false teachers spake of the world according to its maxims and tastes, so as not to offend carnal men. The world approved them, they made rapid progress, and had many followers such as themselves; the world will love its own, and its own will love it."

Now lets go to some Rick Warren comments from the Pew Forum-
"I am truly honored to be here. I really mean this. When I saw your names and who was going to be on this list, I thought, you know, these are men and women that I read all of the time and I respect, and I want to thank you for the columns and the articles that you write. Just to be sitting up here with David Brooks, I feel like we ought to reverse this, let him talk and let me comment on him because I love reading his stuff. I read all of your stuff all of the time and I just wanted to start off by saying thank you. Thank you for helping me grow, helping me develop. "

"I also wanted to come and challenge you to see your writing as a stewardship of influence. God has put you in this position. As you can imagine, I get a lot of invitations to speak – I get about four or five a day – and so I have been choosing pretty carefully which ones to accept. And I came here because I only speak to influencers, and God has given you a degree of influence. "

"You know, when you write the best-selling book in the world for the last three years, that changes your life and I'm not the same person I was three years ago. And, you know, maybe I can share that. "

"Bono called me the other day and said why don't you come up to the U2 concert at the Staples Center because we're both active in AIDS prevention. My wife and I have given millions to the prevention of AIDS and those afflicted and those orphaned by AIDS."
(my comments-Matt 6:3 "But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing," and this is not a one time deal Rick brags about his good works all the time).
Now back to Rick at the Pew forum-
"Another trend that I see is this 40 days phenomenon – this 40 Days of Purpose, which of course I'm right in the middle of. Ten percent of the churches in America have now done 40 Days of Purpose and that's just now. We will take another 10 to 15 thousand through it this year, and on and on and on. And there's a little story of how that got started in churches and then it spread to corporations like Coca-Cola and Ford and Wal-Mart, and they started doing 40 Days of Purpose. And then it spread to all the sports teams. I spoke at the NBA All-Stars this year because all of the teams were doing 40 Days of Purpose. LPGA, NASCAR, most of the baseball teams – when the Red Sox were winning the World Series, they were going through 40 Days of Purpose during the Series. So the story of the 40 Days of Purpose is more than the story of the book. And maybe we can get back to why that touched such a nerve around the world, because The Purpose Driven Life is not just the best-selling book in American history; it's the best-selling book in about a dozen languages. It's in about 30 languages right now and that's why I was at this meeting last night with the Spanish."
(my comments go back and read 1 John 4:5 again "They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them.")

back to Rick Warren and the Pew forum-
"I spoke at Harvard last month. I did a series of lectures for the faculty in the Kennedy School and also in the law school. I spoke to several groups of faculty and several groups of students and I started with this quote from Peter Drucker: "The most significant sociological phenonmenon of the first half of the 20th century was the rise of the corporation. The most significant sociological phenomenon of the second half of the 20th century has been the development of the large pastoral church – of the mega-church. It is the only organization that is actually working in our society." Now Drucker has said that at least six times. I happen to know because he's my mentor. I've spent 20 years under his tutelage learning about leadership from him, and he's written it in two or three books, and he says he think it's the only thing that really works in society. "

"I said we would never go on TV and we'd never go on the radio because I didn't want to be a celebrity. I think always being in the spotlight blinds you. "
( my comments-maybe Rick should have heeded his own warnings)

"And so, I'm not interested in trying to play policymaker; I'm trying to play pastor, which means asking questions like "How's your life doing?" "

"Well, okay, let me start backwards. On the Great Awakening, I am just seeing signs that people are more open to spirituality and talking about God than they've ever been before. When I went to Harvard a month ago, I honestly expected a pretty hostile audience – I'm an evangelical pastor and I'm going into Harvard. And I went in and I spoke four times and they gave me a standing ovation. "

"You see, here's the problem. My book happened to be published by Zondervan, which is owned by Harper-Collins, which is owned by Newscorp, which is owned by Rupert Murdoch. So when the book hit 15 million, I called up Rupert Murdoch and I said, "What are you going to do to celebrate my book?" And he goes, "Well, what do you want to do?" I go, "I want you to throw a party and I want you to invite all your secular elite friends from Manhattan and let me talk to them." And he goes, "Okay." (Chuckles.) So he sends out a list, he invited 350 people, who's who in Manhattan to the top of the Rainbow Room, and I went up there and you know, I just started talking to them – again, standing ovation."

"MR. WARREN: You know what? I believe I'm going to hell. I believe I'm going to hell if I don't do what God tells me to do. "

I want to end with this one verse that either Rick Warren does not understand or refuses to obey.

Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Belial?[a] Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? --II Corinthians 6:13-14


Breaking news from my friends at Sacred Sandwhich.

Wednesday, November 29, 2006

New from Herescope

From my brother and sisters in the Lord at Herescope. I find this secret meeting Warren is having with other pastors quite troubling. But somehow nothing suprises me about Slick Rick.
Here is the article-

Obama at Saddleback: The New Politics
Major players in the [Democratic] party — including Pelosi, Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) and Democratic National Committee (DNC) Chairman Howard Dean — have held and attended conferences in the faith community and met with bishops and religious leaders including Rick Warren, author of The Purpose Driven Life, and Bishop T.D. Jakes, who runs a popular megachurch in Texas. [emphasis added]["Democrats attempt to close the faith-gap with the GOP," July 12, 2006, by A.B. Stoddard]
Rick Warren was apparently quite unhappy with last week's press, some details of which are recorded in the previous Herescope post, about his recent foray into Syria as an American pastoral diplomat. For the first time he responded to criticism directly by issuing a statement to his Saddleback Family entitled MESSAGE THIS WEEKEND! that put forward the best "spin" on his recent controversial activities.
Rebutting the accuracy of Warren's statements was WorldNetDaily: "Rick Warren on Syria: 'A moderate country,' 11/26/06, and Sandy Simpson of Deception in the Church, "Rick Warren 'Explains' Himself," 11/25/06.
In Warren's letter defending of his recent activities, he denied several times that he was engaged in politics:
1. "But my visit [to Syria] was not political,…"
2. "Left or Right is irrelevant to me. I'm not a politician."
3. "Of course, you friends know my heart, my motivation, and my 26 year track record. What matters to me is not pleasure...possessions...prestige...politics...power.. or popularity. I couldn't care less about these things." [emphases added]
Perhaps Warren is naive about the political nature of an American evangelical leader of his stature hanging out with the internationalist big boys. Or perhaps he is being disingenuous. But in his letter to the Saddleback family he devoted an entire paragraph to outline some of his recent activities, which included:
"No matter where I've been invited to speak- to Congress, to the Davos World Economic Forum, at Harvard and Oxford and Cambridge, to the United Nations. to the Foreign Affairs Council…."
Obviously, these are politically-tinged events of the international variety. And this list is incomplete. An October 2005 Fortune magazine [] article by Marc Gunther, entitled "POWER PASTOR: Will Success Spoil Rick Warren - America's new superstar pastor wants to rebrand evangelical Christianity. He's got the management genius to do it. Here's where he's leading his troops," detailed a few of his other political-sounding endeavors, including:"…[T]he Aspen Ideas Festival, the Young Presidents Organization, a Pew Foundation forum for religion writers, and the University of Judaism.… He has gone before the Council on Foreign Relations to pitch his newest idea: a breathtakingly ambitious project to mobilize American Christians to fight poverty, illiteracy, and AIDS in Africa."
Again, these are not all apolitical organizations.
Rick Warren took particular umbrage, in his explanatory letter to the "Saddleback Family," to an apparent "blogpost" about his invitation to potential Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama to speak at his AIDS Conference this week. Warren wrote:
"Another blogger claimed I've invited Barack Obama to preach in my pulpit to the Saddleback congregation. Of course that is untrue. I'd never invite ANY politician to speak from the pulpit to our congregation. Never. …"
"Next week, the Global Summit on AIDS and the Church will be held on the Saddleback campus. It is not a church service, but an international summit for pastors and world leaders. Leaders from churches, denominations, health, NGOs, Christian organizations, governments, businesses, and entertainment will meet together to discuss how they can work with churches to end AIDS. Participants will hear messages from Laura Bush, Sen. Bill Frist, Sen. Sam Brownback, Bill Gates, Bono, the doctor who discovered AIDS transmission heterosexually, Franklin Graham, the President of World Vision, the President of World Relief, the President of Compassion, and about 30 other speakers who are concerned about AIDS. Sen. Obama is one speaker at a conference which includes Republicans and Democrats, Christians and non-Christians, pastors, business leaders, and all kinds of races from around the world. …" [emphasis added]
Well, isn't this global AIDS event political? Perhaps Barack Obama isn't technically "preaching" on a Sunday morning service behind Rick Warren's ministerial pulpit, but he certainly has been invited -- along with several other notable politicians -- to speak at the Global Summit on AIDS and the Church that will be held on the Saddleback campus this week. And the entire Global AIDS agenda, as has been documented elsewhere on this blog, represents a massive intermeddling of State, Church, non-profit organizations, mission groups, non-governmental agencies, the United Nations, multi-national corporations, foundations, and yes -- even political groups and parties.
And despite Warren's protests that he does not engage in politics, he has been actively working in the political realm to forge new political ties for evangelicals with the Democratic Party. For example, a news account from July 2006 entitled "Democrats attempt to close the faith-gap with the GOP" by A. B. Stoddard, describes Rick Warren's involvement with House Democratic Caucus Chairman James Clyburn (D-S.C.), a "minister’s son, handpicked by House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) to lead a new Faith Working Group as part of the party’s larger undertaking on values issues." Nancy Pelosi is now the Democratic Majority Leader in the U.S. House of Representatives. The article explained:
"Major players in the party — including Pelosi, Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) and Democratic National Committee (DNC) Chairman Howard Dean — have held and attended conferences in the faith community and met with bishops and religious leaders including Rick Warren, author of The Purpose Driven Life, and Bishop T.D. Jakes, who runs a popular megachurch in Texas." [emphasis added]
The article notes that these meetings were closed:
"The DNC’s interfaith program, known as Faith in Action, has employed staffers to reach out to the evangelical, Catholic, Muslim and Jewish faithful. The visits and conversations have been closed to press to foster candid, open discussions." [emphasis added]The purpose of such meetings? You guessed it! Politics!"Democrats are hoping the groundwork they are laying will broaden the values debate and ultimately help them capture the new voters necessary to reclaim majorities nationwide and win the White House in 2008.""Last month, when Democrats dominated a bipartisan event joining lawmakers, clergy and lay leaders to address poverty, at which Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) received national press for a rousing speech…." [emphasis added](For more information on the Democratic Party's Faith Working Group see, for example, and
One astonishing feature of Rick Warren's foray into Democratic Party politics this past year was the inclusion of his public relations manager, A. Larry Ross, mentioned in the same July news account:
"In searching for that winning formula, A. Larry Ross, a public-relations executive representing the top Christian leaders in the country who accompanied Warren on his visit with Senate Democrats in February, offered up a public-relations adage.
"'The largest number of people focused on the smallest point of agreement gives you your greatest impact,' he said."
Pardon our incredulity over his proclaimed innocence in politics, but why would Rick Warren -- who tries to be everybody's image of the casual-pastor-next-door -- need to take his hired PR guy into secret meetings with him? Unless, of course, he anticipated problems with his "image" if this type of information about his political activities ever came out in the public.
There are indeed "image" problems that arise from associating himself with political leaders like Barack Obama. The more controversial questions were raised on November 17th by WorldNetDaily in an news article entitled "Why is Obama's evil in Rick Warren's pulpit?"
"Rick Warren, the best selling author of 'The Purpose Driven Life' and senior teaching pastor at Saddleback Church in California, has invited Sen. Barack Obama to speak to the congregation of the faithful on Dec. 1, 2006. In doing so, he has joined himself with one of the smoothest politicians of our times, and also one whose wickedness in worldview contradicts nearly every tenet of the Christian faith that Warren professes.
It isn't just Barack Obama who is having "conversations" with Rick Warren. The list of Democratic leaders includes Hilary Clinton, another potential candidate for president. An 11/26/06 article in The Sunday Times [], "Obama lifted by hand of God," reveals that:
"Obama is scarcely the first Democrat to reach out to conservative Republicans: Senator Hillary Clinton, his main rival for the Democratic presidential nomination, has had her own contacts with Warren and has won widespread praise in Washington for her collaborative efforts with rightwingers on Capitol Hill. She has also carefully tailored her pronouncements on sensitive issues such as abortion to avoid confrontation with the religious right."
This article notes the very important political fact that:
"At first glance Warren and Obama appear the unlikeliest of allies — the conservative white preacher and the liberal black Democrat — yet aides to both confirmed last week that they have formed an intriguing friendship that may prove a key element in the next presidential campaign." [emphasis added]
It isn't just Rick Warren who is engaging in a new form of politics. A recent article in Christian Century (11/16/06) [] entitled "Influential dozen seek to help Democrats bridge 'God gap'" indicates that other noted evangelical leaders are being courted by Democrat Party leaders:
"…Democrats are seeking—and getting—regular meetings with megachurch pastors such as T. D. Jakes, Joel Osteen and Rick Warren." [emphasis added]
There seems to be more at issue here than Rick Warren and other evangelical leaders simply playing footsie with the Democrats in the back rooms. This whole affair is being played out globally with some serious consequences.
Today's WorldNetDaily news article [], "Rick Warren called 'enabler and defender' of evil: Megapastor's appearance in Syrian propaganda triggers criticism," is another serious look at the fallout from the Syria escapade. The article also calls attention to the fact that Rick Warren has experienced major public relations difficulties. Due to his religion? NO! It isn't a presentation of the Gospel message that is causing Warren such heated controversy. It is his engagement with global politics! And to his rescue is -- again -- A. Larry Ross, his personal P.R. escort:
"Warren, the pastor of Saddleback Church and the author of the best-selling 'The Purpose-Driven Life,' told WND when the comment first was reported that he had been misquoted, and further, he wasn't a diplomat and probably wasn't fully prepared for a situation in which he was used for propaganda.
"But a video posted on YouTube showed Warren making the statement, and when WND linked to it, it suddenly disappeared.
Larry Ross, who acts as a spokesman for the church, told WND the video showing Warren making the statement was removed because Warren had heard there were 'reports' about his Syrian visit, but not necessarily the reports from WND."The Warren YouTube postings had been ongoing as kind of a travelogue to his congregation, Ross said. But when Warren arrived in Rwanda from Damascus and found out there were concerns about his activities in Syria, he suggested that no video from Syria be posted. 'Let's not post one for Syria until we see where we're at,' Warren had said, according to Ross.
But it already had been put up, so it was pulled down, only a few hours after it was put up, Ross said. 'It was in the context of reports that they'd heard about, not specifically yours (WND's),' he said. 'It was obviously with the understanding or the awareness that there were some reports about the trip to Syria.'
"But before it was removed, Bruce Delay, a talk-show host at KFAQ 1170 in Tulsa, Oklahoma, downloaded the audio portion of Warren's comments,…."
This public relations campaign appears to be headed the wrong direction. For now, it seems strange -- again -- that Rick Warren needs to conduct his affairs so secretively. The Scriptures tell us that the Gospel is not to be hidden. However, in politics many things are hidden and secretive.
Which raises another interesting question. Why is there a need for Rick Warren to meet with pastors in the secretive manner he describes in a recent letter to Ministry Toolbox Subscribers?
"I’m writing to see if you could come to Saddleback for three days at the end of November. Two of those days will be the Global Summit on AIDS and the Church (Nov. 30-Dec.1), but the first day will be a private Conversation about Tomorrow with Senior Pastors (Nov. 29). This will be a by-invitation-only, off-the-record, not-open-to-the-public full day of conversation with senior pastors. I’d like for you to join us.
"Conversation about Tomorrow for Senior Pastors will be a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for senior pastors across America to think deeply together about the direction of our ministries, about personal renewal, church renewal, and cultural renewal in the 21st century. We’ll consider how to network more effectively, and I’ll share some things I’ve been quietly working on. In my heart, I know this day with senior pastors will be history making, a beginning point of the 21st century. There’s no cost to attend the Conversation About Tomorrow for Senior Pastors, but you’ll need an invitation ticket. If you can attend, I will send you some reading material in advance that I want you to be thinking about." [emphasis added]
Once again, the Global P.E.A.C.E. Plan is being conducted in a disturbing manner that is less than open and above reproach.
The Truth:
"Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:" (2 Corinthians 4:1-3)

Popular culture

Even though I do not agree with every aspect of this article I believe its still something to think about.
I am not a reconstructionist.
One who thinks America needs to be or is a Christian nation.
But the facts are undeniable that America used to be a more moral nation (at times) with a heavy Christian influence.
Because Christians were obeying Christs commandment to be salt and light.
This is long gone because guys like Schuller , Hybels and Warren have effectively bought the world into the church instead of being salt and light to the world and bringing the church to the world.
And if thats not the tail wagging the dog I dont know what is.
Here is the article

Popular Culture: How Should A Christian Respond?
By Chuck Edwards

Francis Schaeffer once wrote that the secular philosophies of intellectuals filter down to the general population through the arts, becoming what we call “popular culture.” Thus, pop culture is the prevailing worldview expressed primarily through blockbuster movies, best-selling novels, “top-forty” music, highly rated television shows, the visual arts, and advertising.


George Lucas clearly understands his role as a film writer and director. He revealed, “I’ve always tried to be aware of what I say I my films because all of us who make motion pictures are teachers… teachers with very loud voices.”[1]
It doesn’t take much insight to understand the kind of teaching Lucas is doing through his art. In fact, the director of Lucas’ second Star Wars episode, Irvin Kershner, admitted, “I wanna introduce some Zen here because I don’t want the kids to walk away just feeling that everything is shoot-em-up, but that there’s also a little something to think about here in terms of yourself and your surroundings.”[2] As it turns out, Zen Buddhism and New Age philosophy permeates the entire Star Wars series.
Another screenwriter, David Franzoni, the main writer and producer of both Gladiator as well as the 2004 feature film, King Arthur, said in an interview, “That’s the whole point of writing to me: to change the world through your art.” He went on to say that Gladiator “…is about a hero who has morality, but that morality is a secular morality that transcends conventional religious morality…”[3] According to Franzoni, Christian morality is out, “secular” morality is in, and this is made clear in his screenplay.


In light of these kinds of anti-biblical bias, what should a follower of Jesus Christ do? Christians can't settle for being passive consumers of pop culture. Instead, we are called to be discerning shapers of culture.
In fact, being culture shapers is not optional for a believer. The Cultural Commission was given to Adam and Eve in Genesis 1:28. God, after creating the universe, earth, the garden, and mankind, turns over to man and woman the responsibility to care for and develop what he has created. This involves every aspect of creation, from naming animals to establishing civil government (see Genesis 9:6 where God commands man to rule over his fellow man by bringing to justice those who commit evil.)
This theme of influencing culture continues into the New Testament. Jesus, in Matthew 5:13-16, referred to his followers as the “salt” and “light” of society—that which flavors and preserves His social order. Only believers, living in the power of Christ’s Spirit, can provide a positive model for and bring health and healing to the social order. This means that Christians should be discerning about popular worldview messages in order to “take every thought captive” to Jesus Christ and not be “taken captive” by deceitful philosophies (see Colossians 2:6-8).


Discernment is the ability to distinguish between good and evil (Heb. 5:14). Discernment also involves making wise choices. As we face the trials of living in a culture that is increasingly hostile to biblical teaching, we should ask God to give us wisdom (James 1:5).
The “Wisdom Literature” of the Bible calls on us to make judgments between alternative choices. We are to think hard as well as humbly, using Godly principles as well as our common sense to make the best judgments concerning how to engage today’s culture. This implies that in many areas of life, the choice is not always black and white. Often, we must choose between the better and the best.
For example, the Apostle Paul warns that even though something may be permissible, it may not be beneficial or constructive (1 Corinthians 10:23-33). He illustrates his point by suggesting how believers should involve themselves with the pagan culture of their day. It is permissible, writes Paul, to eat in a non-believer’s home, even enjoying meat that has been sacrificed to idols, so as not to offend their hosts. This practice ran contrary to the Jewish tradition of his day, which called on practicing Jews to avoid eating with non-Jews.


Learning to be discerning enables the Christian to avoid two undesirable extremes: what Brian Godawa describes as cultural anorexia and cultural gluttony. Anorexia is avoiding the culture altogether. On the other hand, cultural gluttony ignores how popular culture affects us, for good and evil, and takes it all in indiscriminately, consuming everything in front of us.
A third alternative for the Christian is to engage the culture: “interacting redemptively” with non-believers by understanding the good things in our popular culture and using those as a bridge to God’s truth.
Again, Paul models for us how to engage the culture when he spoke before the religious and civic leaders of Athens (recorded in Acts 17). Here we see Paul as a student of his culture; he did not try to isolate himself from it. He had studied the religious worldviews of his day, even looking “carefully” at their idols. In his speech before the Athenian leaders, he quoted from their own pagan poets and philosophers (apparently from memory). He discerned what was true in their pagan worldview and used that as a starting point to present what they had missing concerning God’s true nature, man’s true nature, and God’s redemptive plan through Jesus Christ.
Based on a biblical worldview, if our culture is tasteless and wicked it is because Christians are not doing their job! We cannot point fingers of blame at non-believers if our society is deteriorating. Non-Christians are simply living according to their view of life. Therefore, those of us who understand the truth must live it out on every level of society, from the boardroom to the classroom and the courtroom, and yes, even the sound stage. There is no area of society that is outside God’s concern. Cultural discernment and engagement are part of our Christian calling.

1) Engaging Popular Culture: Worldviews in Movies and Music (Four-part DVD set) - An entertaining and educational multi-media presentation featuring clips from award winning movies and lyrics from popular songs revealing significant themes that shape our culture. The four presentations discuss biblical guidelines for encouraging Christians to be more discerning when it comes to their entertainment choices. Presented by Chuck Edwards, popular speaker for Summit Ministries. Purchase online:

2) Brian Godawa, Hollywood Worldviews, (InterVarsity, 2002)

Note: This article originally appeared in Summit Ministries' Truth and Consequences, November, 2004 ( For more about Summit Ministries' unique worldview training conferences for students and adults, go to

Do unbelievers have more discernment than believers?

I had a great conversation with my brother in the Lord Sandy Simpson earlier this week.
The topic came up on why is it that unbelievers seem to be wiser than Christians these days.
Most unbelievers could turn on their TV's and see Benny Hinn and Robert Titon and know not to send them any money.
Yet many believers continue to make false teachers and prophets rich.
Other unbelievers turn on folks like Joel Osteen and just laugh.
Many so called believers think Joel Osteen preaches great and of course puts on a great show.
Many unbelievers have read Purpose Driven Life and know that the book is focused on me-self. And of course they like that.
Why is it that many Christian dont realize that Purpose Driven is nothing less than another good self help book thats flavored with Christianity.
The book certainly doesnt offend any non Christians thats why so many secular companies have purchased it and promote it.
Jesus and His truth offends unbelievers thats a fact.

We really need to get a clue.
It should be scary to us in the Body of Christ that the secular media exposes the false teachers in Christianity more thoroughly than the majority of so called believers.
Is it perhaps we rely to much on our own wisdom rather than allowing the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth.
Let me ask you .
Does your ear itch?

Is it that our own agendas lead us to make bad choices and follow false teachers.
I know I have made that mistake.
I played for a false teacher in California and remained there just because the gig was so good and I got to play with famous people.
My sin was worse of all.
I knew the teaching was false and I remained there for a time anyway because I wanted to play.
God forgive me.
My love of music overshadowed my love for the truth.
I took part in manipulating audiences (what the church calls congregations) into thinking that Gods presence was there.
When in fact it was not because God never competes for attention.
This week I am writing a couple of articles and will have a series on how music is used to manipulate in the church.
I can write on this topic because I know how to manipulate through music.
Stay Tuned
James 5:16 "Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."
And I hope those who have been manipulated by music in their church (by musicians such as myself who took part in the deception) will be healed.


I have found it interesting on all those who have come to Rick Warrens defense of having Barak Obama Speak at Saddleback.
Barak's pro-views on abortion are will known and the Christian community has cried out to Slick Rick on his poor choice of speakers.
I wonder how Ricks spin doctor will try to distort this one.
It has also been suggested that perhaps Obama will get the word of God spoke to him at Saddleback and his views on abortion will change.
Thats laughable.
Warren picks and chooses when to even speak about Jesus who he proclaims to believe in.
I doubt whether Obama will get the word of God at Saddleback.
Maybe the word of fraud.

It really is a no brainer on the topic of abortion though.
Abortion kills a defenseless baby.
Its really as simple as that.
Could you imagine the apostles debating abortion?
Whether or not to allow it to save the life of a mother or in which case to allow it.
The killing of a baby would not have even been a topic.
Thats what Herod liked to do.
It would have been a non-issue.

Why is it we dont get it now?
How low can so called believers go?
We should minister in love to those who have made the wrong choice and had their baby killed.
We are all sinners anyway.
But lets call sin what it is.
And not encourage it in any way.

Rick Warren from the pew forum-

MR. WILLIAMS: So on abortion, you're strongly pro-life; is that right?

MR. WARREN:" Sure, I am. It's just not the only thing on the agenda. Of course, if I believe every child is born for a purpose – and in Psalm 139 it says, "I formed you for a purpose in your mother's womb" – then obviously I would believe that abortion short circuits a person's purpose. Sure, but that's not the only issue. A lot of political issues are really what I call heart projection. That is, in the book, I talk about how we're all wired different ways to care about different things. If we all cared about the same thing, a lot would get undone in the world. For instance, I don't know anybody who doesn't believe that the environment isn't important, but some people really care about the environment – it's like they're rabid about it. Well, fine. I think it's important to take care of the environment; it's just not my passion. Some people are really rabid about protecting the rights of the unborn. I happen to believe the rights of the unborn need to be protected, but I'm just not rabid about it. I happen to be rabid about some other things. Why? Because we're all passionate about different things. Now, what happens is, when I force you to say you must feel as passionate as I do about this particular issue, whether you're a believer or not, then that's going to create political conflict. "

I guess the death of millions of babies a year doesnt stir Warrens passion enough to not let someone like Obama speak at his church.
Rick's own agenda seems to be more important than the killing of the innocent and helpless.

Tuesday, November 28, 2006

Encouragement for the Body of Christ

It seems sometime like the church has gone nuts with everything out there with all the agendas going on at once. Here is some encouragement for the little flock passed on to you from my brothers and sisters at Lighthouse Trails.

This past week we received emails and phone calls from believers who have had to leave their churches. In nearly every case, they were leaving because of spiritual formation programs, which included contemplative spirituality, emerging church ideas, and/or a Purpose Driven agenda. For some, they were asked or told to leave. Others were leaving because they were concerned about their children and what they were being taught. For many, they were leaving behind family and friends ... and for most, they had been treated badly by church leadership when they tried to warn them and others about the spiritual deception taking place. To those of you who are standing for the faith in the midst of such difficulty, we are thankful that the Lord has given you strength, and we pray you will be comforted.

"Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life."
John 8:12"Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee." Deuteronomy 31:6

Play it again sam

Time to read this article again folks

Real Conspiracies -- Part 3
Transforming the World by Subverting the Church
Berit Kjos - October 2006
See Part 1: Real Conspiracies -- Past and Present
Part 2: Treason in the Church: Trading Truth for a "Social Gospel"
Emphasis added in bold letters
Skip down to
Cizik & NAE
"...we have seen how Dr. Walter Rauschenbusch... and the leaders of the social-action movements in the churches decided to do away with Christian individualism and turn to outright collectivism, using the church as their instrument.... Religion was only a means toward achieving socialism. And, like all other false prophets who have infiltrated religion through he centuries, [Rauschenbusch] used a 'front' or disguise. This disguise, as we have seen, was 'The Kingdom of God.' The Kingdom was not pictured as a spiritual society into which men and women had to be born as individuals through a personal relationship with Jesus Christ as Savior, but as a collectivist society which would be brought about by... eradication of poverty, redistribution of wealth... and 'economic justice.'"[1] Edgar Bundy, Collectivism in the Churches.
"Rockefeller promoted universal ecumenism by stating in December 1917... 'I see all denominational emphasis set aside....I see the church molding the thought of the world... I see it literally establishing the Kingdom of God on earth."[2] Dr. James W. Wardner, Unholy Alliances: The Secret Plan and the Secret People who are Working to Destroy America.
Conspiracies have battered the Church for 2000 years -- just as God warned us. Ever since Jesus walked the narrow streets of Jerusalem, spiritual battles have challenged Christians to stand firm on His Word and resist the wide ways of the world. Today the battles rage as fiercely as ever.
The Social Gospel of the early 20th century shifted the focus of many church leaders from God's unchanging Word to the world's pliable illusions. Socialist seminary professors, pragmatic pastors, and deluded idealists validated their visions with hand-picked Bible verses that "fit" their social message. "Offensive" words like sin and redemption were redefined, contextualized or ignored. No need for the cross, since all people were considered essentially good.
Naturally, as socialist ideals tore away at the old Biblical barriers to spiritual pluralism, the change process accelerated. Even "conservative" pastors -- like their purpose-driven guides -- began to view Christianity primarily as good "deeds, not creeds."[3]
Transformational tactics
In Part 2, we documented these early strategies, patterned after the Kremlin's plan for the Soviet "church."
Infiltrate church institutions.
Adapt the Communist social campaign to America's unique beliefs, wants, and values.
Concentrate on seminaries where each new convert learns to influence thousands.
Divert the heart and purposes of the Church from the spiritual to the material.
Demonstrate tolerance toward beliefs and values that clash with God's Words.
"It’s not just tolerance, it’s to go beyond tolerance, to principle pluralism, which... means no religion has a privileged place," said Richard Cizik, who represented the National Association of Evangelicals (NAE) at the prestigious 2006 Clinton Global Initiative conference. "I would say one step even further, which is to say partnership.... The fundamentalists have a pessimistic view of the future and they have this perception, unlike evangelicals and liberal Christians, that there’s an unbridgeable divide between the believer and the unbeliever.... We don’t believe that."[4]
Of course they don't. God's Word clashes with the world's vision of pluralism! That's why Jesus said, "If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.... If they persecuted Me they will persecute you... for they do not know the One who sent Me." John 15:19-20
The world readily accepts Christian love, charity, and willingness to serve the needy. It just can't accept the source of that love. It wants the fruit of God's Spirit but transplants its roots into the soil of humanism. To succeed in this assault, it fine-tunes the following strategies:
1. Infiltration, then mass conversion to a counterfeit system. In Part 2, we looked at some revealing testimonies given by former Communist leader Manning Johnson before the Committee on Un-American Activities of the U.S. House of Representatives in 1953. Here are a few more:
"The plan was to make the seminaries the neck of a funnel through which thousands of potential clergymen would issue forth, carrying with them, in varying degrees, an ideology and slant which would aid in neutralizing the anti-Communist character of the church and also to use the clergy to spearhead important Communist projects....
"This policy was successful beyond even Communist expectations. The combination of Communist clergymen, clergymen with a pro-Communist ideology, plus thousands of clergymen who were sold the principle of considering Communist causes as progressive... furnished the Soviet apparatus with a machine which was used as a religious cover for the overall Communist operation."[5]
Of course, they wouldn't call it Communism. Words like compassion and world service felt far better.
2. Communitarian partnerships
Today, more than a decade after the supposed "death of Communism," a more pleasing version is rising like the mythical phoenix out of its own ashes. It's new label? Communitarianism! Like the old system, this upgraded version would control the masses through universal surveillance, personal data files, and a hierarchy of groups or councils (originally called soviets). It's already being marketed to the public as decentralized leadership, sustainable development, supportive networks, and voluntary service.
Does it sound confusing? Here is a simple formula: Communitarian systems are based on networks of "partnerships" between the public sector (government), private sector (business) and social sector (civil society, including churches). In other words, social sector "volunteers" would serve the government (ultimately the UN agenda) providing most of the "social services" needed for the global welfare state.
The catch? The private and the social sectors must conform to the standards (personal, performance, development, etc.) determined by the public sector (the government). Instead of owning everything, it would just control everything. Its standards already include "mental health," which involve pluralistic guidelines for religion and values." So within this "compassionate" and "tolerant" socialist system, Christians would no longer be free to serve God as He leads. And this is just the beginning!
As mass movements such as Rick Warren's Purpose-Driven PEACE Plan enter into partnerships with the United Nations, White House, CFR and other governmental and policy making institutions, they are pressed into an ever-changing consensus pattern.[6] To continue their determined march toward "success" (based on unconditional relationships and measurable results) they bind themselves to the evolving regulation of the global management system.
3. Collective thinking.
Purpose-Driven and Church Growth movements -- as well as the secular transformational networks driven by Peter Senge and Peter Drucker -- emphasize relational vitality and collective thinking. As Manning Johnson testified, group thinking and interdependent relationships are powerful weapons against individual resisters and a Bible-trained conscience:
"The Communists have an advantage in religious organizations due to the fact that their forces within religious groups are well organized as a totalitarian group. This gives this destructive element a great tactical advantage over all others in the religious organizations who deal with religion as individuals, operating ethics on the basis of an individual conscience before God...."
"Communist strategists counted the effectiveness of their forces not so much on numbers alone, but on the importance of individuals loyal to communism in key spots where a small group can influence large numbers.... Thus, one professor of divinity, lecturing to future clergymen, who in turn will preach to thousands of churchgoers, is, in the long run, more dangerous than 20 Red preachers, singing the praises of communism from the pulpit....
"...if an infiltrated body has 1 per cent Communist Party members and 9 per cent Communist Party sympathizers, with well-rehearsed plans of action, they can effectively control the remaining 90 per cent who act and think on an individual basis. In the large sections of the religious field, due to the ideological poison which has been filtered in by Communists and pro-Communists through seminaries, the backlog of sympathizers and mental prisoners of Socialistic ideology is greater than the 10 percent necessary for effective control."[7]
4. Small groups and the dialectic process
To "control the remaining 90 per cent" who act and think on an individual basis, former Communist leaders assigned all their subjects -- workers, managers, prisoners and students -- to local "soviets" (groups or councils) where they were trained in Georg Hegel's dialectic process. They had to
"Share" thoughts and notions. [Now cheered as "authenticity"]
"Confess" contrary attitudes. [Brainwashing and "Education Reform"]
Write "self-criticisms" for group evaluation. [When Iron Gates Yield]
"Celebrate" Communist ideals and heroes
"Commit" themselves to follow the group consensus.
Practice what the group (led by the facilitator) decides. [PRAXIS]
This dialectic process is now the centerpiece of the world's management systems. Designed to conform all minds to a common vision and mission (purpose), it calls for ground rules that ban divisive truths but demand tolerance for the world's corrupt values. [8]
This process was described in our article "Small Groups and the Dialectic Process," which summarizes the strategies taught in Leading Congregational Change (LCC). "This is a book you ought to read before you change anything," wrote Rick Warren in his hearty endorsement on the back cover.[9]
The LCC shows us that the dialectic group doesn't operate in a vacuum. It's part of a system that controls the planned transformation with vision-casting, team-building, top-down standards, force field analysis, capacity building, and service learning. To persuade church members to go along with the transformation, leaders must continually create tension through crisis, thus arouse dissatisfaction. Forget God's call to "be content" in Him. That doesn't fit the plan for continual change through unceasing agitation.
This unbiblical program follows the same Total Quality Management model embraced by governments, corporations, education systems, the United Nations and other organizations around the world. Do you wonder where the Holy Spirit fits into this scheme?
Written by James H. Furr, Mike Bonem, and Jim Herrington, the LCC was published by Jossey-Bass, which works closely with the Peter Drucker Foundation (renamed Leader to Leader). "We thank Rick Warren," it tells us, "for the opportunity to reach and refine our understanding of congregational transformation as part of Saddleback Valley Church's Purpose-Driven Church Conference. ... We also saw many applications in Peter Senge's The Fifth Discipline...."[10]
When assigned to a group, members are encouraged to eat together, play together, serve the community together, and do short-terms mission trips together. There's nothing wrong with Christian togetherness. But in this context -- created by trained facilitator/leaders -- every event becomes a practice session (praxis) in group dialogue and "Repressive Tolerance." The latter refers to "intolerance against movements from the right, and toleration of movements from the left." [See "Cultural Marxism" and "Three kinds of group relationships."][11]
Resisting Deception
Well aware of the struggles and temptations His people would face, God gave us Scriptures that both warn and equip us. Here are three worth remembering:
"As you have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving. Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ." Colossians 2:6-9
"And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works." 2 Corinthians 11:13-15
But "thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable...." 1 Corinthians 15:56
See also Dealing with Resisters, The 21st Century Church, and The Mind-Changing Process.
1. Edgar C Bundy, Collectivism in the Churches: A documented account of the political activities of the Federal, National, and World Councils of Churches (Wheaton, Illinois: Church League of America, 1957), page 101.
2. Dr. James W. Wardner, Unholy Alliances: The Secret Plan and the Secret People who are Working to Destroy America, 1996, page 154.
3. Warren's P.E.A.C.E. Plan and UN Goals - Part 3 at
4. Clinton Global Initiative: Mitigating Religious and Ethnic Conflict at
5. Committee on Un-American Activities of the U.S. House of Representatives, 83rd Congress, in July, 1953, page 2229. Cited by Bundy, pages 127-128.
6. Equipping Leaders to 'Lead like Jesus'? at
7. Committee on Un-American Activities, page 2278.
8. Reinventing the World at
9. James H. Furr, Mike Bonem and Jim Herrington, Leading Congregational Change (San Francisco: Jossey-Bass, 2000). Back cover.
10. Ibid., Acknowledgements.
11. &

Monday, November 27, 2006

Another Rick Warren email

Here goes I will comment at the end of the email

Pastor Rick <> wrote: From: "Pastor Rick" <> Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 22:47:43 -0800 Subject: ABOUT RWANDA Dear Saddleback Family, I've been to Rwanda many times but the past four days were the most exciting, fulfilling, and amazing I've ever experienced. The PEACE plan is working!! It is not just an idea anymore. We are seeing an entire nation being transformed before our eyes. The stories make your heart beat faster. The church leaders from 70 different denominations met together at a an Anglican retreat center for five days, studying the principles of PD Church, PD Life, Preaching, and PEACE. By the end of the week, they were so unified and on fire for God, there was no doubt that God's hand is on Rwanda. At the same time, 200 local church pastors that have been going through a three year training process were meeting for four days at a church in Kigali for a separate training event. The enthusiasm these guys have for the purpose driven strategy is contagious. With little education and no money, they are accomplishing far more than many American churches. On our last night, 700 leaders from business, government, and churches gathered in the ballroom of the Intercontinental Hotel to celebrate the publication of Purpose Driven Life in the Kinyarwanda language. The testimonies about the book's impact were so sincere and moving. Archbishop Emmanuel Kolini referred to the gut-wrenching agony Rwanda experienced when a million people were murdered in the genocide and then concluded "The Purpose Driven Life has been the handkerchief of hope that wiped away the tears in our eyes!" People spontaneously broke out into applause. Thank you dear church, for your love and commitment to helping others around the world. Over and over, people expressed their gratitude for the Saddleback PEACE teams who've already served in Rwanda. An entire nation is grateful for you. YOU are making a huge difference in the world. ABOUT THIS WEEKEND This weekend we start celebrating the thanksgiving season together. Don't miss this encouraging service. We'll also express our thanks to God by giving our FOR THE NEXT GENERATION offerings and commitments. I'm praying for you as you as God stretches your faith and generosity. I love you, and I love being your pastor. Pastor Rick P.S. This past week I've been called every name in the book, for our trip to Syria. Let me thank each of you who have prayed for our team and written such supporting words of encouragement. You have no idea how much your love means to me.

My comments-
Notice this-"The Purpose Driven Life has been the handkerchief of hope that wiped away the tears in our eyes!"

Jesus Christ should be the hope. Saved Christians know that Jesus is our only hope not The Purpose Driven book or program which does not even present the gospel of Jesus Christ in the way scripture presents the real Good News.
No mention of Jesus at all in the email. What a new tragedy for the people of Rwanda.
The Purpose Driven Life is Rick Warren and his followers bible. There Good news.
How sad for Rwanda.
Rick took heat for his trip to Syria because he lied and he met with a terroist nation that hates the Jews as well as America.
Again the focus is all on Ricks programs and Ricks solutions which are not biblically based.
Instead Rick just adds a little Christian flavor when it suits his purposes.
Please pray fro the people in Rwanda and those who have been deceived world wide.

2 Timothy 4:3-4 " For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears.
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth and shall be turned unto fables."

2Thess 2:10-12 "And with all decivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for that cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.
That they might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

... and all liars.. by Sandy Simpson

Revelation 21:8 " But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." (NASB)

Lying is a problem for all people (Ps. 116:11). We are all sinners (Rom. 3:23). Those of us who are Christians are "sinners saved by grace" (Eph. 2:8) indwelt by the Holy Spirit in our "new self" (Col. 3:10). But we still live in our "old self" which we must "put off" (Eph. 4:20-25) by taking up our cross daily and following Christ (Luke 9:23). The difference between unbelievers and those who are truly born again is that believers no longer "practice sin" (1 John 3:9, see my Bible study on 1 John!) They have the indwelling Holy Spirit (Rom. 8:11) who convicts them when they lie (John 16:8). True believers then repent (1 John 1:9) and go on to "practice righteousness" (1 John 2:29) with the Lord's help. The unregenerate, the false brothers, or those who have fallen away (Gal. 5:4, Mark 4:17), practice lying. They practice a lifestyle of lying because their consciences are seared (1 Tim. 4:2) and the Holy Spirit, when convicting them, cannot break through the hardness of their unrepentant hearts (Eph. 4:17-19, Heb. 3:13).

1 Timothy 4:2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. (NIV)Those we expose as false apostles, false teachers, false prophets and false Christs on the ACT web site are hypocritical liars who practice lying as a lifestyle. They lie when they say the Lord told them something and it is proven not to be true. They lie when they claim to be able to transfer Holy Spirit anointings. They lie when they claim to be healing people or raising the dead when they are not. They lie when they teach things that are against the cores doctrines of the Bible and yet they claim to have some newer revelation. They lie when they say they either can't remember teaching heresy when confronted with the facts, or that they never taught it. They lie about their associations with certain groups and individuals when they think they will get into trouble with biblical believers. They lie when they are put to the test and keep on lying without repentance. This is how you can know your true brothers in the Lord and those who claim to be brothers but are actually false brethren.

1 John 3:7-10 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother. (NASB)Those who practice lying as a lifestyle, according to John, are actually of the devil. They may claim to be followers of Jesus Christ (Matt. 7:21-23). They may speak high sounding words, have millions of followers and maybe even perform great signs and wonders (Matt. 24:24). But if they are liars they show who their father is (John 8:43-45).
They will commit heinous sins and then, after they are caught, they confess. But when they confess they only confess to what they were caught doing or think they might be prosecuted for, and then they continue to lie about the rest. Their confessions are only political in nature, done to please men, but are not true repentance. Then in a few months they are back preaching the same lies and living to please their appetites because their "mentors", "counselors" and followers allow them to continue in the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed.

Eph. 4:20-25 But you did not learn Christ in this way, if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as truth is in Jesus, that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth. Therefore, laying aside falsehood, speak truth each one of you with his neighbor, for we are members of one another. (NASB)Those who are true believers will stay away from false brethren because they are wolves who have slipped into the Church in order to try to bring true believers into bondage again to sin.

Galatians 2:4 But it was because of the false brethren secretly brought in, who had sneaked in to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, in order to bring us into bondage. (NASB) Matt. 7:15-16 "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? (NASB)False brethren bring the Truth into disrepute.
2 Pet. 2:1-3 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping. (NIV)What is their fruit? Not the fruit of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22-23) but the fruit of unrighteousness.

Gal 5:19-21 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. (NIV) Matt. 7:18-20 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.There is a lesson for all true believers in recent events. Have nothing to do with deeds of darkness perpetrated by false brothers. Reject heresy. Mark and avoid false teachers.
Ephesians 5:11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. (NIV) Titus 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; (KJV) Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. (KJV)

Have you been to Saddleback?

I get this comment a lot.
Have you actually been to Saddleback and went to a service. If not why criticize them?
Well folks I don't need to go to a Benny Hinn rally to know what Benny Hinn is all about.
The church I just to attend in Modesto went yearly to Saddlebacks music conferance.
Plus I have had friends who have played there at the music conferance.
My friends at Fido Blog to a trip there as well.

But here is the top ten reasons I would not go to a Saddleback service.
10. I don't need my felt needs met-Jesus supplies my needs.
9. I don't own a hula skirt.
8. I own a real Bible translation.
7. Ive already been to a Amway convention so whats the point.
6. I don't agree with contemplative prayer and holy yoga.
5.If I want to watch a show I'll go to a concert.
4. If I want to hear Mike and the Mechanics or Paul Simon (Rich rips of Paul Simons "You can call me Al" in his song "Wonders of God) I'll go see the real artist's performance.
3. If I want to see a circus I'll wait until Ringling Brothers is in town.
2. I want to hear Gods word not Ricks word preached.
And the number one reason for no attending a Saddleback service is this.
1. Rick started this church by supplying and polling the unsaved (Ala Schuller) on what they wanted. The root of this church is evil. Not Biblically based.

So again purpose driven bots I pray that God opens your eyes really.
Life is not purpose driven but Spirit led.
The church is for believers, believe it or not.
Unsaved people should never feel comfortable around music or preaching that is focused on a Holy God.

Does the unsaved feel comfortable in your church?

They should feel loved and welcomed by the people in a church.

But never comfortable when a Holy God inhabits the praises of His people and preaching thats inspired by a pastor seeking the Holy Spirit on his knees.

Sunday, November 26, 2006

More on U2 and Bono

Is Bono a Christian or is he part of forming the one world religion Rick Warren , The New Apostolic Movement and others are currently forming.
By the way read your Bibles. The Word of God predicts this all.
This should be of no suprise to anyone currently reading scripture.
You decide what Bono is after reading this.

Apostasy? More Churches Rock Communion With U2Added: Nov 24th, 2006 10:32 AMChurch rolls with U2's rockIrish band's songs are part of services
By Sandi Dolbee
ENCINITAS – There were lightsticks and earplugs. People danced and clapped. But this was no concert. This was church.Yesterday, as the sun went into its evening descent, St. Andrew's Episcopal Church in Encinitas joined a growing list of congregations around the world who are blending the music of the Irish rock band U2 with special Communion services. The result is something being called a “U2 Eucharist” – or “U2charist” for short.The music is rock – but the message is the rock of ages.“It's all about reaching out to the least among us,” said the Rev. Wesley Hills, the church's rector who briefly wore sunglasses, like lead U2 singer Bono, as he welcomed a packed sanctuary.The mission of the U2 Eucharist movement is to help the United Nations achieve the eight Millennium Development Goals it adopted in 2000, which pledges to eradicate poverty and disease by the year 2015, Hills told the congregation. To that end, last night's offering will be donated to Episcopal Relief and Development.U2's music is used because Bono, the band's lead singer and a Christian, is the global ambassador for the millennium campaign. At a National Prayer Breakfast in Washington D.C. earlier this year, Bono described the goals as “the Beatitudes for a globalized world.”But the popular U2 songs also are seen as metaphors for faith and justice, with the lyrics packed with multiple meanings and pointed challenges. “One love, one blood, one life, you got to do what you should,” the congregation sang after the sermon. “Heaven on Earth, we need it now,” they sang during the offering. “One step closer to knowing, one step closer to knowing,” they sang as they headed up the aisle to take Communion.Teenagers like 14-year-old Ivy Deane of St. Andrew's pronounced the U2 Eucharist “really cool.”Bob Bauer, who is a member of St. Luke's Episcopal Church in North Park and is 56, also liked it. “I thought it really was calling us to put into action what Christ was calling us to do and that's be his hands on Earth,” he said.In all, more than 350 people attended yesterday evening's service. “It's like Easter or Christmas,” said Michael May, one of the head ushers, as he surveyed the packed pews.At least one other church has held a U2 Eucharist in San Diego County. In the last two years, dozens of such services have been held as far away as Australia. Most of the hosts have been Episcopal congregations, but the list also includes Roman Catholic, Lutheran, United Methodist and United Church of Christ, among others.Last year, St. George's Episcopal Church in York Harbor, Maine, became one of the first to hold a U2 Eucharist. “It spread like wildfire,” said St. George's rector, the Rev. Paige Blair, who is now co-authoring a book on the movement and has become a kind of guru for these services.Blair said additional U2 Eucharist services already are scheduled into 2007 – including one in England to be broadcast on Easter Sunday. “It's pretty exciting and a little overwhelming,” Blair said in a telephone interview from Maine.Why is it so popular? “We're giving people a way to engage their faith in the world in a meaningful way,” she said.Blair estimates that more than $36,000 has been raised from the U2 Eucharist services for the global Millennium Development Goals.“People are learning there is something they can do to change the world,” she said. “And they leave feeling that they really can.”At St. Andrew's in Encinitas, Hills said there may be more U2 Eucharist services. “Lord knows Bono has plenty of songs,” he added.© Copyright 2006 Union-Tribune Publishing Co. • A Copley Newspaper Site

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Is Bono a Christian or how to dismantle a Idolized Bono.

I happen to like some of U2's material. I dont think they have made a decent record in many years but thats my opinion. I do like Bonos voice as well and the musicians are quite good.
But is Bono a christian.
Ive never thought so. I guess only God knows for sure.
here is a article a friend sent me that really opened my eyes. This is from Relevent magazine.

I’m pretty sure I won’t get much opposition if I say that U2 is the greatest rock band of all time. When I scored two great seats to one of the shows at Madison Square Garden last month, I thought my life had reached its pinnacle. It was a euphoric experience. During the first few songs, I stood, along with the rest of the stadium, as we pumped our fists into the air and sang along with every word. The energy in the air was emotionally overwhelming. And if you’ve never been to a U2 show, let me tell you that it was everything you’d ever expect it to be. But it was also much, much more.
About five songs into their set, Bono stopped the show and strapped on a headband with writing on it. I stared up at the JumboTron to see that the handwritten lettering said: COEXIST. Coexisting sounds like a great idea. I fully support the peaceful philanthropy that Bono has encouraged, and this seemed like another way that he was trying to spread the message. Except, it started to feel like more than a political message. The “C” in “coexist” was the Islamic crescent moon, the “X” was the Star of David, and the “T” was the cross of Christ. Bono pointed at the symbols on his headband—first to the cross, then to the star, then to the crescent moon—and he began to repeat: “Jesus, Jew, Mohammed—all true. Jesus, Jew, Mohammed—all true.”He repeated the words like a mantra, and some people even began to repeat it with him. I suddenly wanted to crawl out of my skin. Was Bono, my supposed brother in Christ, preaching some kind of universalism? In just a few seconds, I went from agreeing with him about Christ-like “coexistence” to being creeped out by the ungodly, untrue thing he was saying. What’s going on here? What if he believes that all ways are the same, and he just thinks of Christianity as his particular way? Aren’t universalism and true Christianity mutually exclusive? I’ve heard the urban legends of amazing things Bono has said about his faith, I’ve read the books, and I’ve peered deep into everything he’s said hoping to find something that makes his beliefs clear. For years, I’ve adored him and clung to the notion that he is believer, too. After all, he identifies himself with Christianity, doesn’t he? When he stated that lie so boldly, it devastated me. It was, without question, the most disturbing experience of my life; I felt like I’d been covered in bile. As I looked around, I saw all the people standing and chanting with him—it was disgusting and beautiful all at once. Unity can be so enticing. It made me think of the one world religion and how that will probably look benign and beautiful from the outside, too. I even started to wonder if universalism just might be poised to be that religion. All these things were running through my head. After the show, I ran into a friend who had been sitting in the back row of farthest. “What did you think of that headband thing?” I asked. “Well, I couldn’t hear what he was saying because it was bouncing off the wall behind me, and I couldn’t read the headband, because I wasn’t near a JumboTron. But honestly, I felt like I was witnessing an antichrist.” I stood frozen as she spoke. I’d had the same feeling. Let me be clear: I’m not saying that Bono is the Antichrist. Perhaps he’s just guilty of being overzealous about his politics. But I hope that if he is a believer, the Holy Spirit will convict him that equating Christianity with other religions is false prophecy. II Timothy 3 tells us to avoid people who have a form of godliness but deny the true power of God. And I believe that the most deceptive thing of all is to identify yourself with the truth and preach a lie. For a long time after the show, I couldn’t talk about it. And I still don’t know what to think because I don’t know Bono’s heart. All I know is what he said from that stage and how it shook my footing. God used that to show me something ugly in myself that needed to be fixed. It felt like He was saying, “If you’re looking to Bono, you’re looking to the wrong place.” The reality is that Bono held too high a place in my heart. And I don’t think I’m alone there. I’ve wrongly held him up as the heroic ideal—the cool representative for Christianity; he may have been my “Christian idol,” but he was my idol nonetheless. And that’s not okay. Yes, it should bother me to think that Bono might not be a believer; but it should not bother me any more than if a random guy on the street does not believe. I pray for Bono more lately, and I pray for the hearts of the millions of people that he impacts on a daily basis. He is, without question, the most influential person in the world, and he has an unparalleled opportunity to speak the truth to the lost world. This year alone, he was nominated to be the president of the World Bank, and he was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize. And by the time the Vertigo Tour ends in April, it will have grossed twice as much as any political campaign anywhere, ever. If Bono has a saving faith in the one true God, I can only hope that he would speak the Truth without ambiguity. I pray that the name of Jesus would grace his lips, without being equated with Judaism or Islam or any other religion. And I’m praying that God will help me to put things in the right place in my heart.

Is Bono a Christian?
You decide.

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