The No Goofy Zone Discernment Ministry

The No Goofy Zone is a discernment ministry for saved born again Christians and all who are seeking the truth.We expose non-biblical trends in the church. We are making material available to advance understanding of issue's which endanger Christianity. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit.

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Location: Piqua, Ohio, United States

Former drummer for Gary Lewis and The Playboys and The Coasters. Tim has also played with Paul Baloche, Lincoln Brewster, Darlene Zscech and Hillsongs, Jeff Fenholt, SteveCamp among others. Tim founded The Simply Agape Project in 2001 to get free Christian music to the troops. Recordings have been made with Tim, and friends Alex Acuna, Abe Laboriel SR, Justo Almario,Steve Camp , Jared Ming and some wonderful Independant Christian artists.The Somebody Brave CD also features words of encouragment to the soldiers from Pastors, Moms, Dads, and Lt Col Brian Birdwell a Pentegon 9/11 survivor Tim is married to Donna Wirth and has four children Alan 25,Steven 23, Brittany 22, Bethany 21. Tim has played in numerous churchs as well as shows on TBN. Tim has also performed on JCTV on the show Generation Worship featuring worship leader Jared Ming. Tim has a book published worldwide titled "Pass The Plate And Let Us Prey" (My Search For Black and White Christianity in a Gray Nation)

Tuesday, September 27, 2005

Becoming A Purpose Driven Resistor- Learning To Just Say No!!

Why even be a Purpose Driven Resistor?
Isn't Rick Warren doing some great things for God?
Why fight the Purpose Driven Life? Look how many books the guy has sold. Shouldn't we just leave this alone and if its not of God it will go away (The Gamaliel excuse Acts 5:35-39 which is what many Christians quote if they don't have the guts to act or speak against something that is not of the Lord Jesus-what about Buddhism and Hinduism-is that of God since its still around?-ask anyone who quotes that verse that question).

The first and best way to fight this movement is to pray. Pray that God will send a new hunger for His word among Christians. The best way to fight Rick Warrens man made movement is to get people to read the Bible and ask the Holy Spirit to lead them into all truth. If people compare Ricks teaching to scriptural teaching many will see that Emperor Rick is naked.

Problem 1 Rick Warren does not rightly divide the word of God. Ricks uses of multiple translations was my first red flag on purpose driven anything. I knew at that point that Rick picked and choosed scripture to make his point.

Problem 2 Rick Warren constantly contradicts himself-Ive posted on this so scroll down and read the other articles. Here are a couple gems I found that may be of interest to you concerning this subject. The first one is from the man who profoundly influenced Rick namely Rober Schuller
The following quote is from a two hour interview with Michael Horton on The White Horse Inn radio program, Nov. 1992 (re-aired Aug. 10, 1997).

HORTON: Of course we would say that that the dual nature of Christ is a mystery but not a contradiction.SCHULLER: It is a contradiction, but you know what? Contradictions are ultimate points of creativity... end quote

Just something to think about. And when I did a search on the definition of contradiction I came up with this other gem from the Hegel glossary.
Contradiction". . . the dialectic asserts that, when A is any category, except the Absolute Idea, whatever is A may be, and indeed must be, not-A also. . . . The dialectic does not reject [the] law [of contradiction]. An unresolved contradiction is, for Hegel as for every one else, a sign of error. The relation of thesis and antithesis derives its whole meaning from the synthesis, which follows them . . . . In fact, so far is the dialectic from denying the law of contradiction, that it is especially based on it. The contradictions are the cause of the dialectic process. But they can only be this if they are received as marks of error. . . . Truth consists, not of contradictions, but of moments which, if separated, would be contradictions, but which in their synthesis are reconciled and consistent." J.M.E. McTaggart, Studies in the Hegelian Dialectic § 8.
To learn more about the Hagelian Dialectic Paul Proctor and Berit have some great articles.

Ricks message is self centered-PDL starts out with "Its not about you" and then centers the rest of the book on you. The Bible does not teach us to be lovers of self. Ricks whole movement is self centered and focused on man instead of God.

What do you think church should be like?

What kind of music do you like?

Ricks materials will make you think more about your self and your needs instead of God and worshipping God in spirit and in truth..
Its a very selfish movement.

Look at some of the fruit of the Purpose Driven movement
Amber Frey
This is a quote from my local newspaper the Modesto Bee
When first flipping on "Amber Frey: Witness for the Prosecution," you might think you've stumbled across an infomercial for the bestselling book "The Purpose Driven Life."
A quote from the spiritual self-help tome opens the CBS TV movie about Scott Peterson's ex-girlfriend and references to it are peppered throughout the two-hour drama.
Amber is now doing speaking engagements.

Ashley Smith
Smith's book will be released next week and will disclose that during the ordeal she gave him more than purpose. She also gave him methamphetamines. He initially asked her for marijuana, but since she was out of that drug, she supplied him with another.
Smith later told reporters how she had read Nicholas chapters from The Purpose Driven Life and she became an instant Christian celebrity. She quickly cashed in with a book and movie deal. She is also on the speaking circuit.
And of course there is the fruit of Richard Abanes unofficial spokesman for Rick Warren.

When you have a man made movement this is the fruit it will produce.
The most important reason to regect Rick Warren and his materials is because Rick denies Jesus Christ by not mentioning Jesus in articles and not telling the true gospel in articles like the Ladies Home Journal article. On the basis of this article alone we need to treat Rick like a unbeliever.

So what do you do when purpose driven comes to your church.
1.Educate people on how PDL and Rick Warrens teaching conflict with Gods word.
2. Don't sign anything. Ive made it a practice not to sign anything in church-no membership agreements, not anything. We are already memebers of the Body of Christ if you are saved. No signature only belief in the saving gospel of Jesus Christ.
Rick and his gang has all kind of things for you to sign. Let your yes be yes and no mean no.
good link to articles

3.I think its really awful what Rick Warren will be doing in Rwanda do you think the people of Rwanda will have a choice to accept or reject Ricks man centered teaching? If you think they will have a choice once PDL is in place your wrong.
4. Do you want your church to end up like this-no matter how many people show up for services.

If you think thats ok-well pass the cool aid I guess.

Rick Warren is apostate and I believe Ricks movement is a part of the great falling away spoke of in 2Thess 2:3
Rick is not a pastor or a teacher no matter what he has on his name tag. Rick is a business man and a very, very good one at that. Rick Warren networks, uses group think, cell groups the whole ball of wax better than anyone that has come along except for maybe his false teacher buddy Paul Yonggi Cho. But Rick is part of a much bigger scheme I think. He is just one of many players to form the apostate church of the end times.

Rick Warren needs to step down as pastor of Saddleback church and confess that he was wrong and his reformation was made from his own flesh, and encourage people to burn the materials he has put out.
Rick then needs to ask Jesus Christ to be His Lord and Savior.
Rick then needs to take some time away to seek Gods will for his life.

I would encourage you to continue to pray Gods will in all this.
Be smart.
Most of all get people to read the Bible for themselves. Turn people not toward PDL but toward the word of God.
Rick Warren and his five examples for a healthy church no where does it encourage reading the Bible for yourselves (apart from PD study materials)
Maybe its time to put all the devotionals back on the shelf.
Then devote yourself to the reading of Gods word.

Is the church really growing because of Willow Creek, Saddleback etc..?
Nope attendance in the states is down we are just playing musical church chairs.

But there will always be a remenent.

Good website to go to if you are threatned by the Purpose Driven Phantom Menance

Monday, September 26, 2005

Some interesting Door magazine articles

Here's some yuk yuks from my pals at The Door Magazine

The Best of Praise and Worship 2005

And T.D. Jakes Launches Colon Ministry

Im really taking the gloves off in my next article. No more mister nice guy!

Becoming A Purpose Driven Resistor- Learning To Just Say No!!

The Purpose Driven Trojan Horse-Taking The Trojan Horse To The World-Rick Warrens Global Ambitions

Do you understand what is being said here? Remarkably, ESA is saying that "unjust social structures" and in particular "the maldistribution of wealth" are the real causes of evil in the world. According to ESA it is these things (e.g., unjust social structures/maldistribution of wealth) which cause "crime, abortion, lack of prayer, secular humanism, etc.." Just on a factual level this is foolish. There is crime at all levels of society irrespective of wealth; abortion is supported most strongly by the wealthy. And does the ESA really believe that changing economic structures would solve the problem of "lack of prayer"? Here the gospel has been reduced to a program for transforming social structures. This is the Marxist line. It does not mean that those who take this position are Communists. but it does mean they have a complete confusion of the kingdom of God with the basic socialistic concepts.
The socialist mentality as promoted by Evangelicals for Social Action and others, and endorsed by much of the evangelical world, is based on double error. First and foremost it is wrong theologically, fundamentally distorting the meaning of the gospel. But it is equally wrong in its naive assessment of the redistribution of wealth and its consequences."
From the chapter- Forms of The World Spirit- in the book"The Great Evangelical Disaster" by Francis A Schaffer.

Keep that quote in mind. Perhaps Francis was alerting us to something that was coming.
So whats Rick Warren have to do with all this. I don't think Slick Rick is going global just so he gets a chance to perhaps play with Bono and U2 if The Edge calls in sick.
Here's is what Warrens has to say-
Warren labeled the five giants:
Spiritual emptiness. "[People] don't know God made them for a purpose."
Egocentric leadership. "The world is full of little Saddams. Most people cannot handle power. It goes to their heads."
Poverty. "Half the world lives on less than $2 per day."
Disease. "We have billions of people dying from preventable disease. That's unconscionable."
Illiteracy. "Half the world is functionally illiterate."
Next, Warren, an incurable lover of slogans and acrostics, wrote out an acrostic, peace, to match up against each of the five global giants:
Plant new churches, or partner with existing ones.
Equip leaders.
Assist the poor.
Care for the sick.
Educate the next generation.

Sounds good doesnt it? But look further. When Rick says plant churches or partner with existing ones what does that mean. It means they become purpose driven-which is flawed and weak Christianity if you can even truely call Ricks methods Christian. What would that mean to churches that are already in Rwanda and Africa who don't want to get onboard the purpose driven cho-cho? Can Ricks business partner make them become purpose driven? Here is one of the fears stated in a article in Christianity Today

"Back in Rwanda, Christians were sorting out their feelings and discovered their enthusiasm was mixed with worry. One well-educated Rwandan leader told me, "One reality that we have to face here is when a leader speaks, we follow even if we are not convinced."
We already know how Slick Ricks gang likes to deal with Purpose Driven Resistors in the states. What could this mean for Christians in Rwanda and Africa where Rick makes business buddies?

And where does it state that Rick Warren wants to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ? (which is already being done by wonderful missionaries in Africa).
Its a great thing to feed the poor and clothe the naked and our Lord Jesus tells us to do this. But if we don't get the gospel of Jesus Christ to this poor lost souls even though we may feed their bellies for a time they will spend a eternity in hell. Does Rick even want to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ in Africa.
We already know Rick doesn't do that here in the much safer haven of the United States. Again look at the Ladies Home Journel article titled "Learning to Love Yourself" Rick had a opportunity here and he folded and denied Christ.
Will he do it in Africa where there is considerable pressure.
Here is a quote of what Rick wants to do once he gets to a village.
"Individuals would be sent out in teams, and on entering a village, they would seek "a man of peace."
"Find the man of peace. Bless him. He blesses you back. Who is the man of peace? He's influential and he's open. He doesn't have to be a Christian. Find a non-Christian who's influential and open—a Muslim or an atheist."
What a Muslim or a atheist?
Rick is asking you to disobey the Bible which states
2 Corinthians 6:14-18
"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? And what communion hath light with darkness? 15And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. " (KJV)

Our duty as Christian is first andforemostt to share the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Paul often took a collection for the poor to help feed and clothe them.
But it was for poor believers.
Am I suggesting we never feed the poor or clothe the naked?
Of course not. But the most important thing we can do for unbeliever's is to share the gospel of Jesus Christ with them. Where someone lives eternally is much more important than feeding and providing clothes for them.
Lets lead the to salvation through Jesus Christ something that will never go away. Eternal Life with Jesus Christ.

Rick has already struck up a business deal with Rwanda's President who Rick introduced as "
Warren then introduced President Paul Kagame as a "wonderful Christian leader" who has demonstrated his trustworthiness in rebuilding the country."
I have not been able to find that Paul Kagame is a Christian-he may be. I couldnt find it anywhere on Pauls website as well.
Again it will be interesting to see how Purpose Driven Resistors are dealt with in Rwanda and Africa if they choose to not get onboard with Slick Rick. We already know that Rick takes no responsibility for what happens within his man made purpose driven movement.
From Richard Abanes book "Rick Warren and the Purpose that Drives Him"
Page 32-33 Richard Abanes: That brings up "church splits." There have been complaints about "everybody" over 65 years old in a church being "kicked out" because of Rick Warren. Or things like "Everbody who did'nt go along with the 'Rick Warren' program was ousted from the church," What do you say to that?
Rick Warren: A lot of people take a good message and pervert it. Thats been done with every message in the last 2000 years. Anybody can be misquoted; anybody can be mislead. There are a lot of things done in the name of" purpose driven" that I would publicly disavow. I feel no compulsion to defend every stupid mistake that every pastor has made in the name of "purpose -driven." end quote
To the best of my knowledge Rick Warren has never disavowed anything done by one of his churches or people promoting his material-That would be bad for business don't ya think.
But much of Slick Ricks own material promoted on his website and Dan Southerlands book "Transistioning" encourages you to get rid of those who do not "buy in" to your purpose driven vision.
In Africa they don't have laws like we do here. It could be awful for purpose driven resistors there.
In conclusion some parting words from the head of Slick Rick Warren
""Personal computers have brand names. But inside every pc is an Intel chip and an operating system, Windows," Warren says. "The Purpose Driven paradigm is the Intel chip for the 21st-century church and the Windows system of the 21st-century church."

Now ask yourself this. Why is Ricks book so accepted by the world? Im speaking about non Christians here major corporations and all. A secular major corporation would not accept a book that prosteltizes their employeess. They would be afraid that a book would offend possibly Muslim or atheist employees or non-Christian employes's
And don't forget what what New Ager Leornard Sweet states in The New Yorker article "The Cellular Church" by Malcolm Gladwell

"The Best of the evangelical tradition is that you don't plan your way forward--you prophesy your way forward," the theologian Leonard Sweet say's. Rick's prophesying his way forward."
Earlier in the article Rick told his publishers "You guys don't understand," Warren told them. "This is a hundred-million-copy book."
Slick Rick Warren must have learned a thing or two from his ex-Buddist/false teacher buddy Paul Yonggi Cho.

Cho is well aware of his link to occultism, arguing that if Buddhists and Yoga practitioners can accomplish their objectives through fourth dimensional powers, then Christians should be able to accomplish much more by using the same means. (Paul Yonggi Cho, The Fourth Dimension, vol. 1 (South Plainfield, NJ: Bridge Publishing, 1979), 37, 41)

"You create the presence of Jesus with your mouth ... He is bound by your lips and by your words ... Remember that Christ is depending upon you and your spoken word to release His presence." (Paul Yonggi Cho, The Fourth Dimension, Volume One (So. Plainfield, NJ: Bridge Publishing, 1979), 83)
Cho's concept of fourth-dimensional thinking is nothing short of occultism. In his best-selling book "The Fourth Dimension", Cho unveils his departure from historic Christian theology and his entry into the world of the occult. Cho lists four steps in his incubation formula: 1) Visualize a clear-cut goal or idea in your mind; 2) have a burning desire for your objective; 3) pray until you get the guarantee or assurance from God that what you desire is already yours; 4) speak or confess the end result into existence. ((Hank Hanegraaff, Christianity in Crisis, 1993 citing Paul Yonggi Cho, The Fourth Dimension, Volume One (So. Plainfield, NJ: Bridge Publishing, 1979), 9-35; vol. 2, 18-33)
Rick Warrens other buddy (who profoundly influenced Warren) Robert Schuller wrote the foreward to Cho's book.
In the foreword to Cho's best-known book, The Fourth Dimension, Robert Schuller writes of visualization, "Don't try to understand it. Just start to enjoy it! It's true. It works. It tried it. Thank you -- Paul Yonggi Cho -- for allowing the Holy Spirit to give this message to us and to the world."

Or what the heck Rick may just use his tried and true heavy handed man made marketing plan.

Purpose Driven Life does not offend unbelievers.
Ask yourself why.

I can see it now under the purpose driven golden arches at Saddleback
400,000 pastors from 162 nations served
millions deceived

Sunday, September 25, 2005

Multi-sensory worship

Today at church I spoke with our youth pastor (who is a friend of mine) about what he is advertising as multi-sensory worship. I was concerned that he would bring a labyrinth in. I was told that he had visited a Christian labyrinth outside San Francisco and found it surrounded by wickedness. So he would not initiate a labyrinth here at our church. Which was good because I told him even though I loved him I would oppose him on any labyrinth and come out of the gate with my hair on fire at mach 2.
Then we went on to talk about multi sensory worship. He said he just wanted to get the kids engaged and involved hands on because many of them just fell asleep during service and teaching. He also mentioned many kids want to go back to the churches older traditions.
I offered him this idea-about the churches older traditions.
If you really want kids to have a multi sensory worship experience perhaps throw them into a 10 foot by 12 foot cell with only hay and straw on the dirt floor for toilet facilities. No electric -open window -no blanket. Than let some rats loose on the floor and feed them only gruel (or grits) stale bread and water. Than perhaps stick some kind of maniac using coarse language in the cell next to them. (perhaps stick Anne Lamott next to them using Emergent church lingo and language she's always needing a gig)
Then tell them they need to sing songs of praise and worship to Jesus Christ (any style) without musican's among all this chaos.
Now that's a real New Testament experience. Paul and Silas as well as all the apostles and followers of Jesus went through this on a week to week sometimes day to day basis.
He just kind of sat there with his mouth open. I mentioned that many Christians all around the world go through this multi sensory worship experience everyday.
I did let him know it probably wouldn't be a good idea to beat and whip the kids before putting them in their cells.
Multi sensory worship as a thing started in a church called Ginghamsburg . Folks I've been to this church because it is close to where I lived in Ohio. It is the only church where I have ever walked out in the middle of a service the first time I was there. And this is when I was a baby Christian.
To the best of my knowledge Kim Miller started this stuff- creating God experiences.
Paul had some Experiences he bragged about.
Look at 2 Cor 11: Paul was robbed, stoned, beat with rods,faced danger from his own people, went hungry, thirsty,cold, and shivered without having enough clothes. Given 39 lashes, shipwrecked and the list goes on.
We ought to all hang our heads in shame that our God experiences are nothing more than laser, a good house band, and some candles.
While Christian in China often have a life expectancy of 3 days,
What kind of worship experience are you looking for .
Is it real?
Or is it smoke and mirrors?

Saturday, September 24, 2005

The Purpose Driven Trojan Horse-Walking Around in a State of HUH?

Recently I sat down to watch a movie with my wife on television. As the movie played I noticed annoying little mini commercials being played in the lower left hand screen. One was a graphic portraying a pit crew changing tires on a race car, then it showed the driver jumping in to race the car off your screen. Another one advertised a movie that would be on next week. Of course no sound played as the mini commercial ran but it really distracted away from that was playing on the TV screen. HUH?
Walk into a store and try to figure out the proper toothpaste to buy. Before it was simple choices. Now I like having choices but remember the days when the choices meant Colgate-Crest -or Ultrabrite. HUH?
Now even within the brands you have toothpaste's that make your teeth more white and remove tartar. You can buy brands with mouthwash in the toothpaste. Literally rows of choices. I was in a grocery store two days ago shopping and saw a old man shopping for some jello. He told me he was confused over all the different weights and wanted to get the best buy on sugar free jello. I helped him a bit, he thanked me but said he wanted to look a little longer. When I was ready to get in line for check about twenty minutes later I noticed the old man was still in the jello aisle looking at all the boxesHUH?
Cellphones now make it available for us to be interrupted in the middle of whatever we are doing so someone may speak to us.Ever been in a long line at the store when someone is getting ready to pay and they get a phone call, and are then oblivious to the clerk trying to collect their money and move the line? How ever did we live before without all this?
I know people who will sit at a computer , while watching TV, and carrying on a conversation. They call this multi-tasking. I call it not paying attention to any one thing. Something is bound to suffer.HUH?

Christianity is suffering from this as well. We have so much stuff available to us we very seldom will just sit down and read the Bible without a study aid or purpose driven something.
So what is it about Rick Warren that makes us go HUH?
Could it be that Rick Warren states that Robert Schuller is not his mentor in Richard Abanes book about Rick Warren.
But yet writes a article titled "Learn to Love Yourself" for Ladies Home Journel and never mentions the name of Jesus and the first line is" Self Esteem still wobbly after all these years?"
From a article in Christianity Today "Schuller, though, won them over. "He had a profound influence on Rick," Kay says. "We were captivated by his positive appeal to nonbelievers. I never looked back."
Rick Warren has stated church growth is not about the numbers. Yet brags constantly about numbers and growth.
Rick Warren states this in Christian Retailing magazine"None of us feel we are smart enough to figure out how to make a devotional book by a pastor sell 25,000,000 copies."
Then states in The New Yorker Magazine
"You guys don't understand."Warren told them. "This is a hundred million copy book:"
(Warren talking to his publishers before PDL was published)
In Rick Warrens best selling self help book The Purpose Driven Life Rick opens out with the sentence "It's not about you."
And then proceedes to put the whole books focus on you.
In Ladies Home Journel Rick Warren states " God accepts us unconditionally, and in His view we are all precious and priceless."
If God accepts us unconditionally why did He have to send His son Jesus to die a horrible bloody death on the cross?
Ricks statement is a lie. There are conditions that God sets on us. We need to accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior or we go to hell.
on page 66 of PDL Rick writes "Worship isnt for our benefit! We worship for God's benefit. When we worship, our goal is to bring pleasure to God, not ourselves."
But yet Saddleback is a huge entertainment center centered on pleasing men not God check this link and see the various worship venues (insert entertainment when Rick mentions worship)
Notice it states TRY one of our worship venues. Rick movement is centered on mans needs and wants not Gods worship.

I would say that Rick Warren preaches another jesus but I very seldom hear Warren speak about Jesus in the many articles he writes or TV shows Rick is on. Is Rick ashamed of Jesus?
Warren actually encourages people not to sing songs of praise and commitment to Jesus because it may make the unsaved feel uncomfortable (Purpose Driven Church page 291)

And in truth the unsaved will never ever feel comfortable in the presence of a Holy God.
Do I think the unsaved feel comfortable at Saddleback and other Purpose Driven churches.
You bet I do.
Perhaps because Gods presence is no longer there.

Here is a pretty good description of Rick Warrens God in a article by The New Yorker titled "The Cellular Church"
(speaking of The Purpose Driven life)
"It is tempting to intrepret the book's message as a kind of New Age self-help theology. Warren's God is not awesome or angry and does not stand in judgement of human sin. He's genial and mellow. "Warren's God'wants to be your best friend.' and this means, in turn, that God's most daunting property, the exercise of eternal judgement, is strategically downsized.
Rick Warren's latest comment on hell.

Rick Warren – “Making a Difference with Your Life”
40 Days of Peace # 1, Sept 17-18 2005
Message at Saddleback Church
"Let me tell you what my definition of hell would be. Hell would be if God were to show me all the blessings in life that I’ve missed because I was selfish or afraid. To me that would be hell. I missed that just because I was afraid, just because I was insecure.”

With all this confusion where do you think Warren gets his wisdom?
James 3:15-16 "This wisdom descendth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, and devilish. For where envying and strife is, there is confusion, and every evil work."

And if you think Warrens man made movement is not causing strife read all the other articles here and you can see where ever this guy and his movement goes the church lowers their standards. Which conflicts with the Bible.
The church is called assembly or congregation which in Greek is ekklesia which means "called out from. "
We are called out from this world. But Rick wants to call your church into the world. A purpose driven entertainment center.

Rick Warren articles , books and statements often contradict itself.
God is not the author of confusion. God will not make you go HUH. The Holy Spirit will lead and guide you into all truth.

You be the judge of who built this Purpose Driven Trojan Horse.

Tuesday, September 20, 2005

The Purpose Driven Trojan Horse-Your Fired-Getting Rid of Faithful Bereans Purpose Driven Style.

First of all I want to preface that I want you to read all the articles and links I post-search the scriptures to see if what is stated is true, ask the Holy Spirit to led you into all truth about everything posted here. If you find that it is not backed up in scripture-regect it totally. People would say that entertainment (what Rick Warren calls music) is a gray area in the Bible. I say it is not. The Bible teaches us not to be of the world. It actually states that if you are a friend of the world you are a enemy of God. That goes for entertainment, television and bringing man made business practices into the church. As Rick Warren does duplicating the wordly efforts and business practices of Peter Drucker.
note that this is from Forbes magazine the Homepage For The Worlds Business Leaders

So what does it mean to be a faithful Berean? It simply means you read the Bible for yourself to see if what someone is saying is true.
I grew up in the Catholic church. I went to Catholic grade school and high school. I recieved a wonderful education but in all my years in school I was never encouraged to read the Bible for myself. Now I am not saying that the Catholic church believe only a elite few can really be lead into all truth and thats why they have a Magesterium.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church, 85 states that authentic interpretation of the Word of God is entrusted to the living Magisterium of the Church, namely the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter. Catholic theology places the authoritative interpretation of scripture in the hands of the corporate judgment of the Church rather than the private judgment of the individual.
The Bible however contradicts this belief in the verse i started the post with.

Well does Slick Rick believe that we should have faithful Bereans in the church?
All I can say is that is Ricks man made purpose driven movement, in the five tasks Rick proclaims that Christ ordained for his church to acccomplish. No where do I find in Ricks five purposes a statement encouraging believers to study the Bible for themselves to see if what Rick says is true.
Its just not there folks.

Ricks quote about Catholics
"And, you know, growing up as a Protestant boy, I knew nothing about Catholics, but I started watching ETWN, the Catholic channel, and I said, "Well, I'm not as far apart from these guys as I thought I was, you know? "
Check this whole article out
(Spoiler alert have a barf bag ready when you read this, Warrens constant bragging will make you want to puke)

So does Warren want you to read the Bible for yourself and how do they plan to eliminate you from your own church on purpose?
Lets see if bringing Bibles to church to see if the speaker is stating what is true is practiced at Ricks own church Saddleback.
Here is a exchange between a friend of mine who talked about his recent trip to Saddleback and Purpose Driven Poster boy (unofficial spokesman for Rick Warren) Richard Abanes (sounds like Adonis according to Richie).
(Sorry here- trying to fill my sarcasm quota for this post in one sentence)
Here is the exchange-
HILL'S #1: I learned if you take your Bible into the service you will be greeted immediately by an associate pastor, asking how your trip to California has been.
RESPONSE: Obviously, this is a sarcastic jab at Saddleback—and it's not true. I do not get instantly greeted as an out-of-towner just because you have your Bible. My goodness, people. Clearly, Hill is making reference to the fact that few people bring their Bible's with them to Saddleback. And yet we actually have a poster at Hill's blog who wrote: "Pretty bad when you look like a tourist if you have a Bible."I suppose it's possible that someone very observant might have wondered if Scott Hill was a visitor because he had a Bible, but it's not likely. Even if such a thing actually DID happen, exactly where does it say in scripture that in order to PROVE how holy you are, or PROVE how godly you are, or PROVE how much you know the Word of God, you must actually be toting around a glimmering Bible with you at church so everyone can see it? Sounds rather prideful to me and for some people might be an external sign of holiness. I saw this ALL THE TIME at Calvary Chapels—hey, man, if you had your Bible with you, you were part if the "IN" crowd, but no Bible got you dirty looks like "Oh, what's wrong with him?" or "Hey, she has no Bible, she might be trouble." Puh-lease.Here's a thought—how about actually LIVING what's inside the Bible and letting your faith be seen THAT way, rather than just making sure you're carrying a Bible at church (James 2:18 ). When/where did the physical act of carrying a Bible to church become the mark of Christianity??

Anyway come to what ever conclusion you like. I don't think Slick Rick and his gang want you looking to Gods word to see if what they say is true.

So if you are a faithful Berean are they going to be out to get you once your church has been assimilated by the purpose driven Borg. Or is resistance truely futile?
here is a definition of the Borg for those of you who do not watch Star Trek.

The Borg are a race of cyborgs in the Star Trek fictional universe. 'Borg' is simply short for cyborg. They are known both within and without Star Trek fandom for their relentless pursuit of that which they wish to assimilate or acquire, their rapid adaptability to almost any form of defense, and their ability to continue functionally after what may seem a devastating or even fatal blow as if nothing at all had happened, and as such have become a powerful symbol in popular culture for any seemingly unstoppable force against which "resistance is futile".

Sorry to use a secular term but it surely fits Rick (Locutus) Warren-

Here are some tidbits from Chuck McAllister "
"How to transition an established church "
(my rant-Look at that title folks does that reek of arrogance and make ya mad. What if the established church was established on Gods Word?-not the Book of Rick. Chaos can only follow.)
anyway here are the quotes
Start a gradual worship style transition (This was number one on the list-not pray and seek God, but the focus is on changing the music-just insert the word entertainment here when PD people say music-refer to my article on Ricks low view of music. Changing good God honoring music into music that entertains unbelievers is going to upset folks who want to worship God in spirit and in truth).
next quote-
"Possibly, you will face challenges from staff, particularly those who were present when you arrived. You must deal with those swiftly and decisively, preferably putting those issues to rest before you start the transition process. It will mean dismissing staff if they do not "buy in" to the transition. "
(To me this says the churchs transistion is no longer open to discussion and it doesnt matter if you think it stacks up with Gods word or not. And if you don't buy in "your fired".)
Next quote
"You must remember that the transition will not please everyone - that would be impossible. Do not abandon your vision to appease a person or even a group of persons who choose to leave. God will send other leaders to take their place. "
(Notice the focus is on your vision. Self centered-not God centered. And if your vision doesnt jive with Gods word-yes you will be sent other leaders. Will they be sent from God? Not a chance. And with the focus on changing music being the most important thing here I can with authority say that this vision is not from God because it does not align with scripture-again when they say music invert the word entertainment which is focused on man's pleasure not focused on pleasing God.)
Next quote
"However, the transitioning church cannot be seeker-driven, seeking to exalt the seeker above Jesus Christ. Only Jesus deserves the honor of our focus in worship and life. As He is exalted, He will draw men to Him. The spiritually minded members of your church will understand this.
( this may seem to dispute the point Im trying to make but I know from reading literally hundreds of pages on what these folks say against what they actually do constatly,contradict's what they publically state- check this link for further explaination
next quote
". It is essential that the church purpose reflect the five purposes of a New Testament church: Worship, Discipleship, Fellowship, Evangelism, and Ministry. "
(Keep in mind this is what Rick Warren thinks are the five purposes of a New Testament church is. Within these five purposes stated in Rick Warrens book Purpose Driven church does it encourage you to read and seek God for yourself in the Bible.)
next quote
"One of the major problems in many transitioning churches is the monthly business meeting. As part of the structure change, it is important to move the church away from the need to vote on everything and to trust their leaders to make certain decisions. For those churches finding it difficult to implement an annual business meeting, one alternative is to transition to quarterly business meetings with the idea that you will later move to the annual business meeting."
(Top down managment-your opinion and feedback is not important-what more needs to be said here-again refer to articles I have posted on the Shepherding Movement and Bob Mumfords gang of five)
Next quote
"The senior pastor must assume full responsibility to hire or fire staff.This alleviates the need for a personnel committee and helps the staff understand how the chain of supervision operates. The church does not vote on either the establishment of a staff position or who occupies that position. Each staff member is evaluated on the anniversary of their arrival on staff, and the pastor determines the raise they will receive for the next year. The staff raises are divided into two parts: a merit raise and a cost-of-living raise, with a total percentage cap that is written into the budget. "
(This is not a biblical view because the church was run by elders -plural. Many churches I know have a exectutive or associate pastor who does the actual elimination of staff so the head or senior pastor does not have to look like a bad guy. Even though the word may have come and for sure it needs senior pastor apporoval.Many big companies are run like this-the New Testament church however was not run like this. People have decided that the ways of man are better than the ways God has taught in his word.)
Final quote-
"The senior pastor assumes responsibility for the overall vision and direction of the church."
(Sounds like a pope to me)

The average pay for a worship leader these days is between 19 and 40 thousand per year. I know in our church this includes a generous vacation with pay. This pay is also for churches between 700-5000.
Our church alone pays out over a million in salaries to staff.
In the big entertainment centers like Lakewood, Willow Creek and Saddleback Im sure its more.
Its big business with church these days and many families are dependent on the church because they work for the church.
Do you think someone will make waves if their salary is online?
So with the Church Growth Movement yes your numbers will increase( because of the entertainment and show you provide) but so will the bondage of not checking the scriptures to see if what is being spoken aligns with the word of God.

Here is the article I quoted from in its entirety. I would encourage you to read the whole thing(make sure I didnt take anything out of context). And then balance that with whats actually being done in Purpose Driven and Entertainment centers they call church these days.
You need to decide for yourselves what this movement really is. I have already decided.
The article

Here is also a link to Chuck McAllisters church-check the fruit and see for yourselve is it mandriven and wordly or God centered. I encourage you to chech both links for yourself.

Sunday, September 18, 2005

Check the fruit of this Purpose Driven movement

The best way to see if what I say is true is to check every dot and inch of what I say and put it in the light of Gods Holy Word.
If it doesn't stack up reject it- I encourage that.
Also check the fruit on the tree.
The best one to see what kind of fruit this movement produces is Rick Warrens unofficial spokesman Richard Abanes.
Go to Richards website look at the many pictures and the pics of Richard on the Big Screen at Saddleback .
Also check what Richard wrote about himself here.
You decide for yourselves if this is man-centered fleshy fruit or not.

Matthew 15:8 "This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

Another great article about the fruit I believe this movement produces.

Good source of many articles on this movement

I would like to end with this verse
Matt 7:17"Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

Next article The Purpose Driven Trojan Horse-Your Fired-Getting Rid of Faithful Bereans Purpose Driven Style.

Saturday, September 17, 2005

The Purpose Driven Trojan Horse-Slick Rick sez the request lines are now open

Galatians 1:10 "For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ".
2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having inching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Remember Rick Warren (as stated in Richard Abanes book) wanted to be a guitar playing rock star.
Then he played Purple Haze for a captive audience when announcing his Global peace plan.
For those of you that are not familar with the song "Purple Haze" its a song by dead rock star Jimi Hendrix. The song glorifies the drug known as acid which is a mind altering drug. For a famous Christian personality to play even seconds of this song after worship music has been played is beyond me. Some say Rick was just joking around.
I don't think he was I think Rick was specifically after a audience responce.
And he got it.
Shame on you Rick Warren.
Now lets see where Rick gets his true chops, and lets see what he wants to share with you and your churches.

From The Purpose Driven Church page 282
" Some people assume that the "hymns" mentioned in Colossians 3:16 refer to the same style of music we call "hymns" today. The truth is, we don't know what their hymns sounded like. But we do know that the New Testament churches used the style of music that matched the instruments and culture common to that day". end quote
SCrreech-put the brakes on go read that again-
In one sentence he is stating that we don't know what their hymns sounded like-then in the next sentence he states the style of music matched the instruments and culture common to that day.
We dont know what they sounded like but we know the style.
Ricks first sentence was correct. His second sentence was to forward Rick Warrens agenda not based on any actual facts.
Iv'e learned in readin Rick Warrens writings you need to be careful because Rick flip flops a lot.
Rick will take bible verses out of context (something he is critized the most for ) or resort to using urban legends and half truth so he can fulfill his purposes.
Which could be a hostile takeover of your church.
Purpose Driven Church page 290
"When I took our music preference survey, I couldnt find a single person who said, "I listen to organ music on the radio."
Purpose Driven Church page 291
"Unchurched visitors often feel awkward during the congregational singing portion of your service. Since they don't know the songs, and the songs speak of praise and commitment to Jesus, they are forced to stand there while everyone else sings. This is especially embarrassing in a small church, because everyone notices if you aren't singing. On the other hand, unchurched vistors feel very comfortable listening to performed music, if it is a style which they can relate."
Before I comment on Ricks above immature statements lets look at what Gods word says in Matt 10:32
"But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven."
In Slick Ricks first statement lets burn up that little strawman. This must be Ricks personnal preference because number one I have never even heard of a organ music radio channel. Why doesnt Rick just say "I dont like traditional church music." Even though I see Saddleback has added a traditional music in one of their entertainment tents. I see the request lines are still open. Pipe organ, Hammond B3, all have great uses in even todays modern music. Even the rock band Deep Purple was known for its use of a Hammond. And most gospel music would be dead in the water without a Hammond. Now whether it is a Hammond or other another kind of organ it still has a wonderful use in church. Rick just prefers guitar driven music. So should you then I guess.
Rick states in Purpose Driven Church on page 290 "You must decide whether your church is going to be a music conservatory for the musical elite or whether your church is going to be a place where common people can bring unsaved friends and hear music they understand and enjoy."
Here Rick again is trying to get you to lower your standards in making music for a Holy God. The Rolling Stones sells millions of albums and still sells out concerts but should we be initating them or striving for something better because we want to honor God by playing skillfully.Worship leader Paul Baloche I know teaches of playing skillfully to bless God, as God is the goal of worship.
The goal of music is not to tickle the ears of the unsaved.Its not for our enjoyment as well the focus is on a Holy God who we honor by playing skillfully-Psalm 33:3
And yes I know that Paul taught at Saddleback.
I hope they listened.
Lets look at the next statement. (from Purpose Driven Church page 291 quoted above)
We don't want to sing praises and songs about commitment to Jesus because we may embarrass unbelievers? What?? Is that just a man driven self esteem nutball comment or what?

And people should not notice who is singing and who is not if they are worshipping in spirit and in truth. God should have their full attention.

To have a famous Christian personality make statments like these really freaks me out. The church in America is in trouble if we don't wake up.
Now lets look at Ricks next statement- (Prefered use of performed music)
Not only do we need to use performed music (Slick Ricks word for entertainment which is what he is really describing here).And not only that but we have to entertain unbelievers with the music they like to make them happy. What??? Where is the verse in the Bible that backs that practice up??
Let me go look-
Hold on-
Shazaam-- its not there.
Any musician that would be part of such deception should hang their head in shame.

Look at Genesis 25:27-34 and look at how Esau let his flesh get the best of him and gave up his birthright for a bowl of soup. Something to think about when reading Warrens writings.

Here is more on Ricks agenda that will cause confusion in your church (or result in a hostile takeover).
from Chuck McAllisters article How to transition an established church from Uncle Ricks Toolbox
" Gradually de-emphasize the piano and organ while introducing other instruments like guitars and drums.
This is a Trojan Horse to make your music more guitar driven. Which to me is just really a bunch of posers tempting you to make changes because they have a agenda.
Piano and organ musically sounds great in any style of music. There agenda is to take away the trappings of traditional music and replace them with a rock band.

Music has been dumbing down for a long time both secular and Christian. And Slick Rick and his gang now that if they need to get you on board and sell you more Purpose Driven stuff you will need a praise band in your church.
And guitar driven music is just easier to play (mindless and talentless often) but it means you to can rock like the flock at Saddleback.

What Rick Warren and other immature Church Growth gurus still don't realize is that music in church is not about us. And its certainly not about performing ever.If you have to jump around, use laser's, have the band come from under the stage use big screen anything-the focus is on the players and not onb our Holy God. And you are simply not worshipping in spirit and in truth if you need to have all the stuff to stimulate you to worship. Your worship then is a lie and a farce. When we gather together as a church our music should be focused on our Holy God. (Mature Christian musicans and worshippers will know this)
Its not about us.
Its about God.
And I know Slick Rick may preach this .
But its not being practiced and written about in his books which again Rick tends to flip flop a lot. Makes you wonder why there is so much confusion following this guy.
Isnt it interesting as well that (maybe since Clinton) we use the word flip flop instead of lying.

If you need to have the type of music you like the most played for you or else you won't worship and sing God praises in church then you have a problem as well.
That also doesnt mean we take music that was inspired by the devil and expect people to worship a Holy God with it.
Just because we Christenized the lyrics.

Final comment and then we will close the chapter on music and Slick Rick.
page 285
"I will admit we have lost hundreds of potential members because of the style of music Saddleback uses. On the other hand, we have attracted thousands more because of our music".

Somebody pass Rick his bowl of soup.
Its not about the numbers Rick?
Yea right!

Next article on The Purpose Driven Trojan Horse-Your Fired learning to eliminate the Bereans

The Purpose Driven Trojan Horse-Rick Warrens low view of music

Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Rick Warren before he announced his Global peace plan-(from ASSIST News article
But before he made the announcement, he decided to have some fun and surprised the audience when he said, Ive always wanted to do in this stadium. He then sang an impersonation of Jimi Hendrixs hit song, Purple Haze. As the audience erupted into laughter, the church band joined in playing back up to it.

Excert from Richard Abanes(unofficial spokesman for Rick Warren) "Rick Warren and the Purpose that Drives Him page 38
"In fact , he wanted to be a guitar playing rock starreferringring to Rick Warren)

Sorry about getting this article up later than expected. I had a lot of information I had to go through. Plus most importantly I wanted to spend time in prayer and reflection with the Lord Jesus before I posted the article. So here goes.

Some folks who have reviewed Rick Warrens writings, teachings and books often refer to Rick as having the best intentions or well meaning. I don't want to assume this posteior. I don't know Rick and some of the others who have written comments like these don't know Rickhaven'te'nt met him as well. I don't want to assume anything about Rick just because he is famous and claims to be a Christian. I want to check the fruit of the ministry (not popularity-there idifferenceance). And the only way to examine fruit is to hold it up to the light of scripture.
It's been well documented that Rick bends scripture to say what he wants it to say as well as presenting a partial gospel (if any) in his writings and videos).
I would add that a partial gospel is really no gospel at all.

What does Warren think about music. I can only come to a reasonable conclusion by examing Ricks books as well as his actions. We also need to look at what Rick exposes other pastor to on such things as his Ministry toolbox articles as well as what Rick serves up at Saddleback.
Rick is a package deal The Purpose Driven church, Purpose Driven Life, and Transistioning by Dan Southerland was all a well thought out targetedtmarketingting plan.

I found it interesting in Abanes book about Warren "Rick Warren and the Purpose that Drives Him" that no where does it mention that Rick Warren was saved. We know that Rick grew up in church and had a preacher father. But no where in this book does it state when Rick Warren was saved.
Instead it offers this on page 38
" But everything started going in a different direction around 1970, just before his junior year in high school. Rick was working as a lifeguard at a Christian summer camp, where he saw other kids living how he wanted to live-in service to God. He prayed, God, if you're really alive, I want to know You."- end quote No where else in the book does it state that Rick Warren accepted Jesus as His Lord and Savior. I thought that was a important detail to leave out in a book that describes the purpose that drives Rick Warren.
Please come to what ever conclusion you want on this though.
Thats just something to think about as we examine Rick Warren and the fruit of his ministry.

When I had read that Rick Warren had played a part of Purple Haze in front of a huge audiencewasn'tasnt just the song selection (evil as that was) alone but what Rick was quoted as saying. "I've always wanted to do this in a stadium."
Then I read in Richies book about Rick wanting to be a guitar playing rock star. So I decided to pursue what Rick really thinks about music and its use in the church.
I ordered from our local library The Purpose Driven Church, and also read Chuck McAllisters article on Transistioning on Ricks toolbox. I have also debated Richard Abanes on the topic of worship. Abanes as well does not have a clue about music and its use in church.
here is a good article on music in the testamentment church.

Now of course not all of us will agree on musical styles. Some may call something rock merely because it had a 2/4 beat to it. Which in itself is not true because many different styles have similar beats. And all styles are not neutral. Some styles were inspired by the devil and his demons and will loose a spirit of anarchy and aggression.
Rick states in PDC "There is no such thing as "Christian music." There are only Christian lyrics."
Not true at all. If you buy into what Slick Rick states that would mean you could take a Marilyn Manson song put Christian lyrics to it and then play it in church.
Sadly this is what many current Christian bands do. Instead of looking to the Holy Spirit for inspiration they take the quick route and find a good hook (the catchy part of a song that you remember) and put it to Christian lyrics.
This not only exposes your congregation to possible a demonic spirit but also is just plain laziness.
Ricks own worship leader Rick Muchow does this in his song "Wonders of God."
The song has a beautiful intro and then they break down into the hook which sounds just like "You can call me Al" by Paul Simon.
I have to think that the Holy Spirit has something so much better than borrowing hooks from secular songs.
And then in Purpose Driven Church(pages 282, 283) to back up Ricks low view of music he parrots the old urban legends about Martin Luther, Charles Wesley and John Calvin. Again Rick making excuses (without sighting any resources from the myths he circulates) so Rick can do what Rick and his audience requests.
Lets examine these urban legends one by one.
Martin Luther- How many times have you heard or read that Martin Luther borrowed the tune from a popular drinking song and used it for his best-known hymn, "A Mighty Fortress Is Our God"? This myth hase been debunked numerous times in books on church music, yet we still hear it repeated by speakers who should have done better research.
Probably the best explanation for how this myth arose is found in David Music's brief note. "Getting Luther Out of the Barroom. As Music explains, early Luthern tunes that included two identical musical phrases followed by a third contrasting phrase were examples of a musical structure known as bar form.
We do not know who, upon reading that Luther wrote hymns in bar form began to spread the notion that Luther collected his hymn tunes when he visited the local bar. Germans in those days didnt even refer to drinking establishments as bars.
Luther him self said it best.
"And you, My young friend, let this noble and cheerful creation of God (music)commended to you. By it you may escape shameful desires and bad company. At the same time you may by this creation accustom yourself to recognize and praise the Creator. Take special care to shun perverted minds who prostitute this lovely gift of nature and of art with their erotic rantingings; and be quite assured that none but the devil goads them on to defy their nature, which would and should praise God its Maker with this gift, so that these.. purloin the gift of God and use it to worship the foe of God, the enemy of nature and of this lovely art.
Martin Luther did not think music was neutral.
Martin Luthers thoughts on using music for the youth.
"And these songs were arranged in four parts for no other reason than I wanted to attract the youth (who should and must be trained in music and other fine arts) away from love songs and carnal pieces and to give them something wholesome to learn instead, so that they can enter with pleasure into that which in good, as is befitting to youth.
In Martin Luthers songs he enjoyed arranging music for his young people to teach them the fundamentals of music theory, as well as an overall appreciation of good music.
Compare that to what Rick serves up at his own church Saddleback.
Here is a comment by a friend of mine who visited Saddleback.

"I found it comically interesting that at a junior high concert in one of Saddlebacks tents a group of 13 year olds approached the stage and asked the band if they could turn it down."

Now unto John Wesley-did he use secular music?
"The latest "tavern song" controversy was fueled during the summer by an article on the Methodist Web site by Dean McIntyre, director of United Methodist worship resources, at the denomination's headquarters in Nashville. It was titled, "Did the Wesleys Really Use Drinking Song Tunes for their Hymns?" and, just like that, the argument was renewed.
McIntyre said no, explaining that the story began long ago with a misunderstanding of the term "bar tune" - or "bar form," as it also is called. This is a poetic pattern from the Middle Ages using three or more stanzas, and somehow, along the way, things got mixed up.
Many popular hymns use the "bar tune" pattern, among them the Lutheran anthem "A Mighty Fortress is Our God."
How about John Calvin? From a article by Robert F Hull
" What is true of Luthers music is generally the case for John Calvin, as well, despite the claim that John Calvin "hired two secular songwrites to popularize his theology through popular music. I have not been able to discover who these songwriters were, nor, indeed anything at all to support this characterization, even after reading carefully the lengthy article on John Calvin in The New Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians."

So much for Ricks use of Urban legends to accommodate his views or excuses on music.
Rick makes some pretty amazing ungodly statements in Purpose Driven Church.

Page 280-281 " The style of music you choose to use in your services will be one of the most critical (and controversial) decisions you make in the life of your church. It may also be the most influential factor in determining who your church reaches for Christ and whether or not your church grows. You must match your music to the kind of people God wants your church to reach.
The music you use "positions" your church in your community. It defines who you are. Once you have decided on the style of music you're going to use in worship, you have set the direction of your church in far more ways than you realize. It will determine the kind of people you attract, the kind of people you keep, and the kind of people you lose.
If you were to tell me the kind of music you are currently using in your services I could describe the kind of people you are reaching without even visiting your church. I could also tell you the kind of people your church will never be able to reach." end of quote

When I first read these quotes on a friends blog in a article titled "Seeker Gymnastics"I got so angry I had to go take a walk.
Then I had to see these quotes for myself and not wanting to spend any money on Slick Rick I ordered the book Purpose Driven Church from my local library. I read the book and then I had to go take several long walks.
I still get hot when I read this.
This is coming from a guy(Rick Warren) who wanted to be a "guitar playing rock star"
. And then saw his dream come true at a event he promoted.
Rick Warrens statements here in Purpose Driven Church are apostate coming from a reprobate mind.
They deny the very effectiveness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the work and conviction of the Holy Spirit.
So if you don't play the right kind of music you will not reach people for Christ, or the music will determine who you reach for Christ?
What utter heresy.
None of Ricks statements listed above has any grounding in any scripture whatsoever. Its just not there.
Will your church grow if you do it Ricks way?
Good chance that you will soon have a lot of people in your building rocking out.
Who will grow into a bunch of carnal Christians (if indeed they get saved at all) who will need you to continue to feed their flesh in new and even more carnal ways as time progresses.
Thats a lot to do with why American Christianity is so weak.
From a church transistion article on Ricks toolbox
"You must practice extreme patience to help your church make the necessary change to a worship style that will directly impact those who do not know God. " end quote

There is no worship style of any kind that will directly impact those who do not know God."
People who do not know God cannot worship Him. Unbelievers should feel uncomfortable when a congreagation is worshipping God. And there is nothing wrong with that. It allows the Holy Spirit to work on hearts and convict people of their sin, and then show them their need for a Savior.
Thats is if you want to lead people to the Lord. Be nice and polite and loving-but hey let them feel uncomfortable.
If you listen to the advice Rick and his followers preach yea you'll get em rocking , and yes they will have emotional experiences because you get them up jumping. But isn't it more important to lead people to the Lord and let Him save them.
This cannot be duplicated by a emotionnal experience.
Im gonna go take a walk-
The next article will be-The Purpose Driven Trojan Horse-Slick Rick says "The request lines are now open.

Thursday, September 15, 2005

Purpose Driven Calf Update

Tim Challies Canadas own Bob Woodward has updated a article I posted earlier about Rick Warren here is the link it is a new article and a worthy read.
Another great article from the wondeful Fide-O blog called Seeker Gymanstics which again show Ricks camps use of word play to keep you in confusion.
Enjoy- check back tomorrow for the music article on Rick I'll be writing it late tonight. Ive been reading The Purpose Driven Church and have got to take a long walk before I write the music article

The Purpose Driven Golden Calf Part three " Making Church a business Part Two-Rick Warrens roots and Hostile takeovers.

Im going to share some links with you about Warrens mentors. And even though Rick Warren denies that Robert Schuller is his mentor Schuller keeps stating it publicly that he mentored Slick Rick. Warrens own wife stated that Schuller had a "profound influence" on Warren (another word for mentoring). And take a look at the Ladies Home Journal article Warren wrote
So here is one on Ricks roots-Robert Schuller.
Another of Ricks mentors is Peter Drucker.
Here are some Drucker links-first in Druckers own words from Forbes magazines and then some expose's on Drucker.
Articles on Drucker

As we have noticed Warrens man made movement has caused quite a confusion in the camp which Rick and his Pomeranian attack dog Richard Abanes would both deny-do you think Rick and Richard could have read this ?

from Plausible deniability is a political doctrine originally developed in the United States of America in the 1950s and applied to operations by the then newly formed Central Intelligence Agency The Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). Plausible deniability involves the creation of power structures and chains of command loose and informal enough to be denied if necessary. The idea was that the CIA (and, later, other bodies) could be given controversial instructions by powerful figures -- up to and including the president himself -- but that the existence and true source of those instructions could be denied if necessary; if, for example, an operation went disastrously wrong and it was necessary for the administration to disclaim responsibility. The doctrine had two major flaws. First, it was an open door to the abuse of authority; it required that the bodies in question could be said to have acted independently, which in the end was tantamount to giving them license to act independently. Second, it rarely worked when invoked; the denials made were rarely plausible and were generally seen through by both the media and the populace.

Here in reality is some of the confusion Rick Warrens movement has caused.

The purpose driven movement has initiated some hostile take overs. But hey thats big business for you

So what can you do to be a purpose driven resistor? Here is a website that will help you.

Most of all folks get focused on how God wanted His New Testament church set up/ Read the book of Acts. Contrary to the Urban Legend that the church was not meant for the saints but for sinners/seekers/unsaved folk check how God added to the church.
Acts 2: 47 "all the while praising God and enjoying the goodwill of all the people. And each day the Lord added to their group those who were being saved".
The church never has and never will have to lower its standards so we can entertain unbelievers and somehow trick them into Christianity. The Bible does not teach that even though Slick Rick does.
When unbelievers come through the church doors they should feel welcome and loved by us. We dont need mood lighting and cool music to make them feel comfortable. Maybe just maybe God does not want them to feel comfortable. They should in fact feel uncomfortable around the worship of a Holy God. Letting them feel uncomfortable will allow the Holy Spirit to convict them of their sin and need to be saved.
" John 16: 8-9" And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me."

Unbelievers will not and should not feel comfortable in the presence of a Holy God. So we do them a tremendous disservice by appealing to their flesh like Saddleback and many other churches do.
And yes many will walk away.
John 6:66 "From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him'.
And this was with our Lord Himself preaching.
Yes in many of the fad churches they may get a false sense of security because you got their flesh hopping with their own music and they said some sort of little prayer in the height of their emotion.
But its not real and as a church we need to protest this current trend to bring the world into the church.
We need to ask ourselves this question-Is our intentions to lead folks toward our Lord-or make a 10% commission?
Saddleback and Willow Creek have lowered the standards-God however has not.
Its the blind leading the blind.
And the ditch is deep.

Next article will be The Purpose Driven Trojan Horse and Rick Warrens low view of music.

Tuesday, September 13, 2005

The Purpose Driven Golden Calf Part Two "Making the church a business".

James 3 :15-16" This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. But where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work."
1 John 4:5-6 " They are of the world:therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us: he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error."

"Our goal is not to turn the church into a business," insists Warren, the founder of Saddleback megachurch in Lake Forest, Calif. (Taken from a article in Business week titled Earthly Empires

The in another article from a link on the same page titled "Evangelism Gone Entrepreneurial "
Question to Rick Warren
Q: Why do we see so much entrepreneurial activity among evangelicals?
(Rick Warren)A: We've always been entrepreneurial.

And here is the definition of entrepreneurial

entrepreneurial - of or relating to an entrepreneur; "entrepreneurial risks"
entrepreneurial - willing to take risks in order to make a profit

Again the sound of confusion and talking out of both sides of his mouth.

Now to be fair to Rick Warren he is not the only one that has made the church into a business.
Lets look at what TD Jakes has to say about this.

“I think that Jesus is the product,” says author and televangelist T.D. Jakes, who is currently bishop at The Potters House, a primarily African-American Pentecostal church in Dallas. “When the product is excellent, it doesn't require a big sales pitch.”
This is from a article titled " Do God and money mix?
Also has some lovely quotes from that smiling boy from Texas J.O.
But yet when Jesus sent his apostles out to preach He sent them with no money. Look at Luke 9.
Jesus had a robe not a wardrobe.
Peter and John were broke Acts 3:6
Paul had a day job as a tentmaker and supported himself and his companions Acts 18:3
And check out how Paul lived- I Corinthians 4:11-13
Many mega church pastors should hang their in shame after reading this. Many live way above most of their congregation.
Is this because of Gods blessing?
2 Peter 2:3 "In their greed they will make up clever lies to get hold of your money. But God condemened them long ago, and their destruction is on the way".

Lets look at another spirit that has been let loose in the Purpose Driven church-
Because in all this we need to learn Ephesians 6:12" For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

Rick and his camp have unleashed a spirit called Shepherding
here is a article about the original movement which was condemened as being unscriptural during the 70's
In a article by Chuck McAllister on Ricks toolbox titled "How to transition an established church" . In other words how to clone Saddleback. Here are a couple of quotes from that series.

"Possibly, you will face challenges from staff, particularly those who were present when you arrived. You must deal with those swiftly and decisively, preferably putting those issues to rest before you start the transition process. It will mean dismissing staff if they do not "buy in" to the transition. "

"The senior pastor must assume full responsibility to hire or fire staffThis alleviates the need for a personnel committee and helps the staff understand how the chain of supervision operates. "

Here is a link to the series of articles
There is nothing even remotely biblical about this. You won't find this kind of structure in the New Testement. Its just not there. Again this is the enemy just repackaging a movement that was condemed at large by the church in the 70's. Redressed -same spirit-not of God.
If you want to produce earthly fleshy fruit do church this way.
If not go back to your Bibles to see what structure Jesus through the Holy Spirit has put in place for His church.
The church was never made to be run by one man check the book of Acts for yourself and see how the church was run.
Plus these new mega pastors are accountable to no one. They may say they are but don't you believe it. They are corporate CEO's who surround themselves with people who had better not disagree with them. And if they do they will be sacked.
This is corporate America with stained glass windows, entertainment, and a message and a gospel that can't save anyone.

1 John 1:19 "These people left our churches because they never really belonged with us; otherwise they would have stayed with us. When they left us, it proved that they do not belong with us."

2 Thess 2:3" Let no man decieve you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a great falling away first, and that man of sin will be revealed, the son of perdition;"

The next article will be a continuation of this article titled "Making church a business Part Two Rick Warrens roots and Hostile takeovers."

Then we will get into "Sounds of singing in the camp? Rick Warrens low view of music in the church. More seeker driven confusion."

Tearing down the purpose driven Golden Calf-Part one "There is noise of war in the camp".

In this mini series it is my goal to give you information about Rick Warren and his man made movement. Then you need to act upon it as you choose. I also want to caution you and encourage you to hold everything I say up to the light of God's word. Because God's word is the only one that counts. And if I say anything that is in conflict with the Bible I would encourage you to reject it totally.
Exodus 32:17" And when Joshua heard the noise of the people as they shouted, he said to Moses, "There is a noise of war in the camp."
We know from the verse that as Moses and Joshua got closer what they heard that was a noise of war was actually singing. There was confusion here what was really going on.
Right now I want to focus on the confusion Slick Rick and his movement has caused.
You cannot really talk about Purpose Driven Life without talking about Purpose Driven Church and Transistioning by Dan Southerland as well as the transistioning article that Warren has on his website
Here are the problems I see that are caused in the church by this man made movement.
First why do I say that this is a man made movement? Why should we question what God seems to be blessing?
Well if sales seems to be a indicator of Gods blessing it would seem that God is blessing the sandals off Rick. Because this puppy has been on the best sellers list for 138 weeks now.
Is this Gods blessing.
No it is slick marketing read this article and you decide if Im right on this.
Rick Warren is a very good business man he is even now test marketing his PEACE plan that he plans to unleash on the world soon.
So whats the problem with all this?
Well the very first problem is Ricks own understanding of scripture. Rick takes scripture and molds it to suit his purpose instead of teaching scripture in the context it was written in. Word of Faith folk do this all the time. Its backward theology. You think up a point you want to make and then go back to the Bible and find scripture or portions of scripture to back up what you want to say. Not what the Bible teaches.
Thats the first part of the confusion.
The second part is Slick Rick very effectively markets his own products and aids to help you and encourager you to do things Ricks way so you can supposably have a healthy church. Look at these two links to see what confusion this causes in the church.
This is just a small amount of the confusion this movement has caused.
More to come in The Purpose Driven Golden Calf Part Two- Making the church a business

Saturday, September 10, 2005

Warren Bashing and tearing down the Golden Calf

Some people who point out errors in huge movements are often called bashers. I kinda like the name tag. Besides the fact I hit things for a living (Drums and percussion) I don't see anything wrong with tearing down a Golden Calf.
There is a differance between how and who you pick your battles with.
Steve Camp fights different battles than I do however some battles are the same. This goes for many other discernment ministries as well.
Those best equiped to fight the battles is where you have experienced things personally. Commenting from experience is often the best commentary because others can relate and it is taken from a insider point of view.
Plus I personnaly don't go after a big Christian personality that is still lifting up the name of Jesus and sharing His gospel.
I may disagree with Franklin Graham on many points but Franklin , faithfully, 90% of the times I have seen him on TV presents the gospel of Jesus Christ everytime no matter whats being discussed. Franklin always manages to get that on the air.
On the other hand goofs like Joel Osteen , TD Jakes, and Rick Warren seldom mention the name of Jesus. At least all of them had the opportunity to do so. The shows I heard them on JO and TD mentioned God but not Jesus. Warren mentioned God once but none of them shared the gospel of Jesus Christ while on the air. And thats when they have the largest crowd.
What America needs is not more goverment but we need Jesus Christ. America needs salvation through the saving blood of Jesus Christ.
And many of these big Christian personalities fail to use their camera time to share the gospel of Jesus Christ. Or even mention the name of Jesus.
Im not sure if JO mentions the name of Jesus in his new best selling book.

My final intent is to present the evidence in a honest and truthful way. And then let you decide.
I'm not asking anyone to leave their church because its Willow Creeked or Purpose Driven. In fact I go to a church that belongs to The Willow Creek Association and has been infected by The Purpose Driven Golden Calf.
I still go there. Change is always best done from the inside. Sometimes it gets to the point where we can't institute change and then we have to leave. I'm just not to that point yet. And even I do leave it does not mean that I don't love even those I disagree with. They will know we are Christians by our love.
So I've been preparing a series of articles (or rants) on why I think the Purpose Driven Movement is not of God but rather of man.
Men made the Golden Calf in Moses time and sometimes not everything is inspired by demons but by the flesh.
Lets look at what happened during Moses' time
Exodus 32:17-20
"And when Joshua heard the noise of the people as they shouted, he said to Moses, "There is a noise of war in the camp.But he said:"It is not the noise of the shout of victory, Nor the noise of the cry of defeat. But the sound of singing I hear." So it was , as soon as he came near the camp, that he saw the calf and the dancing. So Moses anger became hot, and he cast the tablets out of his hands and broke them at the foot of the mountain. Then he took the calf which they had made, burned it in the fire, and ground it to powder; and he scattered it on the water and made the children of Israel drink it."
The biggest noise in our camp we have heard the last couple of years has come from the Purpose Driven life movement.
Many have discovered that it is nothing but a man made golden calf.
Is Purpose Driven blessed by God because of its huge monetary success?
I will answer that question in my next post.
I also want to explore Warren and the PD movement very low view of music and its use in church.

I also want to explore how this movement as well as Willow Creek and other seeker churches have lowered the standards so much you can't even tell our fellowships apart from the world.
Im just going to present the facts here folks and how this move stands up against scripture.

Im not going to go after Joel Osteen to much because if you can't tell the differance between Joel and a motivational speaker you would hear at a Amway convention. Nothing I could post or say would convince you that this guy is not the pastor of Americas largest church -because in fact he is not a pastor at all.
Joel mentioned on TV that maybe God destroyed someones home in order to get them a bigger house. But then again this is the same guy who stated on TV that his marriage was good because his Victoria shopped at Victorias Secret. Thanks for that word picture Joel . Thank God this organization offers sexual addiction recovery classes.
This guy is really to dumb to even be called a false teacher or apostate. Or maybe thats part of JO's charm.
After you read the articles I will link and post you need to search the word of God to see if what I state is true.
You will also need to tear down the Purpose Driven Golden Calf yourself.
I can't do that for you.

Wednesday, September 07, 2005

The Simply Agape Project Music partners with Pastor Ken Silva and Apprising Ministries

From Pastor Ken Silva
"We officially voted unanimously to accept The Simply Agape Project as a Fully Integrated Auxiliary of CRBC under the direction of myself as pastor and president of Apprising Ministries. We will open a bank account called The Simply Agape Project under CRBC to receive funds which will be tax exempt through the 501 c3 tax id of CRBC. "

Please send all donations to
The Simply Agape Project
P.O. Box 340
Claremont, NH 03743
Your donations are tax deductable.
We will be on a great push to get the troops free CD's for this coming Veterans Day and Christmas.
You can still order the CD from the link on the right side of the blog.
We look forward to working with Ken and looking forward to what God will do with this new move of the ministyr.
Ken Silva also has written the forward to my upcoming book "Pass The Plate And Let Us Prey" (My Search for Black and White Christianity in a Gray Nation). The book will be avalailable before Christmas this year. I'll post a link once its published.
Tim Wirth

Great article by Cal Thomas

I don't know about you but Im about sick of seeing the pastors the media thinks represent Christianity in America on TV. Wealthy Christian personalities like T.D. Jakes, JO (Joel Osteen), and Rick Warren do not represent true Christianity in America. But only the low view of what Christianity is all about.
Thanks God there are a number of hard working pastors from all denominations who have rolled up there sleeves not looking for any TV time or press and just got in the thick of things and are doing the work of feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, and comforting the needy. I thought it was accurate to show self help gurus Dr Phil and Rick Warren together on Larry King.Hard to tell folks like Rick Warren, Joel Osteen and DR Phil apart these days. All mention God and self esteem maybe DR Phil should think about pastoring a church?
Even though I applaud Joel Osteens efforts to raise money and urge people to help and donate food, supplies and money why not open up the Compaq Center for folks to have a place to stay? What about thePotters House in Dallas for a place to crash?
The good thing about disasters is it always brings the true church into the trenches (not all over the TV just for the press).
Here's Cal's article.

Book Review: Richard Abanes book "Rick Warren and The Purpose that Drives Him

First of all I want to state that I am no fan of Richard Abanes or Rick Warren.I think Rick Warrens influence on evangelical Christianity has contributed to weakening the church here in America. I really do want to give this book a fair shake though because I have a lot of question about Rick Warren and what makes him tick. This is also a Abanes free zone so of course Richard is not my best buddy. One thing that has been a topic of debate is whether Richard Abanes is a self proclaimed best seller or does the guy actually have a book that made any best seller list. I have asked many people this question to which I have always gotten the reply that Richard has not had a best seller.
Actually Richard Abanes has been listed on a best seller list so I do stand corrected.
Richards book "Harry Potter and the Bible-The Menace behind the Magik" made the Christian Book Association best seller list at number 10 in 2003. This list is based on actual sales in Christian retail stores in the United States and Canada.

Now on with the review-
The many times that I have debated Richard online about a variety of topics and also observe Richard debate others one thing stands out.
Richard rarely replies to the hard questions. Abanes is very selective in how he answers and what he answers. So often things go unanswered. (Hold on I'm a little dizzy here)
Well the same goes for Abanes book on Rick Warren and The Purpose that drives him.
First of all with the large amount of critics Warren has Im surprised that Richard choose to just write a booklet about this. A mere 125 pages. This is kinda like eating a snack-no real meat here and the treat is just not very good.
The biggest criticism of PDL and Warren is Sloppy Hermeneutics (Interpretation of Scripture).
I call this backward theology-Word of Faith guys and gals are pro's at this.
You think up your own ideas and beliefs and then you proof text. You find scripture that will fit what you say instead of correct application of scripture.
Rick Warren also completely misinterprets and misapplies certain texts and uses 15 different translations for his own purpose.
None of these hard issues are addressed at all in the entire booklet.
Richard also does not go into why Warren uses bad translations like The Message.
But these are things you cannot defend because if you have to use 15 different translations to say what you want to say. The point is that you are saying what you want to say not what scripture truly teaches.
The Robert Schuller mentoring Rick Warren
Richard goes into this on page 29 by asking Rick if Schuller mentored him. Rick says no.
But the facts remain that Ricks own wife Kay states that Schuller had a "profound influence" on Rick. This is the same thing as being mentored.
Fact-you cant read Rick Warrens article in the Ladies Home Journal and not see Schullers influence on Warren.
Fact-Robert Schuller on a number of times still claims he mentored Rick Warren.
Even though Rick Warren and Robert Schuller may have some doctrinal disagreements you can see the effect Schuller had on Warren by the fruit Warren produces.
So we are to think that Rick Warren has not been mentored (ie influenced by Robert Schuller) because Rick states Schuller is not his mentor. Better yet-check the fruit on the tree here.
In matters of doctrine Schuller and Warren may differ maybe only slightly-again look at the Ladies Home journal article.
In ways of actually doing church-Schuller had a profound influence on Warren.
Abanes only presents weak strawman arguments on the Schuller -Warren connection.

On the Seeker-Sensitive issue church or entertainment Richard dedicates one whole paragraph to this pressing criticism of Warren.
But hey how do you defend Rick when on page 38 it states Rick wanted to be a guitar playing rock star.
This is a issue Abanes cannot and does not defend Warren in his book.
Rick showed that his dream had been granted by his fame and wealth when Rick made the awful choice of playing "Purple Haze" before a stadium crowd after worship music had been played.
Rick finally got to be a rock star and in his own words this is something he always wanted to do. And because of who he is he did it. Again check the fruit.
The Ken Blanchard association
A couple of comments with Rick stating that Ken Blanchard is not a very deep Christian. But yet Rick admits that Ken got the cart before the horse. Now its not up to Rick Warren to make Ken Blanchard quit doing Lead Like Jesus before Ken is ready. That's up to Ken.
But Im amazed at how Rick will expose thousands of other pastors to weak Christian teaching as well as false teaching like Paul Yonggi Cho who Rick promotes on
Guilt by association? You betcha. But remember Rick will fellowship with anybody.
Rick is quoting as saying"I see absolutely zero reason in separating my fellowship from anybody,he declared. Noting he has theological differences with many of the diverse denominations that invite him to speak, Warren added, That doesn't stop me from fellowshipping with them.
The Bible however does not teach this but teaches the need to seperate from false teachers 2 Corinthians 6:14-18 .
Rick's association with new ager Leonard Sweet author of Quantum Spirituality is not addressed at all in this book as well.
Abanes quotes a lot from Saddleback sermons which is fine but most folks don't go to Saddleback and can only respond to what Warren teaches in his books and tapes which many times conflicts or is watered down from what Abanes states Warren preaches at Saddleback.
Again Rick plays to the crowd-even though Jesus and the apostles never felt the need to water down the message for the sake of the culture.
Richards style and tone is often very condensending and immature. His sub title on page 117 is JUST TO MAKE YOU HAPPY. People who have debated Abanes online knows the tone of this guy is often "I know better than you do nah nah nah."
Rick Warrens message is summed up on two and a half pages. Which is the most accurate part of the book since Warrens message is indeed shallow and watered down.
Why has The Purpose Driven Church and The Purpose Driven Life sold so many copies?
The truth to this is best stated at this link.
The book was a runaway success due to clever marketing-not Gods blessing.
I don't really blame Richard Abanes for not asking Rick Warren hard questions Richard still goes to Saddleback and Rick is his pastor.Richard is not permitted to ask hard questions I believe. Even though Abanes has posted things he disagrees with Warren on his website. These disaggrements are not bought up in the book.
I also do not believe that Richard Abanes can be objective because he has made it his purpose to defend Rick Warrens faith all over the internet.
Rick Warren and the Purpose that Drives Him lacks any real depth and really consists of Abanes preaching to the choir.
No real answers to the real questions about Rick Warren and what drives him.

My Zimbio
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