The No Goofy Zone Discernment Ministry

The No Goofy Zone is a discernment ministry for saved born again Christians and all who are seeking the truth.We expose non-biblical trends in the church. We are making material available to advance understanding of issue's which endanger Christianity. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit.

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Location: Piqua, Ohio, United States

Former drummer for Gary Lewis and The Playboys and The Coasters. Tim has also played with Paul Baloche, Lincoln Brewster, Darlene Zscech and Hillsongs, Jeff Fenholt, SteveCamp among others. Tim founded The Simply Agape Project in 2001 to get free Christian music to the troops. Recordings have been made with Tim, and friends Alex Acuna, Abe Laboriel SR, Justo Almario,Steve Camp , Jared Ming and some wonderful Independant Christian artists.The Somebody Brave CD also features words of encouragment to the soldiers from Pastors, Moms, Dads, and Lt Col Brian Birdwell a Pentegon 9/11 survivor Tim is married to Donna Wirth and has four children Alan 25,Steven 23, Brittany 22, Bethany 21. Tim has played in numerous churchs as well as shows on TBN. Tim has also performed on JCTV on the show Generation Worship featuring worship leader Jared Ming. Tim has a book published worldwide titled "Pass The Plate And Let Us Prey" (My Search For Black and White Christianity in a Gray Nation)

Saturday, September 08, 2012

Why People Hate Those Who Expose False Teaching

Many of you know that Im a member of a group called Concerned Nazarenes. Now I am not an official Nazarene but used to attend a Nazarene church because I admire and believe the belief and focus on holiness. The Nazarene denomination as a whole though is fleeing from everything thats holy in my opinion. There was a Facebook letter launched against our group and I feel a need to address it. Some others of our group have tried to respond with a defense but of course their comments were immediately taken off. The scriptural and actual truth is always going to be deleted when a good solid defense is made so I decided to address this in this article. I do acknowledge a persons right to delete anything on ones personal page.  I will allow comments on this post Here was the guys rant.....

An Open Letter to Members of Concerned Nazarenes:

If you are part of that "group", you may want to stop reading now and unfriend me. It will save you some anguish. But someone needs to speak truth to you. Since you BLOCK your FB page and only allow those that support your cause to post there, and since I can't message you, I'm forced to break my own rule and use my page to express my thoughts without first engaging you privately (though I'm sure it would be of little use).

I have followed your comments, rants, ravings, posts, and visual media since you debuted your DVD around our General Assembly in 2009. I have read what you write on blogs, posts, comments, Twitter, Facebook, NazNet, and NCNNews among other outlets. I believe I have formed an accurate and honest perspective on your cause. 

You aren't Concerned, you're angry. You aren't Nazarene, you're judgmental. 

In short - you are THUGS.

I watched today as you "whole-earth scorched" some friends of mine and fellow Nazarene pastors, Gabriel & Jeanette Vargas Salguero, on the NCNNews Message Board. You have attacked good and Godly women and men in the Church of the Nazarene, such as Dan Boone, Thomas Jay Oord, Doug Hardy, Mark Maddix, Kevin Ulmet, Loren Gresham, Jon Middendorf, Jesse C Middendorf, Karl Giberson, Dan Bohi, Diane Cunningham Leclerc, among others. In doing so, you don't enter into constructive dialogue, you choose personal and vile attacks. It's un-Godly behavior; it's un-Biblical; and it's time someone stood up and told you so. That's where I come in.

Feel free to google me (you won't find much), listen to my conversations (all on-line and in iTunes), read my FB page (it's public), follow me on Twitter (again, public), and in general add me to your list of those that deserve your bitter hyperbole. I'll gladly take it if it means I'm in the likes of those YOU currently call "enemies of the church". These General & District Superintendents, faculty and college presidents, chaplains and officers in our military, student leaders on our Nazarene campuses, and pastors and parsonage families, have done nothing TO YOU, yet you feel the need to RISE up against them. Shame on you. Shame on your cause.

If you've read this far, I'm sure you want to UNFRIEND me. No problem. In fact, if you are friends with me AND part of the FB Concerned Nazarene group, I'll likely UNFRIEND you. It's not that I don't value my FB friends who have differing opinions than me, or that I don't learn from them (just read my recent political posts) - but they truly are interested in TRUTH. You are interested in getting your own way. I don't need you in my life.

I'll pray for you. I'll fast for you. I'll care what you do with your life, and how God will respond to you on judgment day (though if I were you I wouldn't hold out hope for mercy). But I won't waste time trying to understand you. We are at opposite ends of the humanity spectrum.

I wish you the best in life...HONESTLY, I do!

Grace & Peace -- Bruce Barnard, a HOPEFUL NAZARENE!

PS - this is a NOTE, not a's sharable if you so choose...

Here is my response on why we do what we do according to scripture admonition... (Grace and Peace lol why is that guys like this and guys like Dennis Bratcher use catch phrases like this and do not offer grace or peace?) Here is also a comment left by a pastor? "Thank you for what you wrote and standing up to what Dan Boone described as Nazarene Taliban." Funny how liberal's and those who disagree with us chant Grace and Peace and tolerance. But yet again they do not  practice what they preach what hypocrites.
Dan Boone comparing us to the Taliban very nice Dan your true colors and Christlike attitude really shine through that comment.
 The typical slam with no scriptural context where we are wrong and zero specifics. And than of course it ends with wishing us well. The big fear and Im not raising any praise to us God gets the glory here is that false teachers profess
ing false gospels like Dan Bohi have been exposed and our DVD did a lot to fill people in on the scriptural truth on the false teaching the leaders mentioned were bringing in. They like to play that down but if we were not making a difference (and you can view that as positive or negative) they would remain silent about us. Anyone who exposes false teaching is always portrayed as a villain. They did it with Paul and the apsotles who exposed false teachers and they do it now. Again zero scripture used or mentioned. Par for the course. Of course they call us un Christlike sound doctrine always divides."Matthew 10:34. "Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.
35 "For I have come to 'set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law';
36 "and 'a man's enemies will be those of his own household.'" We have seen this happen the scripture also mentions 2 Tim 4:3 states"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;" Most of the leaders mentioned fall under this. There were some I dont know and have not seen articles on. The guy comes off as very self righteous sounds like the guy (but not the same Naz Netguy)who came in to protect Jon Middendorf at GA with crazy accusations like we were showing up to hurt Jon physically which was crazy talk and someone just making up lies. What we do is done within the confines and admonition of scripture. This guy in his rant proves himself he cannot rightly divide the Word of God.

Where the guy gets it wrong in his entire tirade is that we are not attacking these people personally. Manny how many times in both our articles do we labor to say are not attacking the people but the false teaching they are promoting. One 
of Dan Bohi's own fans referred to him in an article like this and I quote" "I stated this earlier but Dan is an odd man. He resembles an unmade bed and he is a towering man. I am 6’4” and #$#Q pounds and Dan makes me feel like Twiggy! (Yes, I am dating myself!!). I do not believe he has any formal training in theology or Biblical studies yet, people respond to his message? "end quote.

 Can you imagine me saying this about Dan commenting on how he looks and his size? Man the tar and feathers would come out. But yet these disparaging remarks come from one of Dans fans so I guess its ok since he is a friend. I believe guys like Jon Middendorf Dan Bohi and others mentioned seem like decent guys. I think Dan's family pictures and those with his wife look very nice they are a really handsome couple together. So Dan's a big guy, so what. Im concerned with the false gospel and false teaching Dan is promoting not how Dan looks. Jon Middendorf seems to be a really great guy. We even invited him to be on the Concerned Nazarenes DVD. We were willing to foot the bill for Jon and his entire family expenses free to come to Coeur De Alene and be a part of the DVD and put his side of the story on the dvd. We would have did this unedited. But of course you don't hear the truth about our story just a lot of rhetoric and making us into creeps and meanies. Im tempted to post a defense on the guys page but I know they are reading this one so I wont bother. Hearing Naz NetterDave Petigrew rant is laughable as well. 

2 Peter 2:1-3 is at the heart of why we do what we do"1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. 2 And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; 3 and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep."

Peter writes in the second and third chapters of his epistle about the unseen danger of false teachers who arise within the church. Such teachers are often unrecognized, especially in their earliest forms, partly because they profess to sha
re a “like precious faith.” Yet, they secretly introduce false teaching, teachings which are destructive to themselves and to all who follow them Second, Peter teaches us to expect false teachers to arise. Although the need for prophets has ceased, the need for teachers of the Scriptures continues. Among those who teach, we should expect some to be false teachers. They hold a Bible in their hands and tell us they are teaching the Scriptures, but their teaching is false. Their interpretation has not come from the Holy Spirit but from their own will (see 1:20-21). False teachers are no mere possibility; they are likely, and we must be watchful so we are not led astray by them. Our knowledge of Old Testament history should prepare us to be on guard against false teachers, for they will surely arise.

Third, Peter teaches us to expect false teachers to arise from within the church as well as from without. In Old Testament times, false prophets arose “among the people” (verse 1). So also in our time, false teachers will arise “among us” (literally “among you,” verse 1). It is easy to identify false teachers in other religions or in liberal or apostate churches. It is relatively easy to expect false teachers to arise from without. But Peter tells us they will also arise from within the community of believers, from within our own church. This same warning comes from Paul in the Book of Acts where he admonishes the elders of the Ephesian church:

28 “Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. 31 Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears. 32 And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build [you] up and to give [you] the inheritance among all those who are sanctified” (Acts 20:28-32, emphasis mine).

 The teaching of these false teachers is destructive to the teachers and to all who follow their teaching and practice. Peter calls the teaching of the false teachers “destructive heresies,” which will “bring swift destruction upon themselves” (verse 1). Their judgment is not “idle” nor is it “asleep” (verse 3).

 False teachers bring reproach upon true saints and the church of our Lord Jesus Christ. Because of these impostors, “the way of truth will be maligned,” Peter says. We suffer from the presence of false teachers. “How?” you might ask. We suffer because these false teachers seek to gain status and recognition by identifying themselves as true saints and associating with true believers. In 1 Peter, we were instructed that unbelievers can be expected to react against the righteousness of the saints because they are threatened by it (1 Peter 4:1-4). We are to expect to be maligned for doing what is right (1 Peter 2:12, 15, 20). When the sin of false teachers is exposed, the unrighteous may almost delight in lumping all professing Christians together so that we are wrongly associated with the folly of fraudulent saints.

David Koresh is but one example of how this can happen. Koresh was not orthodox. One could hardly call him Christian (whether he or his followers did or not). While the evangelical community looked upon Koresh and his followers as a cult, the secular press has not been so discerning. Those who like to use the excuse, “The church is full of hypocrites,” see little difference between Koresh and his followers and mainstream evangelicalism. They leap at the opportunity to find a reason to ridicule us and reject our faith.

Sixth, these false teachers are not always readily apparent. False teachers certainly do not represent themselves as those who make a false profession of faith. They rise up as those who are one with us in Christ. As Jesus warned, they come as “wolves in sheep’s clothing” (Matthew 7:15). They carry out their ministry in Jesus’ name, and they are just as surprised at being called unbelievers as we are when we realize they do not share a “like precious faith” with us:

15 “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn [bushes,] nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit; but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So then, you will know them by their fruits. 21 Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS’“ (Matthew 7:15-23).

Our Lord’s words here indicate that we dare not attempt to distinguish false teachers from the true merely on the basis of their ability to perform mighty works. A true prophet need not perform great works. Such was John the Baptist, a prophet without mighty works but with mighty words (John 10:41). If a prophet declares that something will happen, and it does not, then he is a false prophet (see Deuteronomy 18:20-22). But the ability to perform great works does not prove one to be a prophet. His doctrine must also conform to the Word of God (Deuteronomy 13:1-5). Jesus teaches that the “fruit” which distinguishes false teachers from the true is not just their mighty deeds. We must also take careful note of the fruit of their own character and that of their followers.

When false teachers “arise,” their heresies are “secretly introduced” (verse 1). They “creep in unnoticed” (Jude 4). These false teachers are devious and deceptive, not wishing to be known for what they are. In some cases, they do not even 
recognize their own condition. They not only deceive, they are themselves deceived (2 Timothy 3:13; see 2 Peter 2:13). They rely on slick methods rather than on the Spirit of God and appeal to the lusts of the flesh (compare 1 Corinthians 2; 2 Corinthians 2:17; 4:1-2).
false teachers can be recognized by their message. False teachers deny the truth and deal in error. The “way of truth” is maligned, and their words are false (verses 2 and 3). Their doctrines are heresies which are “destructive,” while the truth leads to “life and godliness” (1:3). They claim to teach the Word of God, but they actually twist and distort the Scriptures so their interpretations justify their lifestyle and their lusts (see 3:16).
Both Peter and Jude inform us as to how far these false teachers will go:
1 … even denying the Master who bought them (2 Peter 2:1).
4 … ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ (Jude 4).
Jude says they pervert grace, twisting it so that it becomes a pretext for sin. Peter might say that rather than seeing grace as an escape from our former lusts (1 Peter 1:14; 2:11; 2 Peter 1:4), it is an excuse for our former lusts.
The ultimate and most abominable error is that these teachers go as far as to “deny the Master who bought them.” I believe Peter’s words have their origin in the language of the Old Testament in reference to the exodus of the Israelites from Egypt. Jude also ties the “purchase” of these false teachers to the redemption of Israel from slavery in Egypt:

So thats why we do what we do. Many others like Eric Barger, Marsha West, Matt Slick and many others are doing the same thing. God is separating sheep from goats. Where do you want to be standing when our Lord comes back?

After Manny Silva commented on this guys FB page here was his response.

"Thank for your comments - it wasn't written to solicit anything or ask you to join...2nd, this isn't a debate's a note, from me, and expresses MY thoughts/reflections...3rd, since it's not a debate post, I've been deleting posts that are meant to debate the "good" of the CN group...if you want to dialogue with me in private message, my FB page is open...feel free to send those notes along." end quote

The responses about the good of the CN group was not meant as debate but just a chance to shed some light on the good our group does. Of course this guy would rather here the praises of some of the false teachers we expose rather than the truth or (shudder) anything this group has done that is good. Of course this guy and many of those responding on his page thinks that exposing heresy and false teaching is wrong and bad. Scripture-God's Word teaches us otherwise.

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Thursday, September 06, 2012

The Un Official Court Jester of Naz Net

(Naz Net is a forum for the Nazarene Church-in my opinion it is a breeding ground and a defense for heresy within not just the Nazarene Church but the Christian faith and the Body of Christ).

Bob Hunter "Bob wroteon April 18, 2009 at 8:41am
I guess that means I traded the car in. I was feeling like it was broke down and I couldn't be a part of fixing it. To take the analogy further, I know that some are equipped to fix it and should stay behind the wheel...or under the hood. I wanted to stress that not everyone should trade the old beater in like I did, the COTN needs people who can do repair and restore work. I just didn't feel like I was to be one of them.  " End quote

Yesterday I was sent a link to Naz Net and I just have to comment on it. The comment was made by the official court jester of Naz Net Bob Hunter. When we released the Concerned Nazarene DVD Bob had a lot to say about it. His videos (which have now since been pulled from U Tube) were so poorly done with no real argument presented against the dvd. Just kinda stuff like he says so. Little to no scripture was presented as an argument against the dvd.I actually used Bobs videos side by side with ours not only because of the poor quality but because of the poor quantity. Bob was actually one of the poster boys on why we did the DVD in the first place. What is even more compelling is at last glance Bob does not even attend a Nazarene church something he constantly used against some of us who attended then left. Also Bob was once a Nazarene pastor at Springwater Church of the Nazarene he no longer pastors but at last look attends a Fourquare Church. Anyway this is what that fun a minute guy had to say on Naz Net my comments will follow "Yes, the Concerned Nazarenes are trying to Jesus juke the entire denomination. What is Jesus juking? The Urban Dictionary defines it this way: When some Christian brings Jesus or the Bible into an argument or conversation from out of no where. Usually creating another religious argument within the original argument or conversation. 

The Concerned Nazarenes have endless demands and arguments. They are not interested in reform at all, they just want to argue over issues that have already been resolved and historically established in our tradition (e.g. The Bible and innerrancy). This is is why I call it denominational Jesus juking. They are trying to juke us into to focusing on something other than our mission which is to make Christ-like disciples. 

As members of the Church of the Nazarene we should stand together against Jesus Juking. We should not allow our beloved denomination to be juked into adopting reformed positions that have no historical precedent. We should not acquiesce to the demands of irresponsible bloggers that attack our leaders and call for denominational boycotts. Rogue groups (full of Jesus Juke-iness) that are intent on revising our history, mission and theology will be met with a firm, but loving response. 

As ONE family of worldwide Nazarenes, we should stand steadfastly against denominational Jesus Juking. We are FOR making Christ-like disciples. We support the elected leaders in the Church of the Nazarene and we love our Universities. 

If the Concerned Nazarenes can't go along with that, then show them the door. " end of quote My comments: Im not here to defend the DVD because it made such a dent people cant help but talk about it. Naz Net actually helped bring attention to the DVD which which result in us having to order another 10 thousand DVDs which we now have completely ran out of. The Concerned Nazarenes as a group have helped reform and educate people to the heresy that has enveloped the Nazarene denomination. Bobs comments seem to come from someone who really does not understand Nazarene history. You have folks like Dan Bohi who are bringing in false teaching rejected personally by Phineas Breeze in his comments on Azuza street. Bob at last look attends a church that embraces Azuza streets movement. Bob and his wife were removed from this fellowship because they were so carnal and actually dirty comments (in my evaluation). Bob and other often degrade those who are fundamental in their Christian beliefs. All being fundamental means is that we believe in the fundamental's of the Christian faith. The core beliefs that make Christianity what it is. In other words sound doctrine which many at Naz Net do not have a grasp on. Doctrine is THE MOST important thing!

Doctrine is simply what you believe.

"What comes into our minds when we think about God is the most important thing about us." - A.W. Tozer, The Knowledge of the Holy, 7.

If what you believe differs from what the Word of God says, you are in error in your doctrine. There is no person alive today who does not hold to doctrines. They may pretend to be free of doctrine and just "feeling" their way around the world, but they hold to doctrines just as tightly as you and I do. They just don't realized how much they have been deceived by the enemy, by others, and by allowing themselves to be deceived.


1. The Trinity: God is one "What" and three "Whos" with each "Who" possessing all the attributes of Deity and personality.

2. The Person of Jesus Christ: Jesus is 100% God and 100% man for all eternity.

3. The Second Coming: Jesus Christ is coming bodily to earth to rule and judge.

4. Salvation: It is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

5. The Scripture: It is entirely inerrant and sufficient for all Christian life.

The major religions of the world all deny all of these major doctrines. The cults deny one or more, usually more than one and especially the dual nature of Christ. The wolves who pretend to be Christians today involved in the Third Wave, New Wave, New Age counterfeit revival pretend to believe these doctrines but don't let them fool you. By what they teach they also deny one or more of these doctrines, and in fact I have more than one article that proves that many of them deny them ALL by what they teach. These are the most slick and dangerous pretenders of all.

But we also understand about the endtimes and doctrine 2 Timothy 4:3-4 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
To further expand on those who believe in the fundamentals of the faith. The term "fundamentalism" was first coined in 1920 by a Baptist periodical, the Watchman-Examiner, and has its origins in a series of twelve booklets entitled "The Fundamentals: A Testimony to Truth," underwritten by oil magnates Milton and Lyman Stewart and authored by a variety of 64 Evangelical preachers and scholars. Three million copies were circulated free of charge to U.S. clergymen between 1910-1915, the preface of which reads: "In 1909 God moved two Christian laymen to set aside a large sum of money for issuing twelve volumes that would set forth the fundamentals of the Christian faith, and which were to be sent free of charge to ministers of the gospel, missionaries, Sunday school superintendents, and others engaged in aggressive Christian work throughout the English speaking world." The basic movement was in response to the onset of liberal theology and intended as a revival in the fundamentals of scriptual truth. Adherents to "The Fundamentals" became known as Fundamentalists -- those who interpret biblical scripture literally and strive to live without compromise to its doctrines. Core fundamentalist tenets include:
The original manuscripts which comprise the Bible were divinely inspired down to each word.
The Bible is infallible.
The Bible is decisive in all issues of controversy that it directly addresses. Of the issues which it seems to remain silent on, man should not speculate.
The only things which are certain about God are what may be found in the Bible.
God exists in three persons -- the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Jesus was God incarnate.
Jesus was born of a virgin.
Christ died on the cross as a substitutionary death for the sins of all mankind.
Christ rose bodily from the dead and ascended to heaven.
Christ will return again to Earth to reign for a thousand years.
Eternal salvation comes when the individual asks God for forgiveness and invites Jesus into their heart.
Scriptual living should not be compromised by worldly influences.
Salvation is by faith alone, and not of good In other words sound doctrine is what many at Naz Net do not have a grasp on. 10 minutes at Naz Net and you can see this in action. They are not alone at fault here. As the scriptures state in the endtimes many fall away from sound doctrine. We can see that because of the huge infiltration of false teaching in the church. As for guys like Bob Hunter who are tossed around by the waves of culture and false doctrine.listen to what he has to say at your own peril. Jesus juking? At his desire for attention Bob desires to sound clever but comes out once again as the unoffical court jester of Naz Net (update-Bob emailed and let us know he now attends a Nazarene church again)

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